Transgender vets now have a VA clinic

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-06-2015, 11:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you were to look at my next post on this you would see I did not dismiss it after further reading. It may be evidence of this occurring, but it would be the exception to prove the rule. Showing evidence of one person doing it does not prove that laws allowing for use of restrooms based on gender identity would increase the prevalence of this.

Kinda like you're pics are the exceptions to the rule as well?

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 11:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are Transgenders "exceptions to the rule"?

The answer is yes or no.

Should we make laws to support these exceptions?

What rule?

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 11:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Kinda like you're pics are the exceptions to the rule as well?

I wouldn't say that those instances are rare enough to qualify for the saying exception to prove the rule, so no.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2015, 11:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What rule?

I would say you first, as you are the one that brought it up; but what evs.

The rule that most folks with a penis identify as a man and most post with a vagina identify as a woman.

I was kind enough to answer your questions. Hows about answering mine.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 11:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would say you first, as you are the one that brought it up; but what evs.

The rule that most folks with a penis identify as a man and most post with a vagina identify as a woman.

I was kind enough to answer your questions. Hows about answering mine.

The phrase I used was in reference to the idea that allowing trans people use the restroom of the gender they identify as would increase the prevalence of people pretending to be trans to more easily assault people. I claimed it would not. The evidence of one person is a rare instance considering the number of places this is allowed, so it is the exception to prove the rule.

Now, as to your question, you said that "most folks identify", which means a trans person would not be an exception, since saying most leaves room for those not to. No exception to your statement needed.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2015, 11:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The phrase I used was in reference to the idea that allowing trans people use the restroom of the gender they identify as would increase the prevalence of people pretending to be trans to more easily assault people. I claimed it would not. The evidence of one person is a rare instance considering the number of places this is allowed, so it is the exception to prove the rule.

Now, as to your question, you said that "most folks identify", which means a trans person would not be an exception, since saying most leaves room for those not to. No exception to your statement needed.

It's OK I really didn't expect a genuine answer.

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2015, 11:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's OK I really didn't expect a genuine answer.

I am sorry, I thought you wanted an answer to your question, which I did provide. Did you have a different question you intended to ask?

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2015, 11:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am sorry, I thought you wanted an answer to your question, which I did provide. Did you have a different question you intended to ask?

Folks that can read see you answered absolutely nothing.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-06-2015, 11:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What rule?

Oh I don't know, the trans group makes up about 0.03-0.05% of the total population.

I understand that they want to feel equal, but is sacrificing their own safety that important to them? I feel that in the long run it's just going to create more problems for them than it's worth.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 10:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If I recall correctly, a woman didn't like this trans woman in the gym locker room, but there were no actual issues and it was the company that decided to let her use the locker room, not a law. 


Not sure what you're suggesting happened 

You made the comment about how locker rooms had private quarters to change. That's not accurate, planet fitness has an open locker room . With private showers closed off with a curtain.

So this dude changing would bother the real women in there. Like it or not but our society is going to protect women first. Especially befor a man.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-07-2015, 02:05 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Oh I don't know, the trans group makes up about 0.03-0.05% of the total population.

I understand that they want to feel equal, but is sacrificing their own safety that important to them? I feel that in the long run it's just going to create more problems for them than it's worth.

This is exactly right. No reason to put anyone else at risk for such a small group. Go to the unisex or go to where your anatomy takes you.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-06-2015, 11:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: LOL as usual, you ask for evidence of a claim, evidence is supplied, now you have to find something wrong with the evidence in order to dismiss it?

It's not about a trans-person attacking others, I have never made that claim and I don't that is their intent, most likely they would be attacked. 

The whole argument to me is about: people claiming to be a trans-x to get access to places that they would not normally be allowed into and commit sexual offenses against other members of the opposite sex. And that is exactly what I posted evidence of.

Been trying to make this claim point for the longest time... But they never listen.

[BmorePat87]

(11-07-2015, 04:43 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You made the comment about how locker rooms had private quarters to change.   

No, I said I didn't know anyone who changed in the middle of the bathroom and not in a stall.

[BmorePat87]

(11-07-2015, 04:47 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Been trying to make this claim point for the longest time...    But they never listen.

No, we've responded asking for evidence to support your claim. We listened to it and then we asked you the same thing I ask my teenagers to do: provide evidence. My teens can do that.

