Trump Announces Abortion now a state issue. He will not attempt a National ban

[Luvnit2]

Trump upset some on the far right today.

He announced on Truth Social he will leave abortion up to the states and how the Supreme Court Ruled. I am prolife and realized a long time ago all life should be protected, but also a realist understanding just like many other things like taxes, each state should set their own laws on abortion. Just as a ban is wrong Nationally, it is also wrong to not have term limits others than health of mother and baby. The polls agree, there should be term limits, but again each state decides.

The people of each state based on their values will determine the abortion rights. Those on the far left like California have different views than those in Alabama or bible belt states. The great thing about our country is every woman has the right to choose, even if a state with term limits. She can go to another state without term limits.

[NATI BENGALS]

Rino

[Dill]

(04-09-2024, 01:11 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Trump upset some on the far right today.

Yeah, Trump is basically a "centrist" who is ready to compromise. The far Right  and far Left will have to deal with it.

(04-09-2024, 01:11 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The people of each state based on their values will determine the abortion rights. Those on the far left like California have different views than those in Alabama or bible belt states. The great thing about our country is every woman has the right to choose, even if a state with term limits. She can go to another state without term limits.

A rousing defense of women's rights there. Where's this defense of states rights trending in the Bible belt states? 

More "great things" about our country that you may have left out.

In Texas, Local Laws to Prevent Travel for Abortions Gain Momentum

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/us/texas-abortion-travel-bans.html

In recent months, abortion opponents in Texas have succeeded in passing a growing number of local ordinances to prevent people from helping women travel to have abortions in nearby states that still allow the procedure.

[i]]On Monday, Lubbock County, a conservative hub of more than 300,000 residents near the border with New Mexico, became the largest county yet to enact . The county commissioners court, during a public meeting that drew occasionally impassioned testimony, voted to make it illegal for anyone to transport a pregnant woman through the county, or pay for her travel, for the purpose of seeking an abortion.

The county, which includes the city of Lubbock and Texas Tech University, joined three other far smaller counties — one along the New Mexico border and two others in the middle of the state — in passing ordinances that were drafted in part by the architect of Texas’s six-week abortion ban, adopted in 2021 even before the U.S. Supreme Court overturned of Roe v. Wade last year.

The city of Amarillo, in the Texas Panhandle, on Tuesday held an hourslong public hearing to consider a similar ordinance, which would apply to a network of roads and highways that pass through the city of 200,000 and lead toward New Mexico and Colorado, states where many Texas women have traveled for procedures.[/i]

[Belsnickel]

Meanwhile, anti-choice folks are mad at him for this and pro-choice folks know he is full of it. If he was in office and Congress sent him a national ban, he'd sign it.

[*pally*]

He’s lying. He would sign any bill with a ban that came across his desk. We know it and you know it.

He is still bragging about killing Roe vs Wade. And of course, still spewing the absolute lie that abortions are taking place up until 40 weeks and parents are even “executing” newborns

[*Nately120*]

(04-09-2024, 07:28 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Meanwhile, anti-choice folks are mad at him for this and pro-choice folks know he is full of it. If he was in office and Congress sent him a national ban, he'd sign it.

That's pretty much my expectation of what he and the GOP are planning, they're watching what even red states vote for when they're given the chance and know a national ban is the way to get what they want while simultaneously making the people that don't vote for them as miserable as possible.

The premise that Trump supports sending abortion to the states because that's what "most people want" rings a bit hollow to me, as well since our system isn't designed to automatically rule in the favor of "most people."  In 2016 Trump came up 3 million votes short of Hillary but he won because our system isn't designed to just hand the presidency to the person who gets the most votes.  Because of this Trump gets to appoint 3 supreme court justices who overturn Roe v Wade, even though most people didn't want that but again...our system isn't automatically about what most people want.

Trump appoints justices who say they wouldn't overturn Roe v Wade and then they do it.  Trump says he will leave it up to the states, and then "most people" are going to vote for Biden in 2024 and Trump may very well win the EC and the election again so he can just sign a national abortion ban and "most people" can kick rocks.


most people didn't want Trump to be president in 2016
most people didn't want Trump to appoint 3 supreme court justices
most people didn't want Roe V Wade overturned
most people didn't vote for Trump in 2020
most people don't want a national abortion ban
most people won't vote for Trump in 2024
most people won't want Trump to sign a national abortion ban


At what point are we going to stop pretending that our political system caters to what most people want?  This is a decision that will be made by congress and the president, two aspects of our government that have been specifically designed to not be beholden to the votes or the will to a nation-wide majority.


tl;dr - Trump will sign a national abortion ban and the same people who talk about most people wanting it to be a state by state thing will go right back to defending a national ban by saying that a bunch of voters in NY and CA don't count and most people not wanting it doesn't matter.

[XenoMorph]

(04-09-2024, 01:11 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Trump upset some on the far right today.

He announced on Truth Social he will leave abortion up to the states and how the Supreme Court Ruled. I am prolife and realized a long time ago all life should be protected, but also a realist understanding just like many other things like taxes, each state should set their own laws on abortion. Just as a ban is wrong Nationally, it is also wrong to not have term limits others than health of mother and baby. The polls agree, there should be term limits, but again each state decides.

The people of each state based on their values will determine the abortion rights. Those on the far left like California have different views than those in Alabama or bible belt states. The great thing about our country is every woman has the right to choose, even if a state with term limits. She can go to another state without term limits.

Letting States govern themselves with less Federal oversight is a win. imo.


