Time to trust "The Process"

[Shake n Blake]

(03-12-2017, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From '06 through '16 the Bengals allowed a sack every 16.56 attempts.  That ranks in the top 10 in the league over that period.

Where in the top 10? I'm going to assume 10th. So above average in pass blocking. That does not excuse being ranked 25th on average in YPC when this is a run first team.

Above average pass blocking + terrible run blocking (on a run first team) = PA is doing a poor job.

Btw...did you really add up 11 years worth of attempts and sacks for all 32 teams, then divide them and rank them in 3 hours? I'd like to see your work.

[*bengalfan74*]

Trust the process ? LOL

There's nothing about this team that I trust except for the fact that we will continue to be failures under Mike Brown.

This team is heading in the wrong direction fast.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 07:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Btw...did you really add up 11 years worth of attempts and sacks for all 32 teams, then divide them and rank them in 3 hours? I'd like to see your work.

Profootballreference gave me the team totals for attempts and sacks fron '06-'16.  I had to do the "attempts per sack" for each individual team.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-12-2017, 08:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Trust the process ? LOL

There's nothing about this team that I trust except for the fact that we will continue to be failures under Mike Brown.

This team is heading in the wrong direction fast.

I trust them to make the worst decision possible.  How's that for trust?

[GodFather]

(03-12-2017, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  But I just have to trust "The Process".

Translated: "Well there isn't shit ya can do about it anyway"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Fred, do you remember 2008? The team cut Willie Anderson in favor of Stacy Andrews. The year prior, they didn't re-sign Eric Steinbach.

Week 3 is when Carson got his elbow ripped apart. I guess that will be the over/under for McCarron replacing an injured Dalton.

Some process.

[HarleyDog]

(03-12-2017, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From '06 through '16 the Bengals allowed a sack every 16.56 attempts.  That ranks in the top 10 in the league over that period.

41 sacks last year Fred. That was with Whit and Z. 2017 should scare the hell out of everyone now, especially Andy. He says to the press he's not worried because he has to be a leader and show confidence. I would be pretty concerned over my career and pretty pissed at those who thought my health and career was worth comp picks and saving a few bucks. Doesn't send a positive message to a franchise QB. He could reach over 50 sacks next year if he makes it that long.

[BengalsRocker]

[*Go Cards*]

He may rarely miss on first and second round OL.

But that is not saying a whole lot. It is one of the easier positions to find the studs.

If you are big enough with good college track record, great strength, great agility and athleticism that is head and shoulders above the rest ?

It usually pans out barring injury unlike QB's, CB's, WR's and such who are whiffed on regularly.

Finding them in later rounds is way more impressive.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 09:38 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Fred, do you remember 2008?  The team cut Willie Anderson in favor of Stacy Andrews. The year prior, they didn't re-sign Eric Steinbach.

Yeah, I remember that Willie was a washed up cripple who never played another snap after that season, and Stacey Andrews played well enough to get a 6 year $40 million (in '09 dollars) contract in free agency.  Which do you think they should have kept?

And in '07 they could not afford to re-sign Steinbach (who was the second highest paid guard in the league) because they had re-signed or extended the other four startering O-linemen including contracts that made Levi Jones (6 year $40 million '06) and Willie Anderson (5 year $32million '05) the highest paid OT duo in the league.  Bobbie Williams was given a 3 year extension in '06 and Rich Braham got a 2 year extension in '05.

That great O-line was not destroyed by cheapnessor bad decisions.  It crumbled due to injuries.   In just two years Braham, Jones, and Anderson were all either gone or crippled due to injuries.  If all of those guys had not gotten injured we would have plugged Whit in for Steinbach and not missed a beat.

[RASCAL]

(03-12-2017, 01:56 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  


26 years?

The Bengals have changed the way the approach building a team since then.

really??? where are the wins??? and I am NOT interested in regular season wins, you know, the ones that get us to the real part of the season!