[BmorePat87]

(11-06-2015, 11:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess you're losing me. You admit it happens then suggest I should "base my points of contention on reality".

Where did you get that I said people might dress inappropriately or mentioned attacks? But it is I that must "base my points of contention on reality".

Some men in the US wear kilts. I will concede that point. 

Obviously the rational line of thought is that we are going to see a lot of this and have to explain it to our sons and daughters





Do not act like my concerns are not valid and realistic...


Also, I am assuming your issue with Roxanne was her wearing lingerie. I'm not sure why else you posted it. My response then tried to explain the dishonesty in suggesting that what she wears in glamour shots at her home is what we would see her out in public like, especially since it was a response to photos I posted of someone actually in public. You then attempted to use the logic "so, you're telling me that no one wears lingerie like clothes in public ever?". I cannot say they don't, but that's like saying that we must always be worried of naked people since people have gone out nude before. 

[*PhilHos*]

(11-06-2015, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not as simple as you are putting it here. I've already explained about the living life as the gender they identify as. When you have people that constantly call them pretenders or see it as nothing important because they don't understand that this is who they are, how can they be taken seriously when being forced to use the restroom that does not match their gender? And not just a couple of times, but every single time they have to use a public restroom.

How does it help their mental state if they go into the restroom they WANT to use and are eyeballed, stared at, called out, or even accosted for using the "wrong" restroom?

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/08/texas-school-reportedly-fired-two-employees-who-raised-concerns-about-a-transgender-6-year-old/

go figure a child who doesn't know what they want ....    

Video report: http://up.anv.bz/latest/anvload.html?key=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

Quote:Two Texas school employees have reportedly been fired after they raised concerns about a six-year-old student whose parents informed them was transgender -- even though the student allegedly wasn't quite so convinced.

According to WWI-TV, employees at the Children's Lighthouse Center in Katy, Texas were informed that a female student now identified as a boy and were instructed to call the student by a new masculine name. The parents had also cut the child's hair short.

"It caused confusion," Madeline Kirksey, a manager at the school before her termination, told WWI.

Kirksey, a Christian author, said confusion abounded in the school, especially as the student seemingly could not decided whether to identify as a boy or a girl.

"One day she wanted to be a girl, and then the next day she wanted to be a boy, and then the other kids get confused and start calling her a boy, and she starts screaming, 'I'm not a boy,'" Kirksey said.

Kirksey said she suggested that the school inform the parents of the students' classmates, but school officials allegedly told her and other employees to refer to a handout if any child came to the teachers with questions. According to Fox News, one of the sections on the "mini-guide for teachers" said, "Like the first black student in a white school 30 years ago, the transgender student today faces a population that finds them strange and frightening." Other sections included suggestions such as "Educate yourself and your students" and "Help defend their dignity."

"I don't think that we should be talking to other people's children that are under the age of 18 about transgender," Kirksey said.

Kirksey said she still has a glow-in-the-dark bracelet that the student gave to her so she wouldn't be afraid in the dark as she had a special bond with the student.

[Rotobeast]

(11-09-2015, 12:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/08/texas-school-reportedly-fired-two-employees-who-raised-concerns-about-a-transgender-6-year-old/

go figure a child who doesn't know what they want ....    

Video report: http://up.anv.bz/latest/anvload.html?key=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

You know you're going to be lambasted, just for the first link, right ?


Also...
These situations have gotten to the level of where religion was in school.
The teachers are going to have to just keep their noses out of it.
The best they can do is voice their concerns to social services.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-09-2015, 01:12 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: You know you're going to be lambasted, just for the first link, right ?


Also...
These situations have gotten to the level of where religion was in school.
The teachers are going to have to just keep their noses out of it.
The best they can do is voice their concerns to social services.

If they are more concerned about a link instead of the story then that just means they have nothing to add.  It references a local news story with a link.  


Unfortunately teachers are hurt because they have to pretend when a kid comes in with changes on a whim.  

No idea why these parents would want to make their kid the center of drama when the kid says she is a girl not a boy.  

And costing a teacher her job over this is ridiculous.

[StLucieBengal]

Also not sure where religion came into this.... The article says she is a christian writer but the video news story never mentions religion once.

Sounds like she spoke up about wanting to notify the other parents. Let them know so they could be prepared for any questions their kids might have. Sounds like exactly what a school should be doing when something drastic happens.