Thoughtson Biden's speech/plan?

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2021, 10:14 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  None of those countries do anything as crazy as Biden wants to do so, again, what are you arguing?

Give me some examples of what Biden wants to do that is so crazy none of those other countries do them and I will be glad to have this discussion?

[*Nately120*]

(05-10-2021, 12:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Give me some examples of what Biden wants to do that is so crazy none of those other countries do them and I will be glad to have this discussion?

Biden is going to make this country socialist...though, how we aren't full-blown communists after 8 years of Obama is beyond me.  Hmm...it's possible this is another media-driven false alarm.

[BFritz21]

(05-10-2021, 12:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is pretty clear that you do not understand this issue at all.  There are two ways for owners (stockholders) to get profits out of a company.  

If a corporation has a million dollars income it can pull that money out, pay corporate income taxes on it, then pay it out to stockholders who then have to pay income tax on it again.

Or the corporation can re-invest the million dollars in income, and pay zero corporate income tax.  The re-investment increases the value of the stock.  The stockholders can then get their money by selling their stocks at a profit, but they pay about half as much income tax on the money they make because it is "capitol gains".

The higher the corporate tax rate the more incentive there is for companies to re-invest their income instead of pulling it out and paying corporate income tax on it.  Tax deduction like "wages paid" are also more valuable the higher the corporate tax rate.





Corporation are ALREADY doing everything they can to keep the prices of labor down.  They are not just saying "Hey lets waste a lot of money on labor we don't need because we have a low corporate tax rate."  The cost of labor is a business expense that all businesses want to keep as low as possible no matter what the corporate tax rate.

This is almost as stupid as the claim that wealthy people would rather sit on their money making zero income with it instead of investing it and paying taxes on the profits they make.  Even with higher tax rates people are going to prefer making money and paying taxes over making nothing.

You really don't understand how economics or accounting works and it's pointless to keep arguing with you when you throw out just lumps of bullshit.

I will ask this question though: why would people look for jobs when Biden is paying them more right now to sit at home and NOT work?  Taxing corporations heavily when people aren't looking for work offsets your argument.  Also, that's just going to cause inflation.

[Belsnickel]

(05-10-2021, 01:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I will ask this question though: why would people look for jobs when Biden is paying them more right now to sit at home and NOT work?  Taxing corporations heavily when people aren't looking for work offsets your argument.  Also, that's just going to cause inflation.

Maybe, and I know this is a crazy idea, employers could pay people a living wage. I mean, the benefits being given aren't that much and the fact that it is higher than what some people make working is rather sickening.

[*Nately120*]

(05-10-2021, 01:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I will ask this question though: why would people look for jobs when Biden is paying them more right now to sit at home and NOT work?

I haven't looked into this.  What would my  yearly salary be if I quit working and just started sitting at home?

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2021, 01:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Biden is going to make this country socialist...though, how we aren't full-blown communists after 8 years of Obama is beyond me.  Hmm...it's possible this is another media-driven false alarm.

To be fair, Bernie Sanders calling himself a "democratic socialist" gave a lot of ammunition to the sources that mold the right-wing propaganda. But no Democratic leader is going to take us to Socialism.  The fact is that the Democratic Party is just as deeply beholden to the financial support of corporate America as the Republican Party.  That is why Obama refused to back a single pay government health care program like he should have.  There was no way he could destroy the multibillion dollar profit driven private insurance industry.  To me the only way to economically provide the same level of heal the care at a lower price to the consumer is to eliminate the billions of dollars of profits taken by the health insurance industry.  The ACA helped a lot of people, but it could have been so much better if done properly.

The industrial revolution changed the word of commerce and labor.  It is impossible to relate the specific policies of our founding fathers to todays economy because nothing like the immense power and control of today's corporations existed at that time.  But we can look at their general beliefs on the requirements of a government.  Note that The Constitution says that the duties of a government include "promoting the general Welfare" and "securing the Blessings of Liberty" for ourselves and our posterity.  The government is to also "ensure domestic Tranquility".