[Shake n Blake]

(03-12-2017, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I remember that Willie was a washed up cripple who never played another snap after that season, and Stacey Andrews played well enough to get a 6 year $40 million (in '09 dollars) contract in free agency.  Which do you think they should have kept?

Willie started 11 games for the Ravens that year, and they begged him not to retire in 2009. Washed up cripple is more than a bit harsh, and there's no way of knowing whether or not Willie would've retired had he remained a Bengal. 

If the Bengals thought so highly of Andrews, why didn't they keep him?

[Murdock2420]

(03-12-2017, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I remember that Willie was a washed up cripple who never played another snap after that season

I mean sure...unless you count the 10 games he started for the Ravens that season...you know just a season where they went 11-5 while the Bengals after bungling the line moves went 4-11-1. 

On May 13, 2009, the Ravens placed him on the reserved-retired list. The Ravens asked Anderson to reconsider his retirement, but he stated that "wanting to spend more time with his son as a reason not to."



But yeah, lots of playoff bound teams ask washed up cripples who have been starting to reconsider retirement......


Just stop talking now Fred, you are getting worse than Hobsin with the bs.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-12-2017, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I remember that Willie was a washed up cripple who never played another snap after that season, and Stacey Andrews played well enough to get a 6 year $40 million (in '09 dollars) contract in free agency.  Which do you think they should have kept?

And in '07 they could not afford to re-sign Steinbach (who was the second highest paid guard in the league) because they had re-signed or extended the other four startering O-linemen including contracts that made Levi Jones (6 year $40 million '06) and Willie Anderson (5 year $32million '05) the highest paid OT duo in the league.  Bobbie Williams was given a 3 year extension in '06 and Rich Braham got a 2 year extension in '05.

That great O-line was not destroyed by cheapnessor bad decisions.  It crumbled due to injuries.   In just two years Braham, Jones, and Anderson were all either gone or crippled due to injuries.  If all of those guys had not gotten injured we would have plugged Whit in for Steinbach and not missed a beat.

Stacey Andrews wasn't even average. He was a project that failed to develop under "the process" plus he was coming back from a serious knee injury. I don't give a shit how much Philly gave Andrews because the fact they made a mistake doesn't affect his play on the field and suddenly make him better. Plus they paid him to play guard because they saw him play tackle and knew they didn't want him to play tackle. They realized their mistake and got rid of him after one season. He was one of those free agent failures you squeal about every year and "the process" franchised tagged his sorry ass making him Top 5 paid tackle. Ruminate on that. Stacy ***** Andrews. Top 5 LT money to suck at RT. Plus the Eagles didn't bench an All Pro guard behind Nate Livings who was even shittier than Andrews like the process did. Look up how much cap space they pocketed in 2008 and then tell me they couldn't afford Steinbach.

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2017, 06:45 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  Plus the Eagles didn't bench an All Pro guard behind Nate Livings who was even shittier than Andrews like the process did.

Neither did the Bengals.

that is what is so frustrating about this place.  People refuse to deal with reality and instead believe everything they read on a message board.

Paul alexander has produces several o-linemen who have gotten paid very wellby multiple other NFL teams, but they guys around here who can't even keep simple facts straight claim they know more than the GMs of every team in the league who keep paying well for ex-bengal O-linemen.

(03-13-2017, 06:45 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  Plus the Eagles didn't bench an All Pro guard behind Nate Livings who was even shittier than Andrews like the process did. Look up how much cap space they pocketed in 2008 and then tell me they couldn't afford Steinbach.

you look it up and tell me.  You seem to have a problem getting your facts straight.  Maybe if you actually looked something up yourself you would get the story straight.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-12-2017, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's still really really easy to judge Marv.

Horrible vs Steelers record.
Horrible prime time record.
0-7 Postseason record.
One of the worst game managers around.

"Halftime adjustments are just journalistic jargon."

...."Because of the media, concussions seem to linger longer"

[Crowe]

(03-12-2017, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We just have to have faith and trust Paul "The Process" Alexander.

