If anyone remembers, back in 2019, kids from my high school, one of which being my cousin's son, were in Washington for the March For Life in Washington, D.C., and were confronted by a Native American beating a drum in one kid's face.
The kid just stood there smiling, and lots of people filmed the last parts of it and painted the kids as villains and racists. The school and kids got death threats and bomb threats and the media made them out to be racist assholes.
Eventually, the truth came out that the Native American is a d-bag and that he instigated everything. There were big lawsuits against a lot of the media.
Now, a guy from my high school, that has to be in his mid-to-late 40s, is making a movie about it, but the writer of this article portrays the high school kids as the villains again:
Quote:With The Boys in Red Hats (in theaters and on VOD July 16), director Jonathan Schroder mounts a highly personal investigation into the January 2019 Lincoln Memorial standoff between Kentucky’s Covington Catholic High School students and Native American activist Nathan Phillips. That incident was made famous by Nick Sandmann’s smirk seen around the world, which immediately turned the teenager into a viral villain, and Schroder, an alumnus of Covington, is upfront about the fact that his documentary aims to clear his alma mater’s (and Sandmann’s) good name. Yet to the surprise of himself, and to us, what he delivers is something more complicated—if, ultimately, still a bit too facile.
Like millions of others, Schroder was angry and embarrassed by the notorious clip of Sandmann arrogantly smiling in a drum-beating Phillips’ face, and his reaction was compounded by his connection to Covington, an all-male institution for Northern Kentucky’s wealthy (and predominantly white) elite. As conveyed through first-person narration set to comical animation that resembles sketches in a school notebook, Schroder’s relationship with Covington was a messy one. Schroder loved the camaraderie and sense of self-worth provided by Covington, but the football scholarship that got him in didn’t shield him from slurs about his poor background (from the absurdly named Sugartit, Kentucky), and on one unforgettable day in class, a revered teacher punched him in the forehead—and he chose to stay silent about it lest he suffer additional discipline and ostracization.
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This assault naturally soured Schroder on Covington. However, via a former classmate that he met in in New York City, the filmmaker reconnected with the school and its supportive community, which he presents in The Boys in Red Hats as a place of intense kinship born from rampant entitlement. As he relays, everyone in the surrounding area hated Covington kids because of their in-your-face superiority complex—and that vitriol, in turn, brought Covington’s boys closer together. Chants and fight songs were part of their belligerent us-against-them attitude, including one that went, “That’s alright, that’s OK, you will work for us someday.”
Bolstered by interviews with past and current students, as well as two of the parents who chaperoned that fateful 2019 trip to Washington, D.C.—which was undertaken so the kids could attend the anti-abortion March for Life event—The Boys in Red Hats focuses intently on Covington’s culture because it’s central to the behavior that Sandmann and his cohorts displayed at the Lincoln Memorial. Theirs is a milieu of hermetically sealed homogeneity in which money and privilege begets egomania and cruelty. Schroder recounts how one Covington associate (who refused to appear on camera) told him, “I love my bubble.” In this context—where any perceived threat is met with intimidating pep rally-style chanting, as well as lawsuits to prove one’s own victimhood—it was only natural, Schroder contends, that Sandmann acted as he did, including subsequently suing CNN, The Washington Post and NBCUniversal over their critical reporting.
Quote:Schroder believes in Sandmann’s innocence because unedited footage of the confrontation suggests that the Covington kids were initially badgered by a group of Black Israelites, and that Phillips interjected himself into the equation and—whether he intended to be a peacemaker or a provocateur—inflamed it further. Phillips’ potentially suspect background also makes Schroder suspicious about his motivations. Thus, Schroder finds himself, personally and as a storyteller, in an uncomfortable middle ground: wanting to exonerate his Covington brethren as victims of a liberal media that jumped to damning conclusions, while understanding that those conclusions were based not purely on the question of who instigated who first, but on the larger forces that Sandmann and his classmates represented.
