This looks like it could get serious

[hollodero]

(05-12-2020, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually Matt "the guy you assigned fair response and 'nuff said" used the term in this thread long before me, but surprisingly you didn't take exception. It is why I used it.

I didn't address that for I did not see that. Now that I do, I feel like this is a case of you reap what you sow. I do, however, get the context and take back that particular response.

(05-12-2020, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the rest; it's easy to say "I disagree" but it's out there

Is this about the unmasking, then I'd like to see substantial claims or honest arguments about that. Feel free! But as of now, that was not really provided. I could point out how OP sneaked in the word "illegally" and things like that, but that would be a waste of time. Debated a thousand times now, and as soon as someone says "Russia hoax" it is usually fruitless from the start. Bels said all I'd feel like saying really.

(05-12-2020, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: BTW, you didn't address the "one liner" similarity. Let me guess: Assmar is worse than bone spurs.

What? I mean, yes, I just said "the rest is true" without mentioning draft dodging specifically. You mean draft dodging? In that case I have to say that particular topic is not that important to me and neither is who is better or worse in that regard.

[GMDino]

(05-12-2020, 09:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It truly has gotten sad. Good luck with your defense of Biden and "he's not AS bad" in  our book. 

Did anyone ever answer why the Dems picked the candidate as close to Trump as they could find? 

We rally against and clutch our pearls as we are aghast at the actions of a man that spent the majority of his life as a celebrity. Yet the party of virtue have trotted out Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden the last couple of cycles. 

Personally, I liked Mayor Pete and Klobachar; as they were fairly moderate and seemed like good people. Biden is fairly moderate but he is no "better" person than Trump. I wonder how many of you will refer to Biden as Cadet Assmar. I'll but the over-under and 1 and take the under. 

Buddy, NO ONE is "as bad" as Trump...except maybe someone within the Trump family.

You can cast your accusations at Biden and Clinton and anyone on the board and never get close to the things Trump has said, done, and lost in court over.

Your spin that Democrats support Biden because isn't as bad as Trump would apply to absolutely anyone running against Trump and is a pure red herring being used to hide what Trump is.

TDS hit you hard.  I wish I knew why since you claim to have not voted for hi, claim to not support him, claim to only defend him because he gets called out so often (for things he actually says and does).

Maybe you need a break from social media and politics?

[*michaelsean*]

(05-12-2020, 10:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With the Presidential administration claiming that they smelled a rat from day 1, and officials like Devin Nunes that supported that theory from early on, the National News Media have by and large dismissed these theories as "unfounded" and painted a picture of a bunch of conspiracy theory nuts.  Now that Barr has accomplished much in uncovering the details of the Russia hoax, dismissed the case against General Flynn, the list of potential "bad agents" continues to grow.

Now, Richard Grenell has declassified a list of former Obama administration officials suspected of illegally unmasking American officials in sensitive international matters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/any-obama-officials-involved-in-flynn-unmasking-declassified-source/ar-BB13VZF6?ocid=spartandhp

[quoteActing Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell has declassified a list of former Obama administration officials who were allegedly involved in the so-called “unmasking” of former national security adviser Michael Flynn in his conversations with the former Russian ambassador during the presidential transition, a senior U.S. official tells ABC News. ]

[/quote]

Nice try but this is no longer a forum to discuss things even if it is to show where you are wrong.  It is now a place to laugh off any suggestion that a Democrat did anything wrong, and post tweets of people nobody ever heard of as long as they says the right thing.  

[GMDino]

Quote:Nice try but this is no longer a forum to discuss things even if it is to show where you are wrong.  It is now a place to laugh off any suggestion that a Democrat did anything wrong, and post tweets of people nobody ever heard of as long as they says the right thing.  

Not at all.  It is still a forum for people to post wild conspiracy theories without proof.  Sometimes people post opposing views with the links and facts to those theories.

I'd suggest rather than just ignoring outside facts from "people nobody ever heard of" poster around here would be better served to follow up and either dispute with their own facts or at least read and see what the new information is.

And on the other side there are still people who claim everything is just because "TRUMP!" while providing no data to support that.

Sometimes in a discussion we are wrong and we would be better if we could accept that.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-12-2020, 09:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It truly has gotten sad. Good luck with your defense of Biden and "he's not AS bad" in  our book. 

Did anyone ever answer why the Dems picked the candidate as close to Trump as they could find? 

We rally against and clutch our pearls as we are aghast at the actions of a man that spent the majority of his life as a celebrity. Yet the party of virtue have trotted out Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden the last couple of cycles. 

