Trump Administration Levies Russian Sanctions

[Belsnickel]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-russia-sanctions-are-trumps-strongest-action-against-moscow--but-far-short-of-what-congress-wanted/2018/03/15/2a2f8352-2869-11e8-bc72-077aa4dab9ef_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumprussia-815pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Quote:The Trump administration on Thursday took its strongest action to date to punish Moscow for interfering in the 2016 election, imposing fresh financial sanctions on Russian government hackers and spy agencies.

The administration also formally backed Britain’s claims that Moscow is almost certainly to blame for a chemical toxin attack against a former Russian spy living in England who was found comatose along with his daughter earlier this month.

The sanctions were the first such actions taken under legislation passed nearly unanimously last year by Congress and follow months of criticism that the White House has been slow to counter Russian aggression. But the steps taken Thursday fell well short of the full penalties Congress authorized and focused on a narrow list of targets rather than the broader range of individuals and entities believed to have played a role in Russia’s efforts to interfere in the election.

In both cases, pressure from Congress and allies helped nudge the White House toward a stronger response. Republicans have joined Democrats in urging the administration to penalize Russia more strongly, while suggesting that President Trump set aside concerns about examining the election interference that he initially dismissed as a “hoax.”

More at the link.

While I am happy some sanctions are being levied, this is a bit of a too little, too late situation. I know that there will be those that will say that nothing Trump could've done would have satisfied me, but had he implemented the sanctions Congress passed with massive bipartisan support I would have applauded him and given two thumbs up. This gets half a thumb up, from me.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The Left will spin this as Trump being pressured into sanctions and that he is only a Russian puppet while the Right will spin it as Trump waiting for all information instead of being like Obama and jumping in with both feet only to be found he wrongly jumped in.

[ballsofsteel]

I'll spin it as David Dennison trying to deflect from his bad behavior.

[StLucieBengal]

I just don’t see the point of more sanctions. They don’t work and we already had them sanctioned out to the max anyway.

[BmorePat87]

(03-16-2018, 09:11 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I just don’t see the point of more sanctions.   They don’t work and we already had them sanctioned out to the max anyway.

We should probably not respond at all to direct assaults on our democratic process. 

[*PhilHos*]

(03-16-2018, 10:15 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The Left will spin this as Trump being pressured into sanctions and that he is only a Russian puppet while the Right will spin it as Trump waiting for all information instead of being like Obama and jumping in with both feet only to be found he wrongly jumped in.

Pretty much this.

[hollodero]

(03-16-2018, 10:15 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The Left will spin this as Trump being pressured into sanctions and that he is only a Russian puppet while the Right will spin it as Trump waiting for all information instead of being like Obama and jumping in with both feet only to be found he wrongly jumped in.

That's maybe true, though I feel like adding that the left spin probably has more basis in fact. Trump sure looked unwilling and pressured to do something that is really not all that much, and that he's a puppet is a point that at least can be argued quite well.
The right spin not only alleges Trump waiting until he got all information, which is not what he's generally famous for. In this wording, it also claims Obama jumping into sanctions, which is a bit of a tough stance, given that he reacted to seizing parts of a souvereign nation plus election meddling.

[*bfine32*]

I really didn't see the Russian Puppet factor when he bombed the airstrips in Syria. WTS, if it is discovered than he is under any covert influence from a foreign Nation he should be removed from office and tried for treason.

[hollodero]

(03-20-2018, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I really didn't see the Russian Puppet factor when he bombed the airstrips in Syria. WTS, if it is discovered than he is under any covert influence from a foreign Nation he should be removed from office and tried for treason.

OK, admittedly the airstrip bombing was against Russia's interests, although I wouldn't know how much of an affront it really was in the end. It was a symbolic gesture against Assad. 

