To the "trade down" crowd

[fredtoast]

It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been possible.

[*michaelsean*]

I’m sure they got some decent offers, but if you think you have a potential superstar QB then you gotta take your chances. If people think the Bengals are stupid for passing up really good offers, doesn’t that make the other team stupid for offering?

Edit: My bad. Misread that. We are talking about round two here.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I’m going to be screaming if they reach or pick gross matos.

Otherwise, while I love Jones or Baun there are a number of players at 33 I’d be happy for r even ok with.

But not RB.

Trading down I think is the right move if they can find the right team with the right deal, as I think that even 10 or so spots down will still get them a day 1 starter at a key position.

[RiverRat13]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been.

That's a good point.  There are 10-12 guys that I'd be happy with in the 2nd round.  So a trade back into the low 40's would be fine.  But the teams drafting in that area may feel the same way and see no need to give up an extra pick to move up to 33.

[The Caped Crusader]

I'd assume just about every pick is up for trade offers, definitely the 33rd pick (which is pretty much another first round pick at this point). I would think it would be worth that team's second and fourth. Worth it? I'm not sure.

[Bengalpool]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been.

I would like to think that when most people say "the Bengals should trade down", that they actually mean they should TRY to trade down... I do at least when I say "they should"... I won't be upset if they don't. In fact, I'm not counting on it.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(04-24-2020, 11:06 AM)RiverRat13 Wrote: That's a good point.  There are 10-12 guys that I'd be happy with in the 2nd round.  So a trade back into the low 40's would be fine.  But the teams drafting in that area may feel the same way and see no need to give up an extra pick to move up to 33.

In an ideal world the bengals take a call from the patriots who are going to take a qb today. Jalen hurts or Eason or Gordon are all viable options. I hope that happens and we pick up like 3 picks for 33

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2020, 11:01 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m sure they got some decent offers, but if you think you have a potential superstar QB then you gotta take your chances. If people think the Bengals are stupid for passing up really good offers, doesn’t that make the other team stupid for offering?

I was talking more about moving down in the second round.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing about the #1 pick, but almost everyone agrees we had to take Burrow.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-24-2020, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I was talking more about moving down in the second round.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing about the #1 pick, but almost everyone agrees we had to take Burrow.

Yeah I just realized that. Oops.

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2020, 11:09 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: In an ideal world the bengals take a call from the patriots who are going to take a qb today. 

And they still have SIX picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Four 3rds and two 4ths.

[BurnsBengal]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been possible.

Of course.  Would love to know what they could get for a trade down.  Extra 3rd?  4th?  Packers taking Jordan Love really took some wind out of the trade down sails.  Oh well.

Only guarantee is that we're now back to the portion of the draft where some fans will be happy with the pick and others will be pissed since "their" scouts don't like Player X, Y, or Z.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been possible.

I wouldn't trade more than 6-8 spots and only would do that if I was given a pretty solid 3rd rounder (not a late compensatory) in exchange.  If that deal isn't offered, I agree that they should just stay in place and make the pick.

And the great thing is, with all day to prepare, they can have offers compete against each other..."let me get back to you, we have to compare it to other offers...I will call you back in 10 minutes".  I hope they are hearing that a lot.  

And while I am at it...should they trade back and get that additional 3rd rounder, I STILL want the WR here in Rd 2:

In order:

Mims
Claypool
Pittman/Higgins (tie)

Then, hopefully get a LB like Gay, a safety like Dugger or Chinn in Rd 3, and a G like Lewis in Rd 4.

For those of you that say safety is a luxury and not necessary now that we have Bell:  Williams is in his final year of his contract and played most of his snaps at nickel backer.  That is where I envision Dugger or Chinn and both would be tremendous value at that pick.  I sure as hell don't want Dugger at pitt or balt.  We have not had a ballhawking, playmaking safety since Reggie Nelson and he was more of the center fielder like Bates.  Dugger is an absolute stud and I want that alpha on defense.  