Personally, I liked Mayor Pete and Klobachar; as they were fairly moderate and seemed like good people. Biden is fairly moderate but he is no "better" person than Trump. I wonder how many of you will refer to Biden as Cadet Assmar. I'll but the over-under and 1 and take the under. 

I'm just going to remind you bone spurs aren't disqualifying.  Also, bone spurs, or osteophytes, are found throughout the body; neck, shoulders, back, hips, knees, ankles.  Not just heels.  There is a medical condition associated with heel spurs which no one in the Trump administration has ever mentioned once.  That medical condition is only temporarily disqualify if pain is present which is usually weeks to a few months.

Asthma, on the other hand, is disqualifying and it can be reliably diagnosed with tests such as PFTs or a methacholine challenge.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2020, 11:09 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm just going to remind you bone spurs aren't disqualifying.  Also, bone spurs, or osteophytes, are found throughout the body; neck, shoulders, back, hips, knees, ankles.  Not just heels.  There is a medical condition associated with heel spurs which no one in the Trump administration has ever mentioned once.  That medical condition is only temporarily disqualify if pain is present which is usually weeks to a few months.

Asthma, on the other hand, is disqualifying and it can be reliably diagnosed with tests such as PFTs or a methacholine challenge.

Why are you playing politics?!?!??!

You need to be "above politics" like bfine is!!!



All seriousness aside I don't know if either should have been found ineligible for service.  I don't.  But I know bfine and fine service people like him will attack Biden because he's a Democrat as use people attacking Trump as their excuse after years of defending Trump.  Then accuse Democrats of being hypocrites. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-13-2020, 11:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: Why are you playing politics?!?!??!

You need to be "above politics" like bfine is!!!



All seriousness aside I don't know if either should have been found ineligible for service.  I don't.  But I know bfine and fine service people like him will attack Biden because he's a Democrat as use people attacking Trump as their excuse after years of defending Trump.  Then accuse Democrats of being hypocrites. 

Well, asthma is a helluva lot more common in 18-22 y/o males than calcaneal osteophytes and even more common than symptomatic calcaneal osteophytes in 18-22 y/o males that would result in chronic, debilitating pain which would preclude them from military service.  Something like only 20% of calcaneal osteophytes are symptomatic and related to plantar fasciitis.  And it is important to note the bone spurs don't cause the pain, but rather a result of microscopic tears where the plantar fascia attaches to the calcaneus resulting in calcium deposition which results in bone spurs over the course of years.

The difference between the two is like seeing a wild horse versus a zebra running free through the western United States.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2020, 11:09 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm just going to remind you bone spurs aren't disqualifying.  Also, bone spurs, or osteophytes, are found throughout the body; neck, shoulders, back, hips, knees, ankles.  Not just heels.  There is a medical condition associated with heel spurs which no one in the Trump administration has ever mentioned once.  That medical condition is only temporarily disqualify if pain is present which is usually weeks to a few months.

Asthma, on the other hand, is disqualifying and it can be reliably diagnosed with tests such as PFTs or a methacholine challenge.

As I said: I set the over/under at 1 and am taking the under. 

FWIW, you don't have to tell me about bone spurs. Over 20 years in the Military as a scout, my feet have covered many miles. A bone spur on your heal rubbing on your boot can be quite painful if not debilitating. I went to discuss having them removed and stopped the consult when doc said "First thing we'll have to do is go in there and cut the Achilles tendon". I told him never mind and limped out of there and got my 800mg Motrin refilled.

I am fully aware that folks will say the Assmar is worse than bone spurs. Joe's assmar was so bad that he couldn't join the Army but he could play sports throughout High School and college and even be a lifeguard. Seems severe assmar would hamper one's ability to be a lifeguard.  

[GMDino]

(05-13-2020, 11:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: Why are you playing politics?!?!??!

You need to be "above politics" like bfine is!!!



All seriousness aside I don't know if either should have been found ineligible for service.  I don't.  But I know bfine and fine service people like him will attack Biden because he's a Democrat as use people attacking Trump as their excuse after years of defending Trump.  Then accuse Democrats of being hypocrites. 

(05-13-2020, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I set the over/under at 1 and am taking the under. 

FWIW, you don't have to tell me about bone spurs. Over 20 years in the Military as a scout, my feet have covered many miles. A bone spur on your heal rubbing on your boot can be quite painful if not debilitating. I went to discuss having them removed and stopped the consult when doc said "First thing we'll have to do is go in there and cut the Achilles tendon". I told him never mind and limped out of there and go my 800mg Motrin refilled.

I am fully aware that folks will say the Assmar is worse than bone spurs. Joe's assmar was so bad that he couldn't join the Army but he could play sports throughout High School and college and even be a lifeguard. Seems severe assmar would hamper one's ability to be a lifeguard.  