As for the puppet, sure that's not exactly an airtight case. It's just the sum of really inexplicable things. Lawrow and Kislyak in the WH with only Russian journalists present. All the Putin calls and meetings, without any translators or a guy taking protocol, that were kept a secret until Russia spit it out. The sanctioned Russian diplomats who somehow still traveled to the US. The Trump sons both mentioning how much money from Russia they are all seeing, and then the lieing about Trump's business interests there. Trump's refusal to call Russia out for election meddling, his reluctance to even accept the deed. His open praise for Putin, his never saying a bad word about him, even defending his killings towards O'Reilly. His cryptic announcement of Clinton revelations shortly before the first Emails appeared on Wikileaks. The fact Deutsche Bank lent him money when no one else would, from their private branch that is under Russian money laundering scrutiny. Trump's reluctance to impose sanctions. The Stone-Assange-Guccifer connection. The Manafort and Flynn and Page and Papadopoulos connections to Russia, Manafort even offering private briefings to some oligarch while working for Trump for free even he was up to his neck in debt. The secret Kushner-Russian bank  meetings and the also secret Seychelles trip of Eric Prince where he met some sanctioned Russians to establish a "back channel" and whatnot. This strange server connection from Trump Tower to a Russian bank. Plus of course everything Steele had to say. Also his constant slamming of the investigators which makes him look quite suspicious.

It's all a bit much for me to not see the puppet aspect as a point that can be reasonably argued. But sure, he bombed a Syrian airstrip.

[Dill]

(03-20-2018, 10:57 AM)hollodero Wrote: Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The Left will spin this as Trump being pressured into sanctions and that he is only a Russian puppet while the Right will spin it as Trump waiting for all information instead of being like Obama and jumping in with both feet only to be found he wrongly jumped in.

That's maybe true, though I feel like adding that the left spin probably has more basis in fact. Trump sure looked unwilling and pressured to do something that is really not all that much, and that he's a puppet is a point that at least can be argued quite well.

The right spin not only alleges Trump waiting until he got all information, which is not what he's generally famous for. In this wording, it also claims Obama jumping into sanctions, which is a bit of a tough stance, given that he reacted to seizing parts of a souvereign nation plus election meddling.

This.

So if we look at the record we have so far, looks the like "the left" is right and and the right is wrong.

"Waiting until he got all the information" is generally what Obama is famous for.  Off hand I cannot think of where Obama jumped in with both feet only to find he got it wrong.  The right always urged him to jump and he wisely refused.

[Dill]

(03-20-2018, 03:49 PM)hollodero Wrote: OK, admittedly the airstrip bombing was against Russia's interests, although I wouldn't know how much of an affront it really was in the end. It was a symbolic gesture against Assad. 

As for the puppet, sure that's not exactly an airtight case. It's just the sum of really inexplicable things. Lawrow and Kislyak in the WH with only Russian journalists present. All the Putin calls and meetings, without any translators or a guy taking protocol, that were kept a secret until Russia spit it out. The sanctioned Russian diplomats who somehow still traveled to the US. The Trump sons both mentioning how much money from Russia they are all seeing, and then the lieing about Trump's business interests there. Trump's refusal to call Russia out for election meddling, his reluctance to even accept the deed. His open praise for Putin, his never saying a bad word about him, even defending his killings towards O'Reilly. His cryptic announcement of Clinton revelations shortly before the first Emails appeared on Wikileaks. The fact Deutsche Bank lent him money when no one else would, from their private branch that is under Russian money laundering scrutiny. Trump's reluctance to impose sanctions. The Stone-Assange-Guccifer connection. The Manafort and Flynn and Page and Papadopoulos connections to Russia, Manafort even offering private briefings to some oligarch while working for Trump for free even he was up to his neck in debt. The secret Kushner-Russian bank  meetings and the also secret Seychelles trip of Eric Prince where he met some sanctioned Russians to establish a "back channel" and whatnot. This strange server connection from Trump Tower to a Russian bank. Plus of course everything Steele had to say. Also his constant slamming of the investigators which makes him look quite suspicious.

It's all a bit much for me to not see the puppet aspect as a point that can be reasonably argued. But sure, he bombed a Syrian airstrip.

LOL and don't you forget it.

If anyone ever makes the case Trump is a puppet of Assad, then that stands refuted.  Just in case.