If we came away from today's events with Claypool, Gay jr. and Dugger with Lewis still on the board heading in to day 3, I would probably do something crazy like sell a kidney to buy my season tickets back.  

[*Nately120*]

We need a forward thinking GM who will trade into the 3rd dimension. This up and down stuff is old hat.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-24-2020, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I was talking more about moving down in the second round.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing about the #1 pick, but almost everyone agrees we had to take Burrow.

For me the "real draft" begins at #33.  Taking Joe Burrow was a slam dunk for most but now the critical part begins:  Surrounding him with as much talent as possible.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been possible.

You are totally correct in you have to have a partner.. you are the stats guy so maybe you can find this answer.. how often teams trade out of 1st pick in 2nd round since we went to this draft format.. The reason i believe you have a better chance to trade down now with 33 pick is time.. time for teams to evaluate draft board, how the draft went... especially with teams now not grouped together with the social distancing.. communications and clarity might take more time..

I also see some RB need teams (Seattle/Miami that come to mind) that might want to jump up at 33.. 

[Essex Johnson]

(04-24-2020, 11:43 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: For me the "real draft" begins at #33.  Taking Joe Burrow was a slam dunk for most but now the critical part begins:  Surrounding him with as much talent as possible.

Talent is both sides of the ball, there have been good QBs who never lead their team as well without a solid defense.. im fine surrounding him with players.. but we can;t ignore the other side of the ball for the other... so don;t reach at 33 and we could give him more talent trading back if there is no consensus at 33 and we a good trade offer.. i hope that is in their thinking also

[BurnsBengal]

(04-24-2020, 11:14 AM)BurnsBengal Wrote: Of course.  Would love to know what they could get for a trade down.  Extra 3rd?  4th?  Packers taking Jordan Love really took some wind out of the trade down sails.  Oh well.

Only guarantee is that we're now back to the portion of the draft where some fans will be happy with the pick and others will be pissed since "their" scouts don't like Player X, Y, or Z.

FWIW and for future reference, the "trade value chart" shown HERE has a trade down from 33 about 10 spots should snag you a late 3rd or an early 4th.  Gotta find a partner though.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-24-2020, 11:59 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Talent is both sides of the ball, there have been good QBs who never lead their team as well without a solid defense.. im fine surrounding him with players.. but we can;t ignore the other side of the ball for the other... so don;t reach at 33 and we could give him more talent trading back if there is no consensus at 33 and we a good trade offer.. i hope that is in their thinking also

Thank you for this!  When I wrote of surrounding Joe Burrow with talent I definitely meant on both sides of the ball, not just on offense.  Especially in the AFC North a solid defense is required to be competitive and I find the intersection between the Bengals' last six playoff appearances and Mike Zimmer's tenure in Cincinnati to be non-coincidental. 

If the rest of the draft were up to me I would select a linebacker at #33 and then alternate offensive line and linebacker until the draft is over.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-24-2020, 12:05 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Thank you for this!  When I wrote of surrounding Joe Burrow with talent I definitely meant on both sides of the ball, not just on offense.  Especially in the AFC North a solid defense is required to be competitive and I find the intersection between the Bengals' last six playoff appearances and Mike Zimmer's tenure in Cincinnati to be non-coincidental. 

If the rest of the draft were up to me I would select a linebacker at #33 and then alternate offensive line and linebacker until the draft is over.

I do like Baun at 33 more than Jones but I understand the concern for tackles... but if there is a split on 33, and a good trade offer comes I believe we can still is one of them 5 to 7 spots back plus add 3 or 4th round pick.. i would be good with that

[SadFaceBengal15]

(04-24-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absolutely valid to have the opinion that the best move for the Bengals is to trade down and get an extra pick.  I have suggested they do that at times in the past.  But what we should be saying is that the Bengals should TRY to trade down.  It takes two teams to trade and many times there just is not another team willing to give up a pick to move up.

So it is fine to suggest the Bengals should trade down, but if they don't you really can't criticize them for not doing it because it may not have been possible.

Lol where would we be without ur posts