Alas, it’s not until 50 minutes into its 87-minute runtime that The Boys in Red Hats gets around to the elephant in the room (and its own title!): the MAGA gear that the Covington kids proudly wore in a show of solidarity with white nationalist sympathizer Donald Trump. By not getting to that central issue sooner, Schroder’s film winds up dithering around the margins for far too long. And though it finally does grapple with this key facet of the entire affair—since Sandmann’s condescending, cheerily antagonistic smugness in the face of a minority epitomized the Trump ethos—it doesn’t do so nearly enough, which is strange considering that Schroder does address Convington’s less-than-savory history with blackface and its students’ rowdiness at the 2019 Lincoln Memorial clash.
“When’s the last white nationalist violent incident of major consequence? They don’t exist anymore,” states Robert Barnes, a lawyer for Covington as well as a Fox News and Infowars pundit. It’s a statement that nicely sums up the willful blindness (and shameful disingenuousness) of the MAGA flock, and is in line with Sandmann’s eventual victimization routine, which was predicated on the underlying notion that his conduct, and worldview, couldn’t possibly be wrong. More than one speaker suggests that things would have never played out as they did—replete with so many public voices rushing to Sandmann’s defense—if the situation’s racial dynamics had been reversed, and The Boys in Red Hats shrewdly refuses to turn a blind eye to those notions, just as it refutes Barnes’ inanity with a montage of news stories about recent mass shootings, all of which were executed by fervent, racist Trumpers.
The Boys in Red Hats is honest about its biases and intentions while taking an admirably even-handed approach to its subject, and in many respects, it gets at the foundational assumptions and opinions that breed intolerant tribalism, and individuals like Sandmann and his MAGA ilk. Still, it stumbles in its closing moments. Surprising Phillips at his front door, and then acting aggrieved when he’s rebuffed, Schroder exhibits the same unwarranted, knee-jerk victimization tendencies that Sandmann does, suggesting that he hasn’t fully wrestled with the entitlement-over-empathy training he received at Covington. Worse, his documentary’s final censure of cable news networks and social media for creating cultures of insularity and divisiveness may be superficially accurate, but in pretending that all bubbles are equal—versus the obvious fact that some extremist groups and ideologies are considerably more dangerous and deadly than others—it takes the easy way out into glib bothsidesism.
The movie aims to tell the true story and help clear my school's name and this asshole writes it like the school is a bunch of entitled, racist assholes.
(07-13-2021, 07:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Make your own movie about it.
I don't think he's complaining about the guy who made the movie, or the movie itself; he's complaining about that hack of a writer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like millions of others, Schroder was angry and embarrassed by the notorious clip of Sandmann arrogantly smiling in a drum-beating Phillips’ face, and his reaction was compounded by his connection to Covington, an all-male institution for Northern Kentucky’s wealthy (and predominantly white) elite. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the parochial schools around Cincinnati (yes, I realize this is in NKy, but it's still the same) knows describing Cov Cath as an institution for the "wealthy elite" is dowright absurd.
Many of the truely wealthy elite send their kids off to boarding school. And for ones around who here who don't, they're most likely sending their kids to schools like Summit Country Day, Cincinnati Country Day or Seven Hills. Parochial schools are filled with kids that aren't even upper-middle class, much less the "wealthy elite." There's quite a few that can be described as lower-middle class as well.
What he's actually describing is catholic kids, largely from the suburbs, not at all that much different than any number of schools around the city (Mason, Anderson, Turpin, Loveland, Maderia, Milford, Mariemont, Sycamore, Wyoming, etc.)
Also, the "arrogantly smiling" comment is a just a bit much. When that situation is given full context, I don't think you can claim he was doing anything for certain. He was just standing there, and he could have been nervous just as much as he was being arrogant. It's just as likely he was a 17 year old kid ,who just endured having insults thrown at him from Black Isrealites, and now has a man beating a drum in his face, who was standing there not knowing what the hell to do.
As far as the rest of the article, you can be the judge. I honestly cannot believe some of the language used in this article, and I can't believe he didn't mention more the other characters that played a part of that day (save a couple of sentences, where no judgement is passed), or their behavior that played into this viral moment.
