Three US soldiers killed and up to 34 injured in drone attack.

[*pally*]

(01-28-2024, 10:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Seriously, if it was your mother, fathers, brother, sister, husband, wife of close who died to day, would you make the same comment?

Please tell how his prior logical and proportionally responses deterred or stopped today's major attack on our troops?

Do you really trust hi and his horrible removal of service members and billions of dollars in equipment in Afghanistan?

I feel everyone has the right to be very concerned on the Joe Biden policy. I don't want another war, but Biden's perceived weakness to the rest of the world may get us into another war. 

I grew up as a military child. My brother and nephew both served. We knew each and every day this was a possibility. Would I be angry and upset if it happened…of course. But, I would never want or expect the United States to wage all out war because of the loss of 3 men. Over reacting only gets us into trouble. The President needs to react proportionally and precisely to the threat. How many more people do you put at risk to revenge 3? This is real life not the movies. It is also something that needs to be determined by people who have all the information…not a Fox News armchair warriors.

How do you think he should respond since you seem to know

[Luvnit2]

(01-28-2024, 11:36 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: What's your solution bud?

My solution started 3 years ago. Cut off the money supply to Iran versus giving them 6 billion dollars and lifting sanctions. Trump had Iran broke due to his sanctions and policies and then Joe decided to play nice thinking the number 1 terrorist state in the middle east would be friends with our allies and us. Flat out, his foreign policy is getting soldiers killed, happened in Afghanistan and now in Jordan as well as the 2 seals who died.

So my solution now is to cut off their money supply which is oil. I would destroy every oil producing cite in Iran. If they lose their income, they can't financially support all of the various terrorist cells they finance.

[Luvnit2]

(01-29-2024, 09:21 AM)pally Wrote: I grew up as a military child.  My brother and nephew both served.  We knew each and every day this was a possibility.  Would I be angry and upset if it happened…of course.  But, I would never want or expect the United States to wage all out war because of the loss of 3 men.  Over reacting only gets us into trouble.  The President needs to react proportionally and precisely to the threat.  How many more people do you put at risk to revenge 3? This is real life not the movies.  It is also something that needs to be determined by people who have all the information…not a Fox News armchair warriors.

How do you think he should respond since you seem to know

I will repeat my thoughts I stated to another poster. You will find it is not going to war with our troops, it is going to war against the Iran economy.

My solution started 3 years ago. Cut off the money supply to Iran versus giving them 6 billion dollars and lifting sanctions. Trump had Iran broke due to his sanctions and policies and then Joe decided to play nice thinking the number 1 terrorist state in the middle east would be friends with our allies and us. Flat out, his foreign policy is getting soldiers killed, happened in Afghanistan and now in Jordan as well as the 2 seals who died.


So my solution now is to cut off their money supply which is oil. I would destroy every oil producing cite in Iran. If they lose their income, they can't financially support all of the various terrorist cells they finance.

[Dill]

(01-29-2024, 02:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will repeat my thoughts I stated to another poster. You will find it is not going to war with our troops, it is going to war against the Iran economy.
My solution started 3 years ago. Cut off the money supply to Iran versus giving them 6 billion dollars and lifting sanctions. Trump had Iran broke due to his sanctions and policies and then Joe decided to play nice thinking the number 1 terrorist state in the middle east would be friends with our allies and us. Flat out, his foreign policy is getting soldiers killed, happened in Afghanistan and now in Jordan as well as the 2 seals who died.
So my solution now is to cut off their money supply which is oil. I would destroy every oil producing cite in Iran. If they lose their income, they can't financially support all of the various terrorist cells they finance.

According to the IAEA, Trump brought Iran a year closer to nuclear breakout.

What is your evidence that "Trump had Iran broke"?

Has anyone besides Trump said that?

You think Biden gave Iran 6 billion dollars ???????


And so your advice is for the US to declare war on Iran, unable to imagine what the international response to that might be?

[Dill]

(01-28-2024, 10:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess you have missed the numerous warnings Joe Biden, John Kirby and others have issued directly to Iran. This has nothing to do with Fox News, it has everything to do with Joe Biden and Democrats foreign policy.

Guess I haven't missed "numerous warnings" to Iran.

I was just saying it's a bit premature to presume Iran is always directing proxy attacks. 

If Biden were doing that, that would not make it right.  But you are complaining he is not aggressive enough.

While most in the US seem to think it perfectly normal to place armed military bases in other countries,

many people in the ME see US troops on their land as an affront to their sovereignty.

Imagine how you and Trump would react if the Iranians simply had military bases in neighboring countries like Canada,

or a carrier force in the Caribbean.

[Luvnit2]

(01-29-2024, 02:47 PM)Dill Wrote:
Guess I haven't missed "numerous warnings" to Iran.

I was just saying it's a bit premature to presume Iran is always directing proxy attacks. 

If Biden were doing that, that would not make it right.  But you are complaining he is not aggressive enough.

