Transgender teen Mack Beggs wins Texas state wrestling title

[*bfine32*]

(02-28-2017, 05:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: NFL players can use albuterol or methylphenidate with a therapeutic use exemption (for example) even though both are PEDs.

If exogenous testosterone for a therapeutic purpose raises a player's deficient testoserone level into the normal range, but not above, in order to treat a legitimite medical condition, why shouldn't they be allowed to compete the same as any other therapeutic use exemption?

I can argue toradol (for pain) is a PED because the player can participate at a higher performance level than than they otherwise could because of a drug improving their pain tolerance and thus their performance on the field.

So no more pain meds, suck it up or sit the bench.

Just an opinion to a question asked and i didn't mention Professional sports. Drug dosage and usage can be masked by synthetics, ect... A baseline should be established. Not to mention possible side affect by motivating someone the get within range. BTW what are the left and right limits of this range? I get it is not a liberal answer and excludes folks, but there are other competitions.

For instance when I wrestled there was a blind kid in our conference. He was allowed to wrestle, but his opponent had to maintain contact with him at all times. To me he was given an unfair advantage, much as someone on synthetic (designer or whatever word I should use) steriods could be.

pain meds is a different story; however I also agree they should not be allowed to let a youngster participate.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I understand it is an opinion. I'm just trying to understand it. The way I see it Drug X and Drug Y are both PEDs which have a legitimate medical use. If they are used to treat a medical condition as intended, why would one receive a therapeutic use exemption and not the other?

[CKwi88]

(02-28-2017, 05:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: NFL players can use albuterol or methylphenidate with a therapeutic use exemption (for example) even though both are PEDs.

If exogenous testosterone for a therapeutic purpose raises a player's deficient testoserone level into the normal range, but not above, in order to treat a legitimite medical condition, why shouldn't they be allowed to compete the same as any other therapeutic use exemption?

This is my line of thinking. The testosterone in question here is only enhancing his performance over his competitors because of the rule that Texas has in place. If they just simply let him wrestle against other boys, the testosterone treatment would at best put him on equal footing as his competitors. It's amazing that even with effective rules in place at both the NCAA and Olympic levels that this is even a topic and we have people suggesting treating people as second-class athletes through no fault of their own. 

Essentially, Texas has a stupid rule put in place, naturally something stupid happens because of it, and now people are upset at the person who probably wishes that they weren't put into the position they unfortunately find themselves in, rather than the flawed rule.   

[*bfine32*]

(02-28-2017, 06:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I understand it is an opinion. I'm just trying to understand it. The way I see it Drug X and Drug Y are both PEDs which have a legitimate medical use. If they are used to treat a medical condition as intended, why would one receive a therapeutic use exemption and not the other?

You got to clarify the question. You mentioned they should be allowed to use to move testosterone into the normal range. What are the left and right limits of the normal range? I fthere is a range then I think we could both easily see how one could be used to enhance performance. And once again I'm talking about children, not the pro athlete you used as an example.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 09:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You got to clarify the question. You mentioned they should be allowed to use to move testosterone into the normal range. What are the left and right limits of the normal range? I fthere is a range then I think we could both easily see how one could be used to enhance performance. And once again I'm talking about children, not the pro athlete you used as an example.

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83686

You can find the reference ranges there. If someone is taking testosterone for a medical condition in a therapeutic manner and their subsequent lab values are a near the upper limit of normal, they are still normal. Are you suggesting action should be taken against someone whose labs are WNL?

Some children take growth hormone for therapeutic reasons. 

If someone has a medical condition and they are using a medicine in a therapeutic manner to treat a medical condition and their labs (when applicable) are WNL how can you tell the medicine is being used as a PED instead of as a therapeutic medicine as intended?

[*bfine32*]

(02-28-2017, 09:43 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83686

You can find the reference ranges there. If someone is taking testosterone for a medical condition in a therapeutic manner and their subsequent lab values are a near the upper limit of normal, they are still normal. Are you suggesting action should be taken against someone whose labs are WNL?

Is this it:

Quote:TESTOSTERONE, BIOAVAILABLE

Quote:Males
< or =19 years: not established

or is it

14 years: <7-1,200 ng/dL
15-16 years: 100-1,200 ng/dL
17-18 years: 300-1,200 ng/dL

No one has said hormones cannot be used for therapeutic reasons. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. 

[Rotobeast]

(02-28-2017, 03:39 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Real girls don't wrestle. 

(02-28-2017, 03:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: I thought it was "proper girls".  But (luckily) it's been so long I don't remember.  

While somewhat mildy amusing.....
C'mon.... he's not even here.

Just admit that you miss him.
I do.
He adds an amazing dynamic, when not agitated to spicy language.

There's something like 3 1/2 months to go, then you can kick him again.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 09:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is this it:



No one has said hormones cannot be used for therapeutic reasons. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. 

Those are two different reference ranges for two different labs related to testosterone. Hormones like testosterone and growth hormone are PEDs. First you claimed athletes can't take PEDs (which would include testosterone and growth hormone) and now you claim they can take hormones some of which are PEDs. 

If you didn't mean athletes can't take hormones like testosterone and growth hormone for therapeutic reasons why didn't you say so before now instead of asking about the reference ranges?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 10:20 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: While somewhat mildy amusing.....
C'mon.... he's not even here.