Today's Democratic Party supports a competitive capitalist market.  We have to have that in order to drive progress and efficiency

But Democrats think corporations should be regulated to protect the poor, and the uneducated, and the weak, and preserve clean air, and water, plus insure safe drugs, and safe travel for everyone plus many other services help the entire country.  That is "promoting the general welfare" of this country.

[*Nately120*]

(05-10-2021, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, Bernie Sanders calling himself a "democratic socialist" gave a lot of ammunition to the sources that mold the right-wing propaganda. But no Democratic leader is going to take us to Socialism.  

People have been crying "COMMIE!" on democrats since JFK, though haven't they?

[Vas Deferens]

(05-10-2021, 12:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Give me some examples of what Biden wants to do that is so crazy none of those other countries do them and I will be glad to have this discussion?

(05-10-2021, 02:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I haven't looked into this.  What would my  yearly salary be if I quit working and just started sitting at home?

Answer loading, please wait on counter deflection from the main office.

[BFritz21]

Answer to all these questions can be seen here:





I know that some people never view videos that prove their points wrong, but here's a summary of the first 15 minutes or so that deal with Biden's plan:

-Unemployment is rising but employers can't find people to fill jobs.
-Things, even common products, are becoming more expensive because, like I predicted, INFLATION!
-In Louisiana, the state with the LOWEST weekly unemployment benefits, you can make $500 A WEEK, which comes out to $12 an hour, which is above the minimum wage.  In the states with the highest benefits, you can make almost $20 an hour for not working.
-Biden's administration was predicting a million new jobs last night and there were only 266,000 created.
-Places are having to hike wages to hire people, which is fine for big businesses and corporations but it's going to kill millions of small businesses that can't afford to pay workers what big chains can.  

[BFritz21]

(05-10-2021, 02:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I haven't looked into this.  What would my  yearly salary be if I quit working and just started sitting at home?

(05-11-2021, 01:26 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Answer loading, please wait on counter deflection from the main office.

Answer above.  Seems like a pretty decent living for doing nothing.

[Belsnickel]

(05-11-2021, 02:02 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Answer to all these questions can be seen here:





I know that some people never view videos that prove their points wrong, but here's a summary of the first 15 minutes or so that deal with Biden's plan:

-Unemployment is rising but employers can't find people to fill jobs.
-Things, even common products, are becoming more expensive because, like I predicted, INFLATION!
-In Louisiana, the state with the LOWEST weekly unemployment benefits, you can make $500 A WEEK, which comes out to $12 an hour, which is above the minimum wage.  In the states with the highest benefits, you can make almost $20 an hour for not working.
-Biden's administration was predicting a million new jobs last night and there were only 266,000 created.
-Places are having to hike wages to hire people, which is fine for big businesses and corporations but it's going to kill millions of small businesses that can't afford to pay workers what big chains can.  

I won't watch Tucker because he is a terrible human being and a known liar, not because he proves me wrong. Which he doesn't do, here.

I will let you now ignore something that counters Tucker's argument: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/economy/unemployment-benefits-work-incentive/index.html

[BFritz21]

(05-11-2021, 02:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I won't watch Tucker because he is a terrible human being and a known liar, not because he proves me wrong. Which he doesn't do, here.

I will let you now ignore something that counters Tucker's argument: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/economy/unemployment-benefits-work-incentive/index.html

How does that in any way counter Tucker's argument?  The way I see it, that strengthens Tucker's argument and keeps up the idea that small businesses can't survive.

This is great.

Typical to post something with no substance or value like it somehow counters my argument.

[*Nately120*]

(05-11-2021, 02:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Answer above.  Seems like a pretty decent living for doing nothing.

Can you provide a source that hasn't been legally declared not to be taken seriously?

[Belsnickel]

(05-11-2021, 02:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How does that in any way counter Tucker's argument?  The way I see it, that strengthens Tucker's argument and keeps up the idea that small businesses can't survive.

