Transgender vets now have a VA clinic

[Rotobeast]

(11-11-2015, 02:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I used to submit to this concept, but when dealing with people that are unhappy in general, it really doesn't matter. Today they will be happy, tomorrow it will be something else.
Why don't they do what they say, say what they mean.

One thing leads to another....

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 03:11 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Actually it hasn't been removed from the DSM.

That being said, one can accept the science that suggests it is a disorder without being a jerk about it.

I don't go up to schizophrenics and tell them they're dumb for thinking they see things that aren't there. And if a doctor determines that the best course of action for someone with GID is reassignment surgery, who am I to say otherwise?

It's like if someone argued someone isn't depressed by saying "I can't just call myself a Minotaur".

Because GD says that someone experiences distress because the gender they identify with is different from the gender associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. It doesn't mean they're making it up and it's a problem whose solution is teaching them to not be trans. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-11-2015, 06:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's like if someone argued someone isn't depressed by saying "I can't just call myself a Minotaur".

Because GD says that someone experiences distress because the gender they identify with is different from the gender associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. It doesn't mean they're making it up and it's a problem whose solution is teaching them to not be trans. 

I get that, I'm not attacking them like that.
As far as I know, people that have GID feel that they should be the opposite gender. To me, that's a feeling and feelings are transmutable. Now I'm no expert in this field (I haven't spent 150 credit hours sitting on my butt in a class room), but it seems to me that therapy could really help them connect to their physical gender. Problem is they need to be open to the therapy, most will probably resist it or won't seek out the proper help because of the stigma attached to getting help.

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 06:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I get that, I'm not attacking them like that.
As far as I know, people that have GID feel that they should be the opposite gender. To me, that's a feeling and feelings are transmutable. Now I'm no expert in this field (I haven't spent 150 credit hours sitting on my butt in a class room), but it seems to me that therapy could really help them connect to their physical gender. Problem is they need to be open to the therapy, most will probably resist it or won't seek out the proper help because of the stigma attached to getting help.

As long as you're distinguishing between being trans and gender dysphoria, I don't see how anyone can see it as an attack. 

The trans people I know have sought out help in their transitions. I don't think a stigma is keeping them from seeking therapy that tries to suggest they do not transition. I think it's the fact that they realize they do not identify with that gender/sex, so they do not try to just cope. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-11-2015, 07:49 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You asked why they would want to use that bathroom, not whether or not allowing this would make more people comfortable. Obviously some people will not be comfortable with it. Some people have been uncomfortable with minority groups getting civil rights for a very long time.

I think the racist slant has ran its course. I do not know one person in 2015 that thinks minorities do not deserve civil rights. But the libs have hitched their wagon to it and cannot let it go.

Get your mind out of 1960. 

[Vas Deferens]

(11-11-2015, 08:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the racist slant has ran its course. I do not know one person in 2015 that thinks minorities do not deserve civil rights. But the libs have hitched their wagon to it and cannot let it go.

Get your mind out of 1960. 

Oh, I assumed you guys had met in person for some reason.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-11-2015, 06:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I get that, I'm not attacking them like that.
As far as I know, people that have GID feel that they should be the opposite gender. To me, that's a feeling and feelings are transmutable. Now I'm no expert in this field (I haven't spent 150 credit hours sitting on my butt in a class room), but it seems to me that therapy could really help them connect to their physical gender. Problem is they need to be open to the therapy, most will probably resist it or won't seek out the proper help because of the stigma attached to getting help.

Exactly. The problem is no one wants to admit these people have serious issues and need our help. They don't need us to entertain their sickness and play along.

If these people went through counseling it would make a huge difference.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-11-2015, 06:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Now I'm no expert in this field (I haven't spent 150 credit hours sitting on my butt in a class room)

Obviously. Why would you waste time and effort educating yourself when you can just plagiarize like I have caught you doing repeatedly. 

[StLucieBengal]

(11-11-2015, 07:56 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As long as you're distinguishing between being trans and gender dysphoria, I don't see how anyone can see it as an attack. 

The trans people I know have sought out help in their transitions. I don't think a stigma is keeping them from seeking therapy that tries to suggest they do not transition. I think it's the fact that they realize they do not identify with that gender/sex, so they do not try to just cope. 

What about help for them to accept what Mother Nature has made them? Maybe they are wrong the gender they are supposed to be is the one they were born. Possibly they are just gay or a feminine dude or a butch tomboy.

I don't have an issue whichever way they go. But getting them help that allows them to figure out if this is the life they want to live is reasonable. Then after they sort that out then we can get them help to transition to the opposite sex . Or maybe back to their original born with sex.

Going through this would be a commitment and therefore not a whim.

Still don't think they should use the other restroom or locker rooms unless they get the surgery but a unisex deal should be made available for those who go through counseling and not get the chop.

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 08:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the racist slant has ran its course. I do not know one person in 2015 that thinks minorities do not deserve civil rights. But the libs have hitched their wagon to it and cannot let it go.

Get your mind out of 1960. 

Didn't the Supreme Court just invalidate gay marriage bans in a dozen states this year? Please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting people don't still fight to deny civil rights to minorities when we've debated one of the biggest fights in the last 20 years here.