In over 20 years as an O-line coach he has never had a a first or second round draft pick flop. So based in history both Cedric and Jake should develop into at least solid NFL starters.

We should also remember '09 when Paul's O-line featured....A second year undrafted free agent at center with zero NFL starts (Cook)...a second year undrafted free agent at guard with 6 career starts (Livings)... a journeyman OG who had been cut by the Panthers and was on his 3rd team in 3 years (Mathis)...a second year fourth round pick at OT with 6 career starts (Anthony Collins)...and a second year undrafted free agent with one career start at OT (Roland). They also had Bobbie williams and whitworth, but that team was coming off a 4 win season. No one expected them to sweep the division with that pile of scraps making up the O-line. But when you have a guru like Paul Alexander running the O-line anything is possible.

I have stated before that it would be scary if we lost both Whit and Zeitler.  I have not changed my mind.  But I just have to trust "The Process".

It's crazy how no one want's to actually give Ced or Fisher a chance. It was Cedric's real first action in over a year and a half, yes they put him in some jumbo packages at the end of his rookie year, but that wasn't enough to get a real feel for the game, then he missed all of pre-season with a toe injury, I have faith that he will improve this year, yes he will not be as good as Whit was at least not this season, but he could do well in his own right. With Fisher, he has been used in quite a few roles, I think now that he is getting a real shot to be the full time starter at RT he should improve, and if that's the case then the RT position will be better than it was the last 2 seasons. I also see people wanting to draft a guard high, but remember we grabbed Westerman last year, plus we still have Hopkins who the coaches really like. It's time to see the youngsters get a chance. The only position I'm all for upgrading is C as Bodine has had 3 years to prove he's the guy, he might be better suited moving to a reserve C/G position.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-12-2017, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I remember that Willie was a washed up cripple who never played another snap after that season, and Stacey Andrews played well enough to get a 6 year $40 million (in '09 dollars) contract in free agency.  Which do you think they should have kept?

And in '07 they could not afford to re-sign Steinbach (who was the second highest paid guard in the league) because they had re-signed or extended the other four startering O-linemen including contracts that made Levi Jones (6 year $40 million '06) and Willie Anderson (5 year $32million '05) the highest paid OT duo in the league.  Bobbie Williams was given a 3 year extension in '06 and Rich Braham got a 2 year extension in '05.

That great O-line was not destroyed by cheapnessor bad decisions.  It crumbled due to injuries.   In just two years Braham, Jones, and Anderson were all either gone or crippled due to injuries.  If all of those guys had not gotten injured we would have plugged Whit in for Steinbach and not missed a beat.

Oh yes he did play.  How do you not know that he went to the Ravens after that?

[BonnieBengal]

(03-13-2017, 08:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Paul alexander has produces several o-linemen who have gotten paid very wellby multiple other NFL teams, but they guys around here who can't even keep simple facts straight claim they know more than the GMs of every team in the league who keep paying well for ex-bengal O-linemen.

But not by the Bengals, because they are cheap.  We're everybody's farm team. I don't see much talent in Alexander at all. But if he can turn Ogbuehi around I'll change my mind. He certainly couldn't do it last year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-13-2017, 08:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither did the Bengals.

that is what is so frustrating about this place.  People refuse to deal with reality and instead believe everything they read on a message board.

Paul alexander has produces several o-linemen who have gotten paid very wellby multiple other NFL teams, but they guys around here who can't even keep simple facts straight claim they know more than the GMs of every team in the league who keep paying well for ex-bengal O-linemen.


you look it up and tell me.  You seem to have a problem getting your facts straight.  Maybe if you actually looked something up yourself you would get the story straight.

"The Process" had a multi year All Pro on the bench behind Livings because he either didn't recognize the talent or couldn't coach the talent. I'm no more confused than you with your "crippled" Willie Anderson comment. I'm not the one who claims the Bengals don't pocket cap space, you are. So I'm not surprised you don't want to acknowledge the Bengals had more than enough to pay Steinbach in 2008 despite your claims they couldn't.