This is great.

Typical to post something with no substance or value like it somehow counters my argument.

You're right, it didn't at all talk about how the narrative of unemployment benefits being the cause of the smaller job gains being erroneous and provided research that had been done to back up that claim. Sure seems like something lacking in substance or value, not at all like someone who, according to their employer, wouldn't be taken seriously by any reasonable person.

Yep. Seems about par for the course with you, Brad.

[Belsnickel]

(05-11-2021, 03:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Can you provide a source that hasn't been legally declared not to be taken seriously?

Now now. While the judge agreed with it, it was Fox News themselves that said a reasonable person wouldn't take him seriously.

[BFritz21]

(05-11-2021, 03:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Can you provide a source that hasn't been legally declared not to be taken seriously?

Nice rebuttal.  Really countered all the points I listed.

[CJD]

(05-02-2021, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: We are being groomed for socialism and one party control. He said multiple times that our ‘form’ of democracy doesn’t work, it’s too slow, requires more government intervention, etc. These are the same general messages that Hitler, Mousselini and Stalin used to prepare their citizens for government takeover. More recently it was Hugo Chavez. He criticized China for being in bed together with Chinese companies...yet its exactly what the Democrats are engineering here.  Spending in the many Trillions (what comes after Trillion??) will be the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.  And it won’t be you or I that benefits...how will you feel working for the government? Because in essence, you will be. We have to stop this crap and stop it fast.

He's trying to destroy what made America great.  He wants to give handouts.

It'd be terrible if the government gave away things of value to its citizens. That's not what America was built on!

...Unless you count the Homestead Acts....

Or the New Deal...

Or Social Security...

Or Medicare/Medicaid...

Or welfare...

Or (most) energy grids...

....Or the roads, highways, fire departments, police departments, scholarships, public libraries, hospitals or low cost K-12 education...

...

...Man, America really was built on handouts and government assistance, wasn't it?

Well, better stop that immediately! We wouldn't want our next generation to benefit from the value of decommodified goods and services, now would we?!?!

Also, I noticed you mentioned we're being prepped for socialism, but then the first two dictators you mentioned were fascists. Trying to sneak Hitler and Mussolini into "the left" is an age old tactic, but we're not falling for it here. We'll take the L for Stalin, but you guys can keep the first two.

[CJD]

(05-09-2021, 08:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Norway's not socialist:


Actually, none of the Nordic countries are socialist, and that includes Finland.

Canada's not socialist either:

Japan's also not a socialist country:



So, those countries may have aspects of socialism, like the US does with things like Medicare and minimum wage laws, but they're far from socialists countries.

Whoops.

Then let's do what they're doing.

On a completely unrelated note, I love this meme:

[BFritz21]

(05-11-2021, 03:50 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It'd be terrible if the government gave away things of value to its citizens. That's not what America was built on!

...Unless you count the Homestead Acts....

Or the New Deal...

Or Social Security...

Or Medicare/Medicaid...

Or welfare...

Or (most) energy grids...

....Or the roads, highways, fire departments, police departments, scholarships, public libraries, hospitals or low cost K-12 education...

...

...Man, America really was built on handouts and government assistance, wasn't it?

Well, better stop that immediately! We wouldn't want our next generation to benefit from the value of decommodified goods and services, now would we?!?!

Also, I noticed you mentioned we're being prepped for socialism, but then the first two dictators you mentioned were fascists. Trying to sneak Hitler and Mussolini into "the left" is an age old tactic, but we're not falling for it here. We'll take the L for Stalin, but you guys can keep the first two.

You really think social safety net programs are the same as Biden's 1.9 trillion dollar relief plan?

[CJD]

(05-11-2021, 04:02 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You really think social safety net programs are the same as Biden's 1.9 trillion dollar relief plan?

The relief plan for COVID? Or his infrastructure plan?

Because the relief plan was a response to the global pandemic, it wasn't a social safety net program.