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 09:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What about help for them to accept what Mother Nature has made them?   Maybe they are wrong the gender they are supposed to be is the one they were born.   Possibly they are just gay or a feminine dude or a butch tomboy.  

I don't have an issue whichever way they go.   But getting them help that allows them to figure out if this is the life they want to live is reasonable.   Then after they sort that out then we can get them help to transition to the opposite sex .  Or maybe back to their original born with sex.    

Going through this would be a commitment and therefore not a whim.  

Still don't think they should use the other restroom or locker rooms unless they get the surgery but a unisex deal should be made available for those who go through counseling and not get the chop.

If you're going to say really stupid stuff like "they're sick", at least understand the difference between sex and gender. I have to question your credibility when you confuse the two. 

[StLucieBengal]

(11-11-2015, 09:35 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Didn't the Supreme Court just invalidate gay marriage bans in a dozen states this year? Please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting people still fight to deny civil rights to minorities when we've debated one of the biggest fights in the last 20 years here.

You really take a way from the legitimate civil rights disputes of the past by throwing in the recent so called "civil rights" causes. You hurt the gay movement and black civil rights movement by lumping this stuff in with these legitimate battles.

Back then they fought to be able to go to the same schools as whites. Now the so called civil rights fight is about whether they can order a cake for their wedding ceremony . That's not the same. I'm sure blacks of the 50's would love to have had those problems.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-11-2015, 09:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Obviously. Why would you waste time and effort educating yourself when you can just plagiarize like I have caught you doing repeatedly. 

Am I not allowed to form my own opinion based on what I've read and been taught? And yes, I have spent time in A&P, Biology and Psychology classes sitting on my butt, but I don't feel the need to broadcast it to try and belittle someone else.

I notice that you still haven't posted a link as I requested from you before you started off on a rant. Since you haven't posted a link, then it's fair game to say that you must be plagiarizing as well.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-11-2015, 09:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you're going to say really stupid stuff like "they're sick", at least understand the difference between sex and gender. I have to question your credibility when you confuse the two. 

Where did I say they were sick in that post? I just said that we should get them counseling to sort out if that's what they wanna do. You mentioned we should her them counseling to assist to transition but why not counsel to make sure this is really what they want? Changing your gender/sex is quite drastic and shouldn't be taken lightly and without being checked out to make sure that their isn't any mental problems.

Mental problems are a massive Issue in today's society and often covered up. This isn't just the transmission crew it's everyone from all walks of life. I don't think we do enough on this front as a society.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-11-2015, 09:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Am I not allowed to form my own opinion based on what I've read and been taught? And yes, I have spent time in A&P, Biology and Psychology classes sitting on my butt, but I don't feel the need to broadcast it to try and belittle someone else.

I notice that you still haven't posted a link as I requested from you before you started off on a rant. Since you haven't posted a link, then it's fair game to say that you must be plagiarizing as well.

Even you know there is a difference between an original opinion and plagiarism. Nice try though. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-11-2015, 09:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Am I not allowed to form my own opinion based on what I've read and been taught? And yes, I have spent time in A&P, Biology and Psychology classes sitting on my butt, but I don't feel the need to broadcast it to try and belittle someone else.

I notice that you still haven't posted a link as I requested from you before you started off on a rant. Since you haven't posted a link, then it's fair game to say that you must be plagiarizing as well.

I posted the sources you plagiarized. Feel free to do the same to me if you think I plagiarized. 

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 07:49 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote:  Some people have been uncomfortable with minority groups getting civil rights for a very long time.

(11-11-2015, 08:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I do not know one person in 2015 that thinks minorities do not deserve civil rights. 

(11-11-2015, 09:35 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting people don't  still fight to deny civil rights to minorities when we've debated one of the biggest fights in the last 20 years here.

(11-11-2015, 09:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You really take a way from the legitimate civil rights disputes of the past by throwing in the recent so called "civil rights" causes.   

lol, told ya.

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 09:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exactly.   The problem is no one wants to admit these people have serious issues and need our help.   They don't need us to entertain their sickness and play along.  

If these people went through counseling it would make a huge difference.

(11-11-2015, 09:47 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Where did I say they were sick in that post? 

I was quoting your other post. 

[BmorePat87]

(11-11-2015, 09:47 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You mentioned we should her them counseling to assist to transition but why not counsel to make sure this is really what they want?  

That's part of the counseling. Mike was suggesting that they needed therapy to make them more comfortable with their sex if they identified with another gender. That's quite different and suggests it's just behavioral. It's like saying that gay therapy is legitimate. 

Quote:This isn't just the transmission crew it's everyone from all walks of life.  

Congrats, you've created a coded word for a slur that was banned on here after you used it excessively. You never cease to amaze me. 

[StLucieBengal]

(11-11-2015, 10:01 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was quoting your other post. 

Ah ok fair play

Well we don't know if there isn't any mental issues.   Isn't it worth finding out to see if they need help?  

The way we treat mental issues now really bothers me.   And this isn't just about transexuals .... This is across the board, and we really need a broad plan to help the mentally ill, some are a lot worse off than others .   Even the ones with slight issues need our help.    I don't like a lot of gov involvement but this is something they could help.  

I know this conversation is on the transexual topic but when I bring this up I think it's warranted across the board.   Not just on this group.