Tobin in the hotseat?

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

Whilst everyone is baying for Jim Turner, Zac Taylor and/or Lou Anarumo's blood, it is difficult to make in season changes. You don't have time to implement new schemes, there are limited options as teams won't release coaches mid-season and teams are therefore often limited to in-house appointments.

What changes can be made today?

Well the obvious one to me is firing Duke Tobin. Do you want him overseeing the next draft - a likely top 10 pick again - when he's been responsible for drafting Ogbuehi, Price, Ross etc? He's the one responsible for the (lack of) talent on the o-line that 3 successive O-line coaches have struggled with. If Taylor goes at the end of the season, do you want him choosing Zac's replacement?

We all know the problems with drafting. That the Bengals whiffed on their first round pick 3 out of 4 years (the more recent ones are too recent to score) and that it's been 7 drafts since the Bengals last selected a Pro-Bowler. Burrow should change that but that shouldn't be enough to absolve the front office of blame for a string of disappointing drafts.

The roster management has been abysmal - from carrying two kickers now, to the mess they've made with QBs (holding onto Dolegala all last year only to cut him; trading up for Finley, only to draft a QB one overall the following year) and betrays a lack of planning. The Bengals are spending less on the O-line this year with a rookie superstar QB than they did last year with a QB on a veteran deal and an O-line that sucked. They are paying more for the back-up running back than they are at Guard (XSF, Jordan, Johnson and Calhoun) and then wondering why they can't run the ball or keep their face of the franchise clean.

And it's not just money but also draft capital - in the last 8 years they've spent 3x2nd round picks, 1x4th round pick (Mark Walton!), 3x6th round picks on RB whilst spending 1x1st (Billy Price), 2x4ths (Bodine and Jordan), 3x5th (JJ Dielman, Tanner Hawkinson, Westerman), and 2x7ths (Rod Taylor and TJ Johnson) on the three interior line positions - during which period they also let Zeitler walk.


If the right replacement for Tobin is out there (and I don't know who that would be, suggestions welcome) it would make a lot of sense to get them in now so they can assess the roster - and coaching staff - and prepare for the draft now.

[Big Boss]

He's here for life.

[Hammerstripes]

I agree with the draft busts, but the Bengals do place a lot of emphasis on the position coach's opinion. Alexander was a huge fan of Fisher and Ced. Those 2 picks really set this franchise back a few years. The Price pick as well. That's 3 high picks that busted. You can't have that.

[*PhilHos*]

I was hoping this was a news story with the front office saying he's on the hot seat. PhilHos sad now.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 03:29 PM)Big Boss Wrote: He's here for life.

^

Well... unless we can catch Mike Brown saying or doing something so horribly against the politically correct cancel culture that he is forced to sell the team.... Then... then there is hope.

[Wes Mantooth]

This team needs a GM. A real one.

Whether you fire this coach, that coach, or Duke Tobin, the problem is the person/people that is going to be doing the hiring is completely ill-equipped and not at all qualified to making hiring decisions.

While I do want a number of these people gone, I have no faith in the Front Office to bring anyone actually worthy of the position.

They need to bring a legitimate GM, who has years of real experience and success to run the whole show from the top down. Then allow this person to build out his entire staff, from the coaches, to the scouts, to the players.

Mike Brown, and Katie and Troy Blackburn, need to be completely removed from any football related decisions. Until that happens, I fear it really doesn't matter what they do with Duke Tobin and his skeleton screw of douche-nozzles they call a scouting department.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 03:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This team needs a GM.  A real one.

Whether you fire this coach, that coach, or Duke Tobin, the problem is the person/people that is going to be doing the hiring is completely ill-equipped and not at all qualified to making hiring decisions.

While I do want a number of these people gone, I have no faith in the Front Office to bring anyone actually worthy of the position.

They need to bring a legitimate GM, who has years of real experience and success to run the whole show from the top down.  Then allow this person to build out his entire staff, from the coaches, to the scouts, to the players.

Mike Brown, and Katie and Troy Blackburn, need to be completely removed from any football related decisions.  Until that happens, I fear it really doesn't matter what they do with Duke Tobin and his skeleton screw of douche-nozzles they call a scouting department.

We have a winner!!!

They could fire every coach and cut every player that is under performing and still wouldn't get but 1 in 4 correct in replacing them.