Besides the fact that asthma is treatable and was something Biden apparently dealt with and "bone spurs" only showed up once just at the right time then just disappeared magically (unlike yours...sorry), besides that, thanks for being "above politics".

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2020, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I set the over/under at 1 and am taking the under. 

FWIW, you don't have to tell me about bone spurs. Over 20 years in the Military as a scout, my feet have covered many miles. A bone spur on your heal rubbing on your boot can be quite painful if not debilitating. I went to discuss having them removed and stopped the consult when doc said "First thing we'll have to do is go in there and cut the Achilles tendon". I told him never mind and limped out of there and got my 800mg Motrin refilled.

I am fully aware that folks will say the Assmar is worse than bone spurs. Joe's assmar was so bad that he couldn't join the Army but he could play sports throughout High School and college and even be a lifeguard. Seems severe assmar would hamper one's ability to be a lifeguard.  

(05-13-2020, 12:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Besides the fact that asthma is treatable and was something Biden apparently dealt with and "bone spurs" only showed up once just at the right time then just disappeared magically (unlike yours...sorry), besides that, thanks for being "above politics".

Not attacking him at all. He simply used his position of influence and power to defer Military service just as Trump and 1,000s of other did. I just used my exceptional future predicting skills and predicted folks would say "Assmar is legit" and those that love to use the term Cadet Bone Spurs will not use the term Cadet Assmar". They can lie to themselves as why they don't, but rational folk know why. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-13-2020, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I set the over/under at 1 and am taking the under. 

FWIW, you don't have to tell me about bone spurs. Over 20 years in the Military as a scout, my feet have covered many miles. A bone spur on your heal rubbing on your boot can be quite painful if not debilitating. I went to discuss having them removed and stopped the consult when doc said "First thing we'll have to do is go in there and cut the Achilles tendon". I told him never mind and limped out of there and go my 800mg Motrin refilled.

Yeah, there's your typical patient presentation.  Many years.  Many miles.  Your typical 18-22 y/o males usually doesn't have much treadwear.

Quote:I am fully aware that folks will say the Assmar is worse than bone spurs. Joe's assmar was so bad that he couldn't join the Army but he could play sports throughout High School and college and even be a lifeguard. Seems severe assmar would hamper one's ability to be a lifeguard.  

http://arotc.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AR-40-501-Standards-of-Medical-Fitness.pdf

Page 12, 2-23d

Any degree of asthma regardless of severity which is reliably diagnosed and is symptomatic after age 13 y/o is disqualifying for military enlistment, appointment, or induction IAW AR 40-501.


Typically your high school or college athlete or even a lifeguard doesn't have to perform their job a in a CS chamber or through a smoke screen or while wearing a protective mask during a road march in the Georgia summer heat and humidity or in a desert environment or breathing toxic fumes from fires caused from the destruction of combat where medical care can be hours or even days away or when their immune system is suppressed from the anxiety and lack of food and rest during Ranger School any of which could trigger a life threatening asthma exacerbation even in someone with mild, intermittent asthma.  I've experienced all of those and more. Which is why the military doesn't use high school or the NCAA medical standards. But, you already know this.

This has been updated to include correct link.

[hollodero]

(05-13-2020, 09:03 AM)GMDino Wrote: Nice try but this is no longer a forum to discuss things even if it is to show where you are wrong.  It is now a place to laugh off any suggestion that a Democrat did anything wrong, and post tweets of people nobody ever heard of as long as they says the right thing.  

That isn't quite fair. We rather had these things coming up again and again. And again and again and again. All those scandals and illegal deeds that led to poor Trump getting kneecapped by the FBI/Dem/deep state conspirators.

And after it had been there a thousand times, one learns that discussing these things is not worth the effort. No Trump supporter will ever change his stance, no matter what anyone says or no matter how often the falsehoods in these conspiracies are addressed. The same whole unfounded, disproven, argumentatievely dissembled stuff comes up unchanged again. Pointless. All these accusations are not about facts or reality. It's about being pro-Trump and anti-anti-Trump no matter what.

What to do? Say once more how none of these unmaskings were actually illegal? Bels did that, actually. Trump supporter don't care. At some point and after several years, please forgive me and others that are just tired of the same old pattern and the same old pointlessness of replying to those things. I am not Sisyphus, I am not bound by fate to roll the same stone on top of a mountain over and over until eternity, knowing it will just roll off again. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-13-2020, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not attacking him at all. He simply used his position of influence and power to defer Military service just as Trump and 1,000s of other did. I just used my exceptional future predicting skills and predicted folks would say "Assmar is legit" and those that love to use the term Cadet Bone Spurs will not use the term Cadet Assmar". They can lie to themselves as why they don't, but rational folk know why. 