While most in the US seem to think it perfectly normal to place armed military bases in other countries,

many people in the ME see US troops on their land as an affront to their sovereignty.

Imagine how you and Trump would react if the Iranians simply had military bases in neighboring countries like Canada,

or a carrier force in the Caribbean.

Either you have selective memory or live in a cave. Biden started with DON'T AS HIS FIRST WARNING TO IRAN AND ITS PROXIES. Kirby has been speaking about it at press conferences for months as Biden and his team watched our troops being attacked over 100 times in past 3 months.

Again, this is not a Fox news story made up, it is actual words spoken by Biden, Kirby, Austin and others stating Iran has sponsored the different terrorist cells.

[Luvnit2]

(01-29-2024, 02:39 PM)Dill Wrote: According to the IAEA, Trump brought Iran a year closer to nuclear breakout.

What is your evidence that "Trump had Iran broke"?

Has anyone besides Trump said that?

You think Biden gave Iran 6 billion dollars ???????


And so your advice is for the US to declare war on Iran, unable to imagine what the international response to that might be?

Please provide your source. Please also provide opposing views that Biden did give Iran billions of dollars and Biden did stop imposing sanctions on Iran selling their oil to other countries. Biden opened up their income stream, a stream Trump had closed.


No, I am saying attack their income source and break them financially. It would be Iran making a decision to wage a war on us after we weaken them.

[Luvnit2]

As I said, Biden back in 2021 lifted sanctions on Iran. Why? Do the math, 3 years of lifted sanctions = 150 billion dollars Biden gave Iran to finance terrorist cells.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-giving-powerful-us-financial-sanctions-iran-opinion-1618887

Biden is Giving Up Powerful U.S. Financial Sanctions on Iran | Opinion
Aug 13, 2021 at 7:00 AM EDT
Since taking office, the Biden administration has taken a series of calculated steps to rejoin the Iran nuclear deal. Most recently, it waived sanctions on the Iranian oil trade, allowing Tehran access to frozen funds in foreign banks that it can now use to fund terrorism. Even the sanctions that remain on the books are not being enforced. U.S. financial sanctions can be used to end Iran's nuclear ambitions and the clerical regime's support of terrorism.

As the world's preeminent financial power, the United States has a responsibility to work to deny Iran the financial resources it needs to build a nuclear program, develop ballistic missiles and support terrorism and terrorist proxies.
Sanctions generally aim to change behavior or deny the enemy something it wants for nefarious purposes. This economic and foreign policy tool is uniquely powerful for us, due to the importance of the dollar and the U.S. financial system.

In the modern global economy, every country needs to participate in the world's financial system. We are fortunate that the U.S. is at the center of that system. This position makes financial sanctions a powerful tool that the U.S. can use to curb the behavior of rogue nations like Iran. For example, the sanctions we imposed on Iranian oil in mid-2018 caused a precipitous drop in Iranian exports. These sanctions became even more meaningful in 2019 when the Trump administration announced that Japan, South Korea, Turkey, China and India would no longer be exempt from penalties if they continued to import oil from Iran. These sanctions alone deprived the regime of as much as $50 billion annually.

[Matt_Crimson]

Biden has now said that striking within Iran is on the table. Whether that'll actually happen or not is anyone's guess, but it is an interesting development.

[HarleyDog]

(01-29-2024, 09:21 AM)pally Wrote:  But, I would never want or expect the United States to wage all out war because of the loss of 3 men. 

Why not? They are not collateral damage. They were the target. I believe 1 soldiers' life matters and should be defended. I think maybe too many people think soldiers are expendable. So, how many have to die before it's necessary to neutralize the threat? Do we just let it go on because we don't want a higher body count? I can guarantee you; their brethren do not feel the same way as you do.

I don't want war either. But, soldiers lives must be defended against hostile actions regardless of how frightening tomorrow may be. 

[*pally*]

(01-29-2024, 08:47 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Why not? They are not collateral damage. They were the target. I believe 1 soldiers' life matters and should be defended. I think maybe too many people think soldiers are expendable. So, how many have to die before it's necessary to neutralize the threat? Do we just let it go on because we don't want a higher body count? I can guarantee you; their brethren do not feel the same way as you do.

I don't want war either. But, soldiers lives must be defended against hostile actions regardless of how frightening tomorrow may be. 

Where did I say not to defend the loss of the soldiers?  I believe I said multiple times I expect a proportional response

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-29-2024, 07:06 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Biden has now said that striking within Iran is on the table. Whether that'll actually happen or not is anyone's guess, but it is an interesting development.

I would hope he doesn’t unless congress does their job and declares war or at least votes to approve one of those AUMFs like they did for most of our recent shit shows. Authorization for use of military force.

[*Nately120*]

(01-29-2024, 07:06 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Biden has now said that striking within Iran is on the table. Whether that'll actually happen or not is anyone's guess, but it is an interesting development.