[sonofstat]

(09-28-2020, 03:27 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Whilst everyone is baying for Jim Turner, Zac Taylor and/or Lou Anarumo's blood, it is difficult to make in season changes. You don't have time to implement new schemes, there are limited options as teams won't release coaches mid-season and teams are therefore often limited to in-house appointments.

What changes can be made today?

Well the obvious one to me is firing Duke Tobin. Do you want him overseeing the next draft - a likely top 10 pick again - when he's been responsible for drafting Ogbuehi, Price, Ross etc? He's the one responsible for the (lack of) talent on the o-line that 3 successive O-line coaches have struggled with. If Taylor goes at the end of the season, do you want him choosing Zac's replacement?

We all know the problems with drafting. That the Bengals whiffed on their first round pick 3 out of 4 years (the more recent ones are too recent to score) and that it's been 7 drafts since the Bengals last selected a Pro-Bowler. Burrow should change that but that shouldn't be enough to absolve the front office of blame for a string of disappointing drafts.

The roster management has been abysmal - from carrying two kickers now, to the mess they've made with QBs (holding onto Dolegala all last year only to cut him; trading up for Finley, only to draft a QB one overall the following year) and betrays a lack of planning. The Bengals are spending less on the O-line this year with a rookie superstar QB than they did last year with a QB on a veteran deal and an O-line that sucked. They are paying more for the back-up running back than they are at Guard (XSF, Jordan, Johnson and Calhoun) and then wondering why they can't run the ball or keep their face of the franchise clean.

And it's not just money but also draft capital - in the last 8 years they've spent 3x2nd round picks, 1x4th round pick (Mark Walton!), 3x6th round picks on RB whilst spending 1x1st (Billy Price), 2x4ths (Bodine and Jordan), 3x5th (JJ Dielman, Tanner Hawkinson, Westerman), and 2x7ths (Rod Taylor and TJ Johnson) on the three interior line positions - during which period they also let Zeitler walk.


If the right replacement for Tobin is out there (and I don't know who that would be, suggestions welcome) it would make a lot of sense to get them in now so they can assess the roster - and coaching staff - and prepare for the draft now.

True, we have not had any transformational drafts recently.

getting 1, 2 decent starters per draft plus a backup was fine when we were living off the drafts from early 2010's and the squad strength and depth was good.  

I do put onto Tobin the long term drafting/FA activity of certain position groups like OL and LB which has been truly awful for a number of years.

This year has felt different though - the consensus did seem to be with drafting and FA the coaching staff have got talent to work with..so right now in 2020 my feeling is that ZT is more deserving of the hotseat than Tobin

[CorpusChristiBengal]

(09-28-2020, 03:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Well... unless we can catch Mike Brown saying or doing something so horribly against the politically correct cancel culture that he is forced to sell the team.... Then... then there is hope.

Doesn't take much it seems, in this country's association football pyramid a guy was recently forced to sell everything because he disagreed with the strikes.
Soccer is probably a different audience though.
Although, I didn't see messages on our players helmets. Im surprised combined with the no kneeling thing the Twitter police hasn't come for MB's head.

(09-28-2020, 03:27 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: If the right replacement for Tobin is out there (and I don't know who that would be, suggestions welcome) it would make a lot of sense to get them in now so they can assess the roster - and coaching staff - and prepare for the draft now.

Dorsey is still out there if you want to try that again.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: ^

Well... unless we can catch Mike Brown saying or doing something so horribly against the politically correct cancel culture that he is forced to sell the team.... Then... then there is hope.

Maybe one of our female posters want to claim Brown sexually assaulted them? (I was going to say "Brown Bidened them" but I didn't want to bring politics into Jungle Noise; you're welcome).

[CorpusChristiBengal]

We could always just change teams and stop giving them our money until they improve their staff or sell. I probably would have already but it's expensive to get decked out in new gear.

[WeezyBengal]

(09-28-2020, 03:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This team needs a GM.  A real one.

Whether you fire this coach, that coach, or Duke Tobin, the problem is the person/people that is going to be doing the hiring is completely ill-equipped and not at all qualified to making hiring decisions.

While I do want a number of these people gone, I have no faith in the Front Office to bring anyone actually worthy of the position.

They need to bring a legitimate GM, who has years of real experience and success to run the whole show from the top down.  Then allow this person to build out his entire staff, from the coaches, to the scouts, to the players.

Mike Brown, and Katie and Troy Blackburn, need to be completely removed from any football related decisions.  Until that happens, I fear it really doesn't matter what they do with Duke Tobin and his skeleton screw of douche-nozzles they call a scouting department.

Man - you just get it. 