I suppose some people will never give an inch on this event, regardless of what came out. I just wish they were honest; they saw a bunch of white kids, some of who were wearing MAGA hats, and that told them everything they need to know. Nothing else is important or will change their minds.
(07-13-2021, 07:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Make your own movie about it.
What in my post made you think that I believe the movie is a bad idea?
In fact, my last sentence clarifies that the movie aims to clear my school's name and this writer just makes us look like a bunch of assholes?
I'm guessing you didn't even read that far............
(07-13-2021, 08:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't think he's not complaining about the guy who made the movie, or the movie itself; he's complaining about that hack of a writer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like millions of others, Schroder was angry and embarrassed by the notorious clip of Sandmann arrogantly smiling in a drum-beating Phillips’ face, and his reaction was compounded by his connection to Covington, an all-male institution for Northern Kentucky’s wealthy (and predominantly white) elite. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the parochial schools around Cincinnati (yes, I realize this is in NKy, but it's still the same) knows describing Cov Cath as an institution for the "wealthy elite" is dowright absurd.
Many of the truely wealthy elite send their kids off to boarding school. And for ones around who here who don't, they're most likely sending their kids to schools Summit Country Day, Cincinnati Country Day or Seven Hills. Parochial schools are filled with kids that aren't even upper-middle class, much less the "wealthy elite."
What he's actually describing his catholic kids, largely from the suburbs, not at all that much different than any number of schools around the city (Mason, Anderson, Turpin, Loveland, Maderia, Milford, Mariemont, Sycamore, Wyoming, etc.)
Also, the "arrogantly smiling" comment is a just a bit much. When that situation is given full context, I don't think you can claim he was doing anything for certain. He was just standing there, and he could have been nervous just as much as he was being arrogant. It's just as likely he was a 17 year old kid ,who just endured having insults thrown at him from Black Isrealites, and know has a man beating a drum in his face, who was standing there not knowing what the hell to do.
As far as the rest of the article, you can be the judge. I honestly cannot believe some of the language used in this article, and I can't believe he didn't mention the other characters that played a part of that day, or their behavior that caused this viral moment.
I suppose some people will never give an inch on this event, regardless of what came out. I just wish they were honest; they saw a bunch of white kids, some of who were wearing MAGA hats, and that told them everything they need to know. Nothing else is important or will change their minds.
EXACTLY.
Like I've said all-along, he's as bad as the news stations and TV stations that came out bashing my school and the kid.
Does he think that everyone will forget the true story of what really happened and is he just going for shock value?
(07-13-2021, 09:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I skimmed what you wrote and picked up on some negative words and assumed you were having a moan. I was wrong, but it wasn't the wrong bet to make.
It was completely the wrong bet to make.
And you wouldn't make that bet unless you thought I was stupid and you were smart, so you'd obviously be able to dismantle my thread without even reading it.
What a joke.
(07-13-2021, 09:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Probably. People are addicted to being told they are right, whether they are right or wrong is far less relevant. I admitted I was wrong to assume you were complaining about this movie. It sucked admitting I was wrong, but I did it. It still hurts, to this day.
You do that in just about every reply to every post I make.
(07-13-2021, 08:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't think he's complaining about the guy who made the movie, or the movie itself; he's complaining about that hack of a writer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like millions of others, Schroder was angry and embarrassed by the notorious clip of Sandmann arrogantly smiling in a drum-beating Phillips’ face, and his reaction was compounded by his connection to Covington, an all-male institution for Northern Kentucky’s wealthy (and predominantly white) elite. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the parochial schools around Cincinnati (yes, I realize this is in NKy, but it's still the same) knows describing Cov Cath as an institution for the "wealthy elite" is dowright absurd.
Many of the truely wealthy elite send their kids off to boarding school. And for ones around who here who don't, they're most likely sending their kids to schools like Summit Country Day, Cincinnati Country Day or Seven Hills. Parochial schools are filled with kids that aren't even upper-middle class, much less the "wealthy elite." There's quite a few that can be described as lower-middle class as well.
