They were innocent and on death row.

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2021, 05:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I was telling him my opinion on executing the worst of criminals. He implied he had some moral issues with it.  I said I didn't.  It was  a philosophical statement.

And I was just pointing out that the "philosophical" part of the discussion is moot.  That is why I started my post with "The problem is.  .  .  "

But just to be clear you DO have a moral objection with the death penalty because it leads to the State killing innocents, correct?

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2021, 05:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You mean the person you're responding to misrepresented your statement?  

I did no such thing.

I just reminded him that the morality issue is moot when discussing capital punishment.  Because from his posting history I am pretty sure that he does support the death penalty.  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-23-2021, 06:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And I was just pointing out that the "philosophical" part of the discussion is moot.  That is why I started my post with "The problem is.  .  .  "

But just to be clear you DO have a moral objection with the death penalty because it leads to the State killing innocents, correct?

Ok thanks. I will discuss things as I choose regardless of your opinion of the merit of the discussion. If SSF is happy to discuss it the same way, then it’s really not up to you to interject that it’s not a worthwhile discussion.

Your question was answered up above. Or perhaps the previous page.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-23-2021, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think you represent far more people than many here would realize.


Dude, that's not possible.  We're the most progressive state in the union, our prisons couldn't possibly be that bad.  

BTW, research Pelican Bay level five.  Level five doesn't "technically" exist, but it does.

I will look that up. I’m always aware that I could be overly influenced by tv, but some of those places where the yards and the toilets are divided up by race, and you better join one of the gangs that goes along with your race or you’re unprotected. Some scary stuff.

Edit: So Pelican Bay is like the new Alcatraz. You go there when you’re unable to play nice with others. Read about level four and saw a video of a guy during “recreation”. I can’t imagine what the hell level 5 would be.

[*michaelsean*]

Dino I think I derailed your thread a bit. My apologies.

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2021, 07:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Your question was answered up above.  Or perhaps the previous page.

Best I can tell from your statements so far you are still in favor of the death penalty.

(03-23-2021, 10:21 AM)michaelsean Wrote:  my response is start seeking the death penalty more often for white people 

I personally would have a much easier time recommending a white person get the death penalty.

  Just a monster and his need to be put down.

(03-23-2021, 01:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I would not send a person to death row if they weren't the trigger man unless it was a planned murder.  If you kill or have someone kill a witness in a criminal trial then absolutely.  Serial killers, mass murderers, purposeful killers of children such as people who prey on children.  

(03-23-2021, 05:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m probably leaning against the death penalty because of that, but for some reason I can’t fully come over in my head.

I won’t be overwrought when it’s finally gone.

So it appears that while it does concern you that innocent people will get killed it doesn't bother you enough "morally" to oppose the death penalty.

Correct?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-23-2021, 08:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Best I can tell from your statements so far you are still in favor of the death penalty.






So it appears that while it does concern you that innocent people will get killed it doesn't bother you enough "morally" to oppose the death penalty.

Correct?

Again. On the first parts you quoted I’m simply discussing the death penalty and when I think it’s appropriate. People in Europe where there is no death penalty can also have these discussions on when they would be ok with the death penalty.

My statement stands for itself. You don’t have to investigate any further to try to find where I slipped up. I have no black and white answer for you. My apologies. I’m curious as to why this is so important to you. Copying all these quotes and looking for clues. It’s kind of weird.

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2021, 08:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m curious as to why this is so important to you. Copying all these quotes and looking for clues.  It’s kind of weird.

I just think it is difficult to have a discussion on a topic when some of the people involved won't give a straight answer.

Based on the hints you have dropped I assume you are in favor of the death penalty, and I have a problem with that because the death penalty leads to the state killing innocent people.  To me that is a much bigger concern than the racial issues you wanted to make such a big deal over.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-23-2021, 08:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I just think it is difficult to have a discussion on a topic when some of the people involved won't give a straight answer.

Based on the hints you have dropped I assume you are in favor of the death penalty, and I have a problem with that because the death penalty leads to the state killing innocent people.  To me that is a much bigger concern than the racial issues you wanted to make such a big deal over.

Sorry best answer I have.

You don’t want a discussion you want to argue and win. I was discussing something with SSF that you yourself said was moot, and yet you still interjected yourself.

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2021, 08:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote:  I was discussing something with SSF that you yourself said was moot, and yet you still interjected yourself.

This is a message board.

Take your discussion to PM if you want to exclude everyone else.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-23-2021, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is a message board.

Take your discussion to PM if you want to exclude everyone else.

I’m not excluding anyone. If you wanted to join the discussion you were more than welcome but instead you found it necessary to judge the discussion as moot as if I weren’t aware of what I was actually discussing. Then you just got weird.

[GMDino]

(03-23-2021, 08:09 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Dino I think I derailed your thread a bit. My apologies.

No, no...I get it.

I am anti-death penalty except for the most extreme cases that are 100% provable so I understand being torn over it.  The death of an innocent person, sanctioned by the state is what stops me too.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2021, 09:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: I am anti-death penalty except for the most extreme cases that are 100% provable

The problem with this is that a lot of people claim DNA testing is so accurate that it is 100% provable.  However state crime labs have been known to falsify all sorts of lab results.

[GMDino]

(03-24-2021, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The problem with this is that a lot of people claim DNA testing is so accurate that it is 100% provable.  However state crime labs have been known to falsify all sorts of lab results.

I was thinking more of caught in the act, serial killer, etc.  Bundy was 100% guilty for example.

But like I said I will never support it 100% because there can and have been mistakes.