Watch Biden fulfil the decades-long conservative wet dream of bombing Iran only for Trump to point out that he's the only president that didn't get us into a war and he would have "art of the deal-ed" his way into a resolution where Iran gave us all their oil or something. 

[GMDino]

Biden should follow Reagan's lead!

Pull all the troops and go home with your tail between your legs.

[Luvnit2]

This is beyond sad and unacceptable.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/parents-fallen-soldier-remember-daughter-killed-drone-strike-awaiting-call-biden

Parents of fallen soldier remember daughter killed in drone strike, awaiting call from Biden
Spc. Kennedy Ladon Sanders killed alongside two of her fellow soldiers at base in Jordan, near Syrian border

[Luvnit2]

(01-29-2024, 09:32 PM)pally Wrote: Where did I say not to defend the loss of the soldiers?  I believe I said multiple times I expect a proportional response

I ask again, what is the loss of life for 3 soldiers and at least 34 injured proportional response look like? How much value to put on the 3 African Americans killed in Jordan? How much value should the POTUS put on their loss of life?

[Dill]

(01-29-2024, 04:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Please provide your source. Please also provide opposing views that Biden did give Iran billions of dollars and Biden did stop imposing sanctions on Iran selling their oil to other countries. Biden opened up their income stream, a stream Trump had closed.
No, I am saying attack their income source and break them financially. It would be Iran making a decision to wage a war on us after we weaken them.

One question at a time. Looks like I'll need several sources.

First, one to establish that the JCPOA extended breakout time from a few months to at least a year. The deal was also an empowering win for Iranian "moderates," not to mention one of US greatest diplomatic achievements in history, getting Russia, China, GB, France and EU all to commit.
From 2016  https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/issues/foreign-policy/iran-deal
Also, Israel's foreign policy intel agency, the Mossad, agreed the deal was a good one. (Netanyahu did not)

Then multiple sources indicating where we are now.


https://armscontrolcenter.org/the-iran-deal-then-and-now/

Iran held to the deal on its own for two years after Trump broke it, then began ignoring it. Two months ago, the timeline had shrunk to "days":
https://time.com/6344430/israel-hamas-war-iran-nuclear-breakout/
Now the Institute for Science and International Security, using IEAE data, assesses that it has been reduced to zero.
https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/iranian-breakout-timeline-now-at-zero/

The "far right" Heritage Foundation apparently agrees with this assessment, and recognizes a nuclear Iran fundamental alters the balance of
power in the region, but faults Biden's efforts to resurrect the deal, forgetting to mention why it needed to be "resurrected."  
https://www.heritage.org/middle-east/commentary/irans-breakout-timeline-has-reached-zero

The sanctions you complain Biden lifted were an effort to revive the deal. 
But Trump broke US credibility when he broke the deal Iran was keeping. His Taliban deal was small potatoes compared to this disaster.

So a further problem is now that all those allies on board with the first deal are not inclined to join the erratic US on a second one. And it is difficult getting them to maintain existing sanctions going forward. Good luck getting Russia to re-sign as long as we are helping Ukraine. 

Not to mention that within Iran, the moderates were disgraced for believing the US could be trusted, ceding their limited control of foreign policy to the Iranian far right. 

A final note: one component of reducing Iran's nuclear threat was controlling its threat environment, so that it was not pushed to enrich. Trump effed that up, majorly.

[*pally*]

(01-30-2024, 02:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is beyond sad and unacceptable.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/parents-fallen-soldier-remember-daughter-killed-drone-strike-awaiting-call-biden

Parents of fallen soldier remember daughter killed in drone strike, awaiting call from Biden
Spc. Kennedy Ladon Sanders killed alongside two of her fellow soldiers at base in Jordan, near Syrian border

Sometimes you need to actually read the article instead of just reacting to a misleading headline

Quote:She mentioned the pair needed to complete paperwork before speaking with President Biden, but since the interview aired, White House national security spokesman John Kirby confirmed Biden had spoken to each of the families directly. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4437639-biden-speaks-with-families-of-troops-killed-in-jordan-will-attend-dignified-transfer/

[*pally*]

(01-30-2024, 02:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I ask again, what is the loss of life for 3 soldiers and at least 34 injured proportional response look like? How much value to put on the 3 African Americans killed in Jordan? How much value should the POTUS put on their loss of life?

Proportional means going after air bases, training camps, command and control centers....all military targets.

And should the response for African American soldiers be different than that of white soldiers? I only ask because you seemed to think their race should have something to do with it

[Dill]

(01-30-2024, 02:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I ask again, what is the loss of life for 3 soldiers and at least 34 injured proportional response look like? How much value to put on the 3 African Americans killed in Jordan? How much value should the POTUS put on their loss of life?

I think for the GOP it depends on where they are killed and who is president.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/three-green-berets-killed-two-wounded-in-niger-ambush

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cia-witnesses-offer-more-evidence-benghazi-attack-planned

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/23/reagan-condemns-beirut-bombing-oct-23-1983-921655