This is exactly right. It doesn't matter if the coach or Tobin is fired. As long as the family and Browns continue making decisions, they will continue to make bad ones. This team does need a GOOD GM and the family needs to be completely hands off of football moves. 

[jj22]

He hasn't drafted a probowler since 2013. Who would still have their GM position with that record (I know it's a popularity contest but still).

[Au165]

(09-28-2020, 04:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: He hasn't drafted a probowler since 2013. Who would still have their GM position with that record (I know it's a popularity contest but still).

He will have one this year with Burrow, but I do agree he just has not hit well recently.

Side Note: Brandon Wilson got snubbed as a kick returner last year and is again the best returner in football this year.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:27 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Whilst everyone is baying for Jim Turner, Zac Taylor and/or Lou Anarumo's blood, it is difficult to make in season changes. You don't have time to implement new schemes, there are limited options as teams won't release coaches mid-season and teams are therefore often limited to in-house appointments.

What changes can be made today?

Well the obvious one to me is firing Duke Tobin. Do you want him overseeing the next draft - a likely top 10 pick again - when he's been responsible for drafting Ogbuehi, Price, Ross etc? He's the one responsible for the (lack of) talent on the o-line that 3 successive O-line coaches have struggled with. If Taylor goes at the end of the season, do you want him choosing Zac's replacement?

We all know the problems with drafting. That the Bengals whiffed on their first round pick 3 out of 4 years (the more recent ones are too recent to score) and that it's been 7 drafts since the Bengals last selected a Pro-Bowler. Burrow should change that but that shouldn't be enough to absolve the front office of blame for a string of disappointing drafts.

The roster management has been abysmal - from carrying two kickers now, to the mess they've made with QBs (holding onto Dolegala all last year only to cut him; trading up for Finley, only to draft a QB one overall the following year) and betrays a lack of planning. The Bengals are spending less on the O-line this year with a rookie superstar QB than they did last year with a QB on a veteran deal and an O-line that sucked. They are paying more for the back-up running back than they are at Guard (XSF, Jordan, Johnson and Calhoun) and then wondering why they can't run the ball or keep their face of the franchise clean.

And it's not just money but also draft capital - in the last 8 years they've spent 3x2nd round picks, 1x4th round pick (Mark Walton!), 3x6th round picks on RB whilst spending 1x1st (Billy Price), 2x4ths (Bodine and Jordan), 3x5th (JJ Dielman, Tanner Hawkinson, Westerman), and 2x7ths (Rod Taylor and TJ Johnson) on the three interior line positions - during which period they also let Zeitler walk.


If the right replacement for Tobin is out there (and I don't know who that would be, suggestions welcome) it would make a lot of sense to get them in now so they can assess the roster - and coaching staff - and prepare for the draft now.

I don't think replacing Tobin in the middle of the season will have any impact on this season, but I definitely think there should be (strong) consideration for a replacement this coming offseason.

I don't know how the decision-making goes in terms of draft picks and FAs, but one has to think Tobin and Taylor have the biggest decision-making power. I also think though that Anarumo and Turner have had some say in the players they have acquired/kept.

I think this team suffers from thinking they can turn water into wine, at least at certain positions.
While Marvin was HC, it was the LBs. Rarely going after a LB in the 1st or 2nd round, but not having much success with those mid-to-late round guys.
Now, it's OL with Turner. This belief that the Bengals can groom a quality OL with a 4th round LG in Jordan, 6th round RT in Hart, UDFA RG with Johnson, and reclamation bargain-bin FA in XSF (prior to injury). I didn't include Price in this because he was a 1st rounder prior to the current regime and the team sticks with their 1st rounders through their rookie contracts regardless. But Price has been worse than everyone else who has played this year.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but the Bengals need someone making decisions with more logic, less trust. These coaches have not earned the trust that they can groom late-round picks and/or low-end starters/backups into good starters. As such, they need someone who takes the approach that if a starter is bad, they need to allocate a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick or proven veteran FA to that position. Trade away the late-round picks to have more Rd 1-4 picks. Spend money on a couple upper-tier guys in FA.

[*psychdoctor*]

Who would replace Tobin?

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 04:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Who would replace Tobin?

I think Troy Blackburn has a nephew that is looking for work.

[jj22]

(09-28-2020, 04:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Who would replace Tobin?

Some past successful GM's son. Or another Brown.

[Nicomo Cosca]

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 04:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Who would replace Tobin?

John Dorsey is sitting at home...