The right's obsession with AOC

[6andcounting]

(02-26-2019, 11:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just checked the moring headlines.

Foxnews site has three photos and SIX stories about AOC on their main page.

CNN has zero.

No one wants her to have a platform in front of all Americans more than people/organizations that are right wing. 

And if I am an organization that hates Trump I'm going to bury the story about AOC wanting to spend 60 trillion more dollars than what physically exists between all of the world's currencies combined - in the next 10 years. 

[*bfine32*]

Hell, I woke up this morning not thinking about AOC at all. Much less count how many stories various news sources have about her.

[Benton]

(02-26-2019, 08:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, I woke up this morning not thinking about AOC at all. Much less count how many stories various news sources have about her.

AOCDS

Good, bad, or crazy, the alt-right is doing to AOC what the far left did to DJT. And what the alt-right did to Obama. And what the far left did to Bush. 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(02-26-2019, 08:47 PM)Benton Wrote: AOCDS

Good, bad, or crazy, the alt-right is doing to AOC what the far left did to DJT. And what the alt-right did to Obama. And what the far left did to Bush. 

Are you saying AOC is the next POTUS?

LOL

[Benton]

(02-26-2019, 09:28 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Are you saying AOC is the next POTUS?

LOL

No, not at all. I am saying if the alt-right doesn't quit trying to paint her as the pinnacle of socialism, they'll elevate her to a position she's not ready for or deserving of.

Trump was a moronic, unattached elitist who manipulated the system. He won.
Obama was a Kenyan terrorist whose entire purpose was to promote Communism. He won.
Bush was a drug fiend riding name recognition and billionaire buddies.  He won.

If the alt-right keeps pushing AOC as the anti-Trump, she'll be elevated to a place undeserving. Whether that's more of a role in Congress or something in the executive branch, I have no idea. But both sides have made it clear they'll turn out en masse to support whoever is not what they currently have.

[BmorePat87]

Not an AOC fan but this was an entertaining exchange.

I'm not sure why someone who was made an executive VP at their dad's company a year out of school thought they could lecture someone who was working at a bar a year ago on whether or not Americans wants to have jobs with good wages available to them...

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fires-back-at-ivanka-trump-i-worked-for-tips/


Turns out over 80% of the US wants a higher minimum wage, with 55% saying $15.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/426780-poll-a-majority-of-voters-want-a-15-minimum-wage

[*bfine32*]

(02-26-2019, 10:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Not an AOC fan but this was an entertaining exchange.

I'm not sure why someone who was made an executive VP at their dad's company a year out of school thought they could lecture someone who was working at a bar a year ago on whether or not Americans wants to have jobs with good wages available to them...

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fires-back-at-ivanka-trump-i-worked-for-tips/


Turns out over 80% of the US wants a higher minimum wage, with 55% saying $15.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/426780-poll-a-majority-of-voters-want-a-15-minimum-wage

A living wage is a right?

[GMDino]

(02-26-2019, 08:22 PM)6andcounting Wrote: No one wants her to have a platform in front of all Americans more than people/organizations that are right wing. 

And if I am an organization that hates Trump I'm going to bury the story about AOC wanting to spend 60 trillion more dollars than what physically exists between all of the world's currencies combined - in the next 10 years. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-40-trillion-cnntv/index.html

Quote:Progressive Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Sunday defended what could accrue to a $40 trillion price tag for progressive policy programs, including Medicare for all, over the next 10 years, citing the success in some European countries that have similarly developed health care models.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-money-exists-in-the-entire-world-in-one-chart-2015-12-18

Quote:Ever wonder how much money there is in the world?



The answer is complicated, which you might expect, but not because of the difficulty of tallying up all the rather large numbers. Rather, it’s more about which parameters are used to define “money.”


“The amount of money that exists changes depending on how we define it. The more abstract definition of money we use, the higher the number is,” said Jeff Desjardins, an editor of Visual Capitalist, who put together an infographic to answer this question back in 2015 and recently updated it as money continues to take on a different meaning.


“Are the abstractions created by Central Banks really money? What about gold, bitcoins, or other hard assets?” he asks.


For purists, who believe “money” refers only to physical “narrow money” (bank notes, coins, and money deposited in savings or checking accounts), the total is somewhere around $36.8 trillion. If you’re looking at “broad money,” which isn’t just physical money and includes any money held in easily accessible accounts, the number is about $90.4 trillion.