Just admit that you miss him.
I do.
He adds an amazing dynamic, when not agitated to spicy language.

There's something like 3 1/2 months to go, then you can kick him again.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

If girls are wrestlers, they're lesbian. 

Do you know the best time to kick a man?  When he's down. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-28-2017, 10:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Those are two different reference ranges for two different labs related to testosterone. Hormones like testosterone and growth hormone are PEDs. First you claimed athletes can't take PEDs (which would include testosterone and growth hormone) and now you claim they can take hormones some of which are PEDs. 

If you didn't mean athletes can't take hormones like testosterone and growth hormone for therapeutic reasons why didn't you say so before now instead of asking about the reference ranges?

Perhaps I was not clear. I have no issue with folks taking hormones or other things that can be considered PEDs for therapeutic reasons. I do not think juvenile competitive athletes should be allowed to take hormones and other PEDs. Sometimes folks have conditions that prevent them from competing on the HS or College level. 

I used the normal range as to demonstrate how someone could use them for a competitive edge. <7-1300 is a pretty wide range. Doc my son has low T. It is 6 we need it to be around 1299 

[Rotobeast]

(02-28-2017, 10:38 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If girls are wrestlers, they're lesbian. 

Do you know the best time to kick a man?  When he's down. 

Still mildy amusing....

Just know I'd stick up for you, too.
I'm not mad or anything.
It's just who I am.

[GMDino]

(02-28-2017, 10:20 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: While somewhat mildy amusing.....
C'mon.... he's not even here.

Just admit that you miss him.
I do.
He adds an amazing dynamic, when not agitated to spicy language.

There's something like 3 1/2 months to go, then you can kick him again.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Puhleeze.  To many post in his "tone".  Someone is posting for him.  

I have no desire to "kick" anyone...however I will remind them of the foolish things they say.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 10:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps I was not clear. I have no issue with folks taking hormones or other things that can be considered PEDs for therapeutic reasons. I do not think juvenile competitive athletes should be allowed to take hormones and other PEDs. Sometimes folks have conditions that prevent them from competing on the HS or College level. 

I used the normal range as to demonstrate how someone could use them for a competitive edge. <7-1300 is a pretty wide range. Doc my son has low T. It is 6 we need it to be around 1299 

Almost anything can be abused, that includes medical care. I would hope parents and doctors would choose what is medically and ethically in the best interests of the athletes. However, I can tell you I have had parents screaming at me because I wouldn't pass their child on a sports physical without some further cardiac testing to rule it a potentially life threatening condition. Screaming to the point other patients were concerned for their own safety. In a case like you suggest, I personally wouldn't treat single, isolated testosterone level only one unit outside of the normal range. That is what we call "essentially normal" because it is a range which varies slight from person to person and some people will be just outside of that range. If it was a child with equivocal results plus delayed puberty or abnormalities of secondary sexual characteristics, I would refer them to a pediatric endocrinologist for an evaluation to determine the cause. But, I'm aware some parents and/or athletes seek short cuts which they aren't going to get from me. Plus, I'm not a pediatric endocrinologist so I'm not prescribing testosterone or growth hormones to kids. That's why they get paid the big bucks. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 11:24 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Still mildy amusing....

Just know I'd stick up for you, too.
I'm not mad or anything.
It's just who I am.

As I would stick up for lesbian wrestlers, transgender boys, Girl Scouts belitted and insulted by grown men, immigrants seeking a better life, or people considered savages because of their religion, place of origin, or ethnic background, girls made to feel they can't accomplish certain tasks because of their sex, or just kids being bullied at school when an teacher looks the other way.

[Rotobeast]

(03-01-2017, 12:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: Puhleeze.  To many post in his "tone".  Someone is posting for him.  

I have no desire to "kick" anyone...however I will remind them of the foolish things they say.

Well, I guess I can't guarantee he's not here.

(03-01-2017, 01:02 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As I would stick up for lesbian wrestlers, transgender boys, Girl Scouts belitted and insulted by grown men, immigrants seeking a better life, or people considered savages because of their religion, place of origin, or ethnic background, girls made to feel they can't accomplish certain tasks because of their sex, or just kids being bullied at school when an teacher looks the other way.

Fair enough.

[Griever]

(02-28-2017, 11:24 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Still mildy amusing....

Just know I'd stick up for you, too.
I'm not mad or anything.
It's just who I am.

roto loves lucie

[Rotobeast]

(03-01-2017, 09:17 AM)Griever Wrote: roto loves lucie

I love you all.
If you guys would hold still, I'd show you.

[BengalHawk62]

(03-01-2017, 11:46 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I love you all.
If you guys would hold still, I'd show you.

The theme to Deliverance just popped in my head.


You got a real purdy mouth.
Squeal like a pig!

[Rotobeast]

(03-01-2017, 01:55 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: The theme to Deliverance just popped in my head.


You got a real purdy mouth.
Squeal like a pig!

Did you know that the bulk of that scene was adlibbed ?
Ned Beatty was emotionally scarred and Voight nearly attacked the guy.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[Griever]

(03-01-2017, 11:46 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I love you all.
If you guys would hold still, I'd show you.

im always holding still, with bated breath