That's because reasonably diagnosed and symptomatic asthma is legit.



Anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2020, 12:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yeah, there's your typical patient presentation.  Many years.  Many miles.  Your typical 18-22 y/o males usually doesn't have much treadwear.


https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN8680_AR40_502_FINAL_WEB.pdf

Page 12, 2-23d

Any degree of asthma regardless of severity which is reliably diagnosed and is symptomatic after age 13 y/o is disqualifying for military enlistment, appointment, or induction IAW AR 40-501.


Typically your high school or college athlete or even a lifeguard doesn't have to perform their job a in a CS chamber or through a smoke screen or while wearing a protective mask during a road march in the Georgia summer heat and humidity or in a desert environment or breathing toxic fumes from fires caused from the destruction of combat where medical care can be hours or even days away or when their immune system is suppressed from the anxiety and lack of food and rest during Ranger School any of which could trigger a life threatening asthma exacerbation even in someone with mild, intermittent asthma.  I've experienced all of those and more. Which is why the military doesn't use high school or the NCAA medical standards. But, you already know this.

He's an expert.

[hollodero]

(05-13-2020, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not attacking him at all. He simply used his position of influence and power to defer Military service just as Trump and 1,000s of other did. I just used my exceptional future predicting skills and predicted folks would say "Assmar is legit" and those that love to use the term Cadet Bone Spurs will not use the term Cadet Assmar". They can lie to themselves as why they don't, but rational folk know why. 

To be fair. Many times that cadet bone spurs line came up as a reaction to things Trump said. Like Trump touting his own bravery (like he would run into a school with a shooter), or when he claims he knows more than the generals or no one knows more about the military than him. In these cases, it seems a bit more fair to bring up his deferrence.

Sure enough, if Biden ever claims he knows more than the generals about the military, it would also seem fair to bring up his own non-service as well. Biden just doesn't quite say things like that. That is a difference.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2020, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not attacking him at all. He simply used his position of influence and power to defer Military service just as Trump and 1,000s of other did. I just used my exceptional future predicting skills and predicted folks would say "Assmar is legit" and those that love to use the term Cadet Bone Spurs will not use the term Cadet Assmar". They can lie to themselves as why they don't, but rational folk know why. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden#Early_life_and_education_(1942%E2%80%931965)

Quote:Biden's father was wealthy but had suffered several financial setbacks by the time his son was born. For several years, the family had to live with Biden's maternal grandparents, the Finnegans.[17] When the Scranton area fell into economic decline during the 1950s, Biden's father could not find sustained work.[18] In 1953, the Bidens moved into an apartment in Claymont, Delaware, where they lived for several years before again moving to a house in Wilmington, Delaware.[17] Joe Biden Sr. later became a successful used car salesman, maintaining the family's middle-class lifestyle.[17][18][19]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden#cite_note-aap08-bio-19][/url]
I did NOT know sons of used car salesmen (even successful ones) had the same position of influence and power that people like Trump did. 

Guess you learn something new every day.  

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2020, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  Yes, a thread about possible Obama admin corruption quickly turned to how bad Trump is..Who the hell could have seen that coming from a mile away? What's that term Matt used...TDS?

Anyone who saw the term "Russian hoax" in the OP.


Was that supposed to be a serious question?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-13-2020, 12:38 PM)hollodero Wrote: To be fair. Many times that cadet bone spurs line came up as a reaction to things Trump said. Like Trump touting his own bravery (like he would run into a school with a shooter), or when he claims he knows more than the generals or no one knows more about the military than him. In these cases, it seems a bit more fair to bring up his deferrence.

Sure enough, if Biden ever claims he knows more than the generals about the military, it would also seem fair to bring up his own non-service as well. Biden just doesn't quite say things like that. That is a difference.

I think if Biden ever claims he doesn't like prisoners of war because they got caught he should be called Cadet Asthma.

[hollodero]

(05-13-2020, 01:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think if Biden ever claims he doesn't like prisoners of war because they got caught he should be called Cadet Asthma.

Oh that's right, I forgot about that one, that's a big one. I whole-heartedly agree. If Biden ever says that I will come here and call him "cadet asthma" first thing. Would seem appropriate.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2020, 12:30 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's because reasonably diagnosed and symptomatic asthma is legit.



Anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.

No one said he wasn't diagnosed with Assmar. I think Biden had it just long enough to be disqualified from service. Inability to walk in combat boots without pain could also be a dis qualifier, couldn't it?

Did/do you know anyone who served with Assmar. I know I do.