What he's actually describing is catholic kids, largely from the suburbs, not at all that much different than any number of schools around the city (Mason, Anderson, Turpin, Loveland, Maderia, Milford, Mariemont, Sycamore, Wyoming, etc.)
Also, the "arrogantly smiling" comment is a just a bit much. When that situation is given full context, I don't think you can claim he was doing anything for certain. He was just standing there, and he could have been nervous just as much as he was being arrogant. It's just as likely he was a 17 year old kid ,who just endured having insults thrown at him from Black Isrealites, and now has a man beating a drum in his face, who was standing there not knowing what the hell to do.
As far as the rest of the article, you can be the judge. I honestly cannot believe some of the language used in this article, and I can't believe he didn't mention more the other characters that played a part of that day (save a couple of sentences, where no judgement is passed), or their behavior that played into this viral moment.
I suppose some people will never give an inch on this event, regardless of what came out. I just wish they were honest; they saw a bunch of white kids, some of who were wearing MAGA hats, and that told them everything they need to know. Nothing else is important or will change their minds.
Uhhh yeah. Dude’s just making shit up about Catholic high schools. Especially parochial ones.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
Out of curiosity, I googled "The Boys in Red Hats reveiw" to see if anyone had else had reviewed it. I came across this, which reads completely different than The Daily Beast (The Left's Version of Info Wars). It's hard to believe these two people watched the same movie.
It was the “smirk” heard ’round the world. On January 2019, Nicholas Sandmann, a 16-year-old student at the Covington Catholic High School, defiantly stared down a Native American Elder, Nathan Phillips, as he drummed a song of peace. Both were surrounded by Sandmann’s fellow students, adorned in bright red MAGA (Make America Great Again) hats, cheering and jeering as if mocking the elder. It seemed to resemble a modern-day lynch mob and needless to say, the internet was furious.
Everyone from celebrities to politicians to average citizens jumped to be the first on their block to denounce this shameless act of racism. Editorials were typed, Tweets were posted and in short order, death threats were issued both publicly and privately towards those who had participated in this targeted act of bigotry. Yessir, those Covington kids were sure getting a sweet does of karmic justice.
But then the truth came out.
What everyone had been witnessing was in fact a mere minutes-long excerpt of a much longer event. It turns out that the boys had gathered at the steps of the Lincoln memorial to await buses home after participating in the annual March for Life. While there, the group became the subject of taunts by a local chapter of the “Black Hebrew Israelites”, a hate group that in short order, began spewing hateful remarks to the boys, calling them “crackers” and “school shooters”. The boys responded by starting their school cheer, in an effort to drown out the hate.
Nearby, Nathan Phillips and friends, who themselves were in town for the Indigenous People’s march, noticed the commotion and for reasons still not clear to this day, decided to insert themselves into the situation. They had approached they boys, not been surrounded by them as early reports suggested. It was at this point that the most infamous clip from the day began. Soon after, the boys left for the buses, blissfully unaware they were about to become the most hated faces of the western world. Before long, nearly every major media outlet and tweeting celebrity were forced to retract, or at least backpedal their initial rushes to judgement. This didn’t settle things though as many are still convinced to this day that the boys were in the wrong with many others pointing to this as a defining moment in the “cancel culture” era.
That’s quite a bit of preamble there, but I feel the above knowledge is necessary before diving into The Boys In Red Hats, a documentary by Jonathan Schroder who himself is a Covington graduate and has made an investigative documentary that will “piss both sides off” according to the trailer.
While many considered the case closed after the longer videos of the incident surfaced, Schroder is convinced there’s far more nuance to the story and attempts to do a deep dive by talking to as many as people as possible involved with, or close to the incident. He is mostly successful in speaking with the folks in Park Hills, Kentucky who were likely more willing to open up to a Cov Cath alumnus. Chaperones and at least one identity-protected student who were there on the day describe the events from their perspective and the brutal cultural aftermath of being tarred and feathered by what seemed like the entire world.