[Dill]

(03-20-2018, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I really didn't see the Russian Puppet factor when he bombed the airstrips in Syria. WTS, if it is discovered than he is under any covert influence from a foreign Nation he should be removed from office and tried for treason.

We need to get a Democrat Congress before that can realistically happen.

In my view, Trump's continued refusal to act to protect the country from cyber attacks, leaving underlings to manage as best they can, is already treason, or at the least gross dereliction of duty. 

You saw what May did after the nerve agent attacks on their soil, and you saw what Obama did after the invasion of the Crimea and the revelation of election hacking in the U.S.

Trump will let Haley speak a few condemnatory words in the UN. And Congressional leaders will speak out on their own. Putin understands that is necessary and is not Trump.

When will we understand what Putin does?

[StLucieBengal]

(03-20-2018, 08:21 PM)Dill Wrote: We need to get a Democrat Congress before that can realistically happen.

In my view, Trump's continued refusal to act to protect the country from cyber attacks, leaving underlings to manage as best they can, is already treason, or at the least gross dereliction of duty. 

You saw what May did after the nerve agent attacks on their soil, and you saw what Obama did after the invasion of the Crimea and the revelation of election hacking in the U.S.

Trump will let Haley speak a few condemnatory words in the UN. And Congressional leaders will speak out on their own. Putin understands that is necessary and is not Trump.

When will we understand what Putin does?

Trump beefed up cyber security almost the same day he took over

At least pretend to be a little honest on this matter. Besides the Democrats aw the last people we should be following on cyber security

[Dill]

(03-20-2018, 09:37 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trump beefed up cyber security almost the same day he took over
At least pretend to be a little honest on this matter.   Besides the Democrats aw the last people we should be following on cyber security

Geezus--did you not follow the senate hearings on cyber security?

How long did it take the defender-in-chief to admit that Russia attacked the US?

A Year After Trump, Davos Elite Fear Cyberattacks and War
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-17/davos-elite-fear-cyberattacks-and-war-as-trump-stokes-tension
The threat of large-scale cyberattacks and a “deteriorating geopolitical landscape” since the election of U.S. President Donald Trump have jumped to the top of the global elite’s list of concerns, the World Economic Forum said ahead of its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

Trump Cybersecurity Advisors Resign, Citing His 'Insufficient Attention' to Threats
http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/trump-cybersecurity-advisors-resign/
A quarter of the members of the National Infrastructure Advisory Council, whose purview includes national cybersecurity, have resigned. In a group resignation letter, they cited both specific shortfalls in the administration’s approach to cybersecurity, and broader concerns that Trump and his administration have undermined the “moral infrastructure” of the U.S.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4506750/Cyber-attack-partly-Trump-s-administration-s-fault.html

Remember this insanity?

Trump appears to back away from cybersecurity effort with Putin
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/09/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-cybersecurity/index.html

[hollodero]

(03-20-2018, 08:16 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL and don't you forget it.

If anyone ever makes the case Trump is a puppet of Assad, then that stands refuted.  Just in case.

Why did you only bolden parts of my post? The other things are just as true :) !

So nice that Trump congratulated Putin. For winning a sham election, after all serious contenders were excluded or imprisoned or fled the country or got killed. As were journalists, bloggers and protesters critical of him. Congratulations to that extortive mafia murderer who successfully overcame democracy to install an oligarchy with him on top.

Congratulating Putin. That one really pisses me off. This man should be a pariah on the world stage and nothing else.

[Dill]

(03-21-2018, 01:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: Why did you only bolden parts of my post? The other things are just as true :) !

So nice that Trump congratulated Putin. For winning a sham election, after all serious contenders were excluded or imprisoned or fled the country or got killed. As were journalists, bloggers and protesters critical of him. Congratulations to that extortive mafia murderer who successfully overcame democracy to install an oligarchy with him on top.

Congratulating Putin. That one really pisses me off. This man should be a pariah on the world stage and nothing else.

Yes they are. I was just picking the most serious.  But Jeezus you have Trump nailed down. This is the third post from you that I can use as a "refresher" because it is so comprehensive.