But for those preferring an even broader interpretation, including bitcoin BTCUSD, -0.26%  , ethereum and other cryptocurrencies, plus above-ground gold supply, and funds invested in various financial products like derivatives, the amount is in the quadrillions.

This is what a quadrillion looks like written out: 1,000,000,000,000,000.


Funds invested in derivatives alone total at minimum $544 trillion, and the high-end estimate is $1.2 quadrillion. In fact, there is more money in derivatives than in all the stock markets combined, which is a comparatively paltry $73 trillion. The U.S. accounts for the biggest slice of that global market cap pie, thanks to companies like Apple Inc. AAPL, +0.06%  , Alphabet Inc. GOOGL, +0.42% and Microsoft Corp MSFT, +0.69%


Investment in commercial real estate, often the most visible symbol of wealth, pales in comparison to stocks or derivatives at $29 trillion.


As for money owed by every single person and country in the world, the grand total is $215 trillion, with some 33% of it borrowed in the last decade.



And despite an explosive year for bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, as an asset class, crypto clearly has a long way to go. The value of all bitcoin in circulation is estimated in this graphic at $100 billion (bitcoin’s market cap is now over $160 billion, according to CoinMarketCap). That’s a staggering rise from the tiny dot bitcoin represented on the 2015 version of this graphic... but, still, a proverbial drop in the bucket.

[BmorePat87]

(02-26-2019, 10:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A living wage is a right?

Solid take away.

[*bfine32*]

(02-27-2019, 01:10 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Solid take away.

Oh, I'm sure it was nuanced. But that's right about the point were I stopped reading the post where AOC set Ivanka straight. 

[BmorePat87]

(02-27-2019, 01:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I'm sure it was nuanced. But that's right about the point were I stopped reading the post where AOC set Ivanka straight. 

It's not really nuanced.

I pointed out that that Ivanka, who was born in wealth and has been handed jobs by her father, was wrong about people not supporting minimum wages, much less a $15 minimum wage, and that challenging someone who has had a working class job on the matter wouldn't go over well. 

It's just in your nature to then ask a random question to turn the discussion into something of your choosing rather than address the main point. And, yes, I know that AOC said it's a right, so you're going to get hung up on it being the most relevant thing to take away from that post, but I've made the decision to not entertain your repetitive horseshit. 

I'm sure your response will be quite snarky and lacking substance, so you can save yourself the effort and not even reply to this post. 

[*michaelsean*]

(02-26-2019, 10:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Not an AOC fan but this was an entertaining exchange.

I'm not sure why someone who was made an executive VP at their dad's company a year out of school thought they could lecture someone who was working at a bar a year ago on whether or not Americans wants to have jobs with good wages available to them...

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fires-back-at-ivanka-trump-i-worked-for-tips/


Turns out over 80% of the US wants a higher minimum wage, with 55% saying $15.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/426780-poll-a-majority-of-voters-want-a-15-minimum-wage

Probably shouldn't celebrate sending 25,000 jobs packing then.

[BmorePat87]

(02-27-2019, 09:56 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Probably shouldn't celebrate sending 25,000 jobs packing then.

Maryland is happy to take those jobs, but I understand that there's legitimate criticism in the richest man in the world being given $3b by the government when that neighborhood has serious infrastructure needs. 

There was criticism in our state over our governor not working with VA and DC to submit a joint proposal to Amazon given that the proposed location would benefit all three governments, meaning the burden shouldn't have fallen on just one to pay for the incentives.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-27-2019, 10:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Maryland is happy to take those jobs, but I understand that there's legitimate criticism in the richest man in the world being given $3b by the government when that neighborhood has serious infrastructure needs. 

There was criticism in our state over our governor not working with VA and DC to submit a joint proposal to Amazon given that the proposed location would benefit all three governments, meaning the burden shouldn't have fallen on just one to pay for the incentives.

I understand the criticism, although for me it's a different reason.   But in the long run it would have benefited (how does that have only one "t"?) the area.  Now they get nothing.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-27-2019, 10:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Maryland is happy to take those jobs, but I understand that there's legitimate criticism in the richest man in the world being given $3b by the government when that neighborhood has serious infrastructure needs. 