Schroder is less successful in speaking to representatives from the Phillips camp, with none of them agreeing to appear on camera, some fearing lawsuits from the Sandmann camp according to on-screen text. The film instead fills the progressive perspective with journalists, academics, and disgruntled Cov Cath graduates. Most act as a counterpoint to the Cov Cath side, with many participants seemingly hell-bent in finding some kind of wrongdoing on the boys part, often tenuously conflating their pep-rally cheers to racial micro-aggressions and the like. One interview with Vincent Schilling, an Akwesasne Mohawk writer for Indian Country Today, probably provides the most nuanced and useful commentary in the film from an Indigenous perspective.
There’s a lot of angles explored here, from private school elitism to a mainstream media more concerned with being first than being accurate. But without the clarifying voices of Sandmann (lawyered up) or Phillips (AWOL), the effect is akin to reading a curated internet comments section. There’s some new food for thought, but hardly enough for a feature film which forces the director to pad things with his life story at Cov Cath.
One of the film’s biggest failings is its rather surprising disinterest in the Black Hebrew Israelites, the ones who arguably instigated this whole mess. They are given passing mention in the film with seemingly no attempt to track down and identify the members. I wouldn’t expect them to be willing to talk on camera, but the film’s seeming complicity with the rest of mainstream media in keeping these hate-mongers in the shadows is rather disappointing, especially given that subsequent video has shown the members hurling racial slurs at the Native Americans (a fact the film itself fails to note).
The trouble with finding a resolution to the incident at the Lincoln Memorial is that the events seem to act as an empty vessel for witnesses to pour whatever preconceived notions and prejudices they have into. As journalist Julie Zimmerman puts it: “Everybody saw in that what they wanted to. It was another Rorschach test.” There’s enough ammo from either side that most viewers will likely come away from the film further entrenched in their original position, even if it’s now a slightly more enlightened one.
The Boys in Red Hats adds another chapter to the story of the Covington kids, but it certainly isn’t a concluding one. Perhaps that’s a bit too much to ask for amidst the ever-profitable outrage-factory we’re all subscribed to, but in the end, I think any reasonable person can see that the Lincoln Memorial incident was a case of cancel culture and virtue signalling having gone way too far, even if the film and the filmmakers themselves can’t always see it.
(07-14-2021, 08:58 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Jesus buddy, eat a peach. I admitted I was wrong and you're bashing the hell out of me.
Enjoy your victory lap.
Dude, c'mon. Reread what you wrote, and tell me that doesn't come across patronizing as hell. You don't get to write something like that and pretend he's the one unfairly the bashing you.
You wrote" "I was wrong, but wasn't the wrong bet to make."
Not sure why you're betting at all. I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to take the time to read what what's written.
Then you ended with: "It sucked admitting I was wrong, but I did it. It still hurts, to this day."
Can you lay it on any thicker? I don't even know if I can call this a non-apology. It reads more like a giant middle finger.
If I had to translate the entire post this is what I would come up with: "Yeah, I didn't even bother reading what you wrote and I don't feel bad about it at all. In fact, I'm going to mock you for calling me out on it."
Pile on, it's the only way I'll truly learn my lesson. Im going to imagine you're a woman though because that makes it hotter.
In my defense, every time he makes a post about Biden being insane because he put ketchup on a hotdog or something mundane like that I DO read the thing at least twice to make sure he's actually making that point.
(07-14-2021, 05:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Evidence is still there in the replies so delete it all you want but everyone can see what you said and what your intentions were.
I hope you learn from this because you do it on so many of my posts.
I don't think many of the active posters elect to engage with you, as this thread seems to be more about me than your original point.
Plus i admitted I jumped the gun and misread your post. I don't think you and I need to pretend we desire to like each other.
And i deleted stuff so the actual converstation could resume but interest in this thread hasn't picked up as of yet. Even if we accept your assertions that I'm just a dumbass, it's not apparent that many of the P&R folk who are way smarter than me are dying to debate with you.