Regarding Trump's Putin congratulations, after being advised not to, the big concern for me is that his base still does not see a problem. I wonder if they will spin this as Trump "breaking the mold" or just more "making liberals heads explode."  If I mention how this disses our longtime ally Great Britain and confuses our NATO allies, I'll be told "we don't care what foreigners think." Trump is making AMERICA great. Not the Great Britain.

[hollodero]

(03-21-2018, 02:20 AM)Dill Wrote: Yes they are. I was just picking the most serious.  But Jeezus you have Trump nailed down. This is the third post from you that I can use as a "refresher" because it is so comprehensive.

And yet it's just a list. Btw. I wasn't fishing.

And the list is not even complete, not even mentioning this Felix Sater guy or The Veselnitzkaya meeting or all this stupid "I winked at him across the room at the G20 and then we talked at length about Russian adoption in private - and wow hey now that I mention it, that was exactly what my boy talked with these Russians, too! That's so interesting!" thing. I mean, some things actually make you laugh.


--- I just read, Trump obviously got handed a briefing - from his own advisers that is, not hysterical lefties - that said, in big letters, DO NOT CONGRATULATE!
Also, condemn the attacks in the UK while you're at it.

So Trump of course congratulates Putin and doesn't condemn anything, waits until the Kreml mentiones the call, then is all happy about it, plus yey we'll meet soon!

This is one of these times where it looks like Putin completely neutered the sitting US president - and making him show it again and again. Hacking into your power grid? Nerve agent attacks on an allies' soil? Ah, we're still comrades, isn't that right Donny? Now dance little Kozatchok for me.

So... this is also one of the moments where I find it such an obvious possibility that Putin does have the lever over Trump. Not a tape of peeing prostitutes, that stuff wouldn't matter much anymore by now, but the lever to bring him down completely, him, his brand, his whole organization.

Please someone give me a better explanation.

[treee]

(03-20-2018, 03:49 PM)hollodero Wrote: OK, admittedly the airstrip bombing was against Russia's interests, although I wouldn't know how much of an affront it really was in the end. It was a symbolic gesture against Assad. 


It's all a bit much for me to not see the puppet aspect as a point that can be reasonably argued. But sure, he bombed a Syrian airstrip.

Didn't they conveniently stow all the vehicles away to safety shortly before the bombing? Maybe they have spidey sense.

[Belsnickel]

(03-21-2018, 05:33 AM)treee Wrote: Didn't they conveniently stow all the vehicles away to safety shortly before the bombing? Maybe they have spidey sense.

Didn't we warn Russia that it was happening?

[StLucieBengal]

(03-20-2018, 11:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Geezus--did you not follow the senate hearings on cyber security?

How long did it take the defender-in-chief to admit that Russia attacked the US?

A Year After Trump, Davos Elite Fear Cyberattacks and War
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-17/davos-elite-fear-cyberattacks-and-war-as-trump-stokes-tension
The threat of large-scale cyberattacks and a “deteriorating geopolitical landscape” since the election of U.S. President Donald Trump have jumped to the top of the global elite’s list of concerns, the World Economic Forum said ahead of its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

Trump Cybersecurity Advisors Resign, Citing His 'Insufficient Attention' to Threats
http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/trump-cybersecurity-advisors-resign/
A quarter of the members of the National Infrastructure Advisory Council, whose purview includes national cybersecurity, have resigned. In a group resignation letter, they cited both specific shortfalls in the administration’s approach to cybersecurity, and broader concerns that Trump and his administration have undermined the “moral infrastructure” of the U.S.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4506750/Cyber-attack-partly-Trump-s-administration-s-fault.html

Remember this insanity?

Trump appears to back away from cybersecurity effort with Putin
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/09/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-cybersecurity/index.html

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/trump-signs-bill-to-modernize-government-it-and-cybersecurity/


A group of grand standers resigning to virtue signal is irrelevant. I agree we have issues but for you to clamp down on trump for this like a dog on a chew toy is just way over the top.