There was criticism in our state over our governor not working with VA and DC to submit a joint proposal to Amazon given that the proposed location would benefit all three governments, meaning the burden shouldn't have fallen on just one to pay for the incentives.

Amazon wasn't receiving $3 billion, they were getting a $3 billion tax break over a period of years.  I don't recall the exact amount but I believe they still would have paid over $10 billion in taxes over the same time period.  Making $10 instead of $13 billion in taxes seems much better than making not a damn thing.  


I understand the average person being upset by a company getting a tax break, but that kind of incentivizing is par for the course in luring business to an area, especially a tax heavy area like NYC.  Unless you give away the farm the local government does nothing but gain, and in this case gain huge, in the long run.

[Belsnickel]

(02-27-2019, 10:42 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I understand the average person being upset by a company getting a tax break, but that kind of incentivizing is par for the course in luring business to an area, especially a tax heavy area like NYC.  Unless you give away the farm the local government does nothing but gain, and in this case gain huge, in the long run.

There is a criticism in doing things like that, though. When states use incentives like that specific to a company it is effectively choosing winners and losers in the market. The more equitable way to lure businesses to the state is to make overall policies more business friendly. We have relied on these sorts of incentives in Virginia for a long time, as well, and analyses done of our economic health have pointed to them as weaknesses that we need to shore up before they come back around to bite us in the ass. And we are more pro-business than states like New York or California, so I can only imagine what they deal with.

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 10:35 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I understand the criticism, although for me it's a different reason.   But in the long run it would have benefited (how does that have only one "t"?) the area.  Now they get nothing.  

We have a big bunch of buildings built in the early 70's for a volkswagen plant.

Not only did the area give tax breaks and other incentives but the business coming to the area meant the construction of a new highway.

When the tax breaks ended so did the plant.

So, eventually, they lured Sony to the same plant with the same tax breaks.  I was at that announcement with the governor (budding radio reporter that I was) and my only question was: What happens when the breaks end?

Same thing happened and they left also.

Both times they left behind all the buildings that needed upkeep and thousands of employees who no longer had a job.

I believe there is something there now...I'll let you guess how the state lured them in.  I'll let you guess what will happen when those incentives end.

We did get the highway though.  Which the state has to maintain so they keep raising taxes to cover those expenses (on all roadways of course).

Incentives are great but they don't last forever.  

[*michaelsean*]

(02-27-2019, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: We have a big bunch of buildings built in the early 70's for a volkswagen plant.

Not only did the area give tax breaks and other incentives but the business coming to the area meant the construction of a new highway.

When the tax breaks ended so did the plant.

So, eventually, they lured Sony to the same plant with the same tax breaks.  I was at that announcement with the governor (budding radio reporter that I was) and my only question was: What happens when the breaks end?

Same thing happened and they left also.

Both times they left behind all the buildings that needed upkeep and thousands of employees who no longer had a job.

I believe there is something there now...I'll let you guess how the state lured them in.  I'll let you guess what will happen when those incentives end.

We did get the highway though.  Which the state has to maintain so they keep raising taxes to cover those expenses (on all roadways of course).

Incentives are great but they don't last forever.  

Certainly nothing's guaranteed, but this seems different.  Either way I wouldn't be holding pep rallies that it's not going to happen.  Sort of like wanting to get rid of Obamacare with no replacement.

[GMDino]

(02-27-2019, 10:59 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Certainly nothing's guaranteed, but this seems different.  Either way I wouldn't be holding pep rallies that it's not going to happen.  Sort of like wanting to get rid of Obamacare with no replacement.

Well you can't lose what you never had.  It's not like a business pulled 25,000 jobs that actually existed.  FoxConn is a good story to follow for what is promised and may be delivered.

I think the locals were happy they stood their ground and didn't just roll over and be thankful for possible new jobs.  Amazon could have negotiated but they just took their ball and went home.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-27-2019, 11:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well you can't lose what you never had.  It's not like a business pulled 25,000 jobs that actually existed.  FoxConn is a good story to follow for what is promised and may be delivered.

I think the locals were happy they stood their ground and didn't just roll over and be thankful for possible new jobs.  Amazon could have negotiated but they just took their ball and went home.

The majority of those jobs would not have gone to 'locals'.  The local community would have seen an influx of tech transplants to take those jobs.  That would cause an immediate spike in housing costs and a longer term increase in property taxes for people who, in many cases, did not benefit from the arrival of amazon.