(07-14-2021, 05:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't think many of the active posters elect to engage with you, as this thread seems to be more about me than your original point.
Plus i admitted I jumped the gun and misread your post. I don't think you and I need to pretend we desire to like each other.
And i deleted stuff so the actual converstation could resume but interest in this thread hasn't picked up as of yet. Even if we accept your assertions that I'm just a dumbass, it's not apparent that many of the P&R folk who are way smarter than me are dying to debate with you.
Maybe things will pick up later.
lol.
In defense of you posting hostile comments to try and bash me, you post more comments in lame attempts to bash me!
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!
I have no problem with you...... you're the one that spends your time trying to bash my posts but, like this one, they often go down in flames.
(07-14-2021, 07:59 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I have no problem with you...... you're the one that spends your time trying to bash my posts but, like this one, they often go down in flames.
See this is the issue, I'm admitting that I was wrong here and you insist on trying to force me to admit that I'm wrong to criticize any and all of your posts.
I'll admit I'm not enjoying admitting I'm wrong, but you're coming across as a person who has no idea how to handle being right for a change. To act like your posts are always above reproach and I've never had a coherent argument to make against you is absurd. You're frustrating to deal with when you're wrong and you're even worse when you are in the right.
(07-14-2021, 08:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: See this is the issue, I'm admitting that I was wrong here and you insist on trying to force me to admit that I'm wrong to criticize any and all of your posts.
I'll admit I'm not enjoying admitting I'm wrong, but you're coming across as a person who has no idea how to handle being right for a change. To act like your posts are always above reproach and I've never had a coherent argument to make against you is absurd. You're frustrating to deal with when you're wrong and you're even worse when you are in the right.
Except you're not really admitting your wrong: you're trying to justify taking shots at me and continuing to take shots at me.
(07-14-2021, 08:14 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except you're not really admitting your wrong: you're trying to justify taking shots at me and continuing to take shots at me.
No, I'm admitting I was lazy and skimmed this post and drew the wrong conclusion. The shot I'm taking at you is that you are usually a lot more predictable and your posts are more to the "democrats suck, you should all be sorry you didn't vote for Trump" nature. This one wasn't and I just read a few lines, saw you complaining about liberal media this and that and assumed the movie was left leaning and you had an issue with that.
I was wrong. In this thread I was wrong. I can still think my overall idea of you and your stances and nature are accurate.
Also, you tend to accuse everyone who disagrees with you as "taking shots at you because they have no real response" so I'm not even a special case by your metrics.
(07-14-2021, 08:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No, I'm admitting I was lazy and skimmed this post and drew the wrong conclusion. The shot I'm taking at you is that you are usually a lot more predictable and your posts are more to the "democrats suck, you should all be sorry you didn't vote for Trump" nature. This one wasn't and I just read a few lines, saw you complaining about liberal media this and that and assumed the movie was left leaning and you had an issue with that.
I was wrong. In this thread I was wrong. I can still think my overall idea of you and your stances and nature are accurate.
Well, you proved in this post that you come to poor conclusions and make assumptions to fit your preconceived notions about me.
You keep digging yourself deeper with comments like the last sentence and taking bashes at me like you did in the first paragraph.
(07-14-2021, 08:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Well, you proved in this post that you come to poor conclusions and make assumptions to fit your preconceived notions about me.
You keep digging yourself deeper with comments like the last sentence and taking bashes at me like you did in the first paragraph.
See, if you just stopped at the first sentence I'd agree with you but it almost seems like there is something within you that refuses to accept any sort of admission of fault without getting yet another shot in for yourself.
At any rate, I'll leave this thread to you and anyone else who wants to actually discuss the topic at hand. This public dialog between us is getting a little to weird even for me.
Guys does no one realize Nate was making a very subtle point? He pretended to jump the gun about the point of the OP just like Twitter and celebrities jumped the gun about those high school kids. It was actually quite impressive, give him a break.
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