Not really against Abortion as a whole. as there are medical reasons one can/should be done.  and other Extreme circumstances.  So never should be fully banned..   But also should not in any way be funded by the government.

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 08:14 AM)pally Wrote: He’s lying.  He would sign any bill with a ban that came across his desk. We know it and you know it.

He is still bragging about killing Roe vs Wade.  And of course, still spewing the absolute lie that abortions are taking place up until 40 weeks and parents are even “executing” newborns

Nothing wrong with his bragging about killing Roe vs. Wade. Shouldn't have been a federal issue to begin with. Republicans have not been silent about their intentions to kill RvW since it began. Also not wrong for him to wash his hands of the issue as he appears to be doing. It's a smart political move. As long as it's a state issue, it's not his issue.

[*Nately120*]

(04-09-2024, 10:22 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Nothing wrong with his bragging about killing Roe vs. Wade. Shouldn't have been a federal issue to begin with. Republicans have not been silent about their intentions to kill RvW since it began. Also not wrong for him to wash his hands of the issue as he appears to be doing. It's a smart political move. As long as it's a state issue, it's not his issue.

I'd be more inclined to agree if we weren't talking about Trump here.  A lot of folks aren't voting for Trump because they want "someone else" making decisions like this.  And while I don't think they'll stop voting for him, I can't imagine the "Jesus is using Trump as a vessel" types are going to be happy with him just saying that abortion is someone else's call.

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 10:30 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd be more inclined to agree if we weren't talking about Trump here.  A lot of folks aren't voting for Trump because they want "someone else" making decisions like this.  And while I don't think they'll stop voting for him, I can't imagine the "Jesus is using Trump as a vessel" types are going to be happy with him just saying that abortion is someone else's call.

They should. Common sense should tell them an all-out ban is not want the country wants on either side, but if Trump takes a harsh stand like they want, it increases the chances for another 4yrs of Biden. 

[GMDino]

(04-09-2024, 10:22 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Nothing wrong with his bragging about killing Roe vs. Wade. Shouldn't have been a federal issue to begin with. Republicans have not been silent about their intentions to kill RvW since it began. Also not wrong for him to wash his hands of the issue as he appears to be doing. It's a smart political move. As long as it's a state issue, it's not his issue.

And that's the heart of why people don't trust Trump on any topic:  He can take all the credit AND wash his hands of it and it's all fine.  

His argument that "everyone" wanted it taken back to the states is wrong.
His wish-washy that people will have to live by whatever is voted on or legislation is bad.

And now he's attacking Graham for wanting a national ban in Congress.

Maybe he understands it's an issue he loses on and that why he will take no responsibility for it?  Well, unless he's campaigning in a red state then he will take all the credit for it.

And there's nothing wrong with that. 

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 10:09 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Letting States govern themselves with less Federal oversight is a win. imo.


Not really against Abortion as a whole. as there are medical reasons one can/should be done.  and other Extreme circumstances.  So never should be fully banned..   But also should not in any way be funded by the government.

I'm in 100% agreement. One thing I like about the GOP is they want less government. I work in a federally regulated career and they have meddled so badly it's become a nightmare. The constant changes in CFR49 are ridiculous. But that's a thread of it's own. If abortion is regulated federally, then there's no other place for resolution unless you leave the country. With state-regulated laws you can go to another state or move. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-09-2024, 10:48 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: They should. Common sense should tell them an all-out ban is not want the country wants on either side, but if Trump takes a harsh stand like they want, it increases the chances for another 4yrs of Biden. 

They want Trump to fake a moderate stance and then get into office and sign a federal ban.

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 10:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: And that's the heart of why people don't trust Trump on any topic:  He can take all the credit AND wash his hands of it and it's all fine.  

You just defined every politician ever. 

This is why I say it's a good political move. He's finally learning how the political game is played. And you know my stance on that. Don't hate the player...

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 10:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: They want Trump to fake a moderate stance and then get into office and sign a federal ban.

Doubt it would happen, but I don't control the future. Last thing you want to do after getting elected is hand the country back to the Dems. A federal ban would do exactly that and would be hard to get it back anytime soon.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-09-2024, 10:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: They want Trump to fake a moderate stance and then get into office and sign a federal ban.

So you know the plan eh? 

No idea why people simply can't find middle ground on anything.

[GMDino]

(04-09-2024, 10:54 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm in 100% agreement. One thing I like about the GOP is they want less government. I work in a federally regulated career and they have meddled so badly it's become a nightmare. The constant changes in CFR49 are ridiculous. But that's a thread of it's own. If abortion is regulated federally, then there's no other place for resolution unless you leave the country. With state-regulated laws you can go to another state or move. 

No, they want less regulations on businesses and more on individuals.

Secondly, some states are still pushing to make it a crime to leave the state for an abortion where it is legal.

[*Nately120*]

(04-09-2024, 11:00 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Doubt it would happen, but I don't control the future. Last thing you want to do after getting elected is hand the country back to the Dems. A federal ban would do exactly that and would be hard to get it back anytime soon.

If Trump wins in 2024 I can't imagine he'd give much of a crap about the difficulty Nikki Haley would face in 2028 before he acts. The people who love Trump the most want a national ban and the people who hate Trump the most don't want a national ban. Given the guy's personality and history, I wouldn't trust his loyalty to state's rights on this one, I'm just saying.

(04-09-2024, 11:03 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So you know the plan eh? 

No idea why people simply can't find middle ground on anything.

I'd argue I'm quite middle ground on this, I just think it's a bit of a stretch for people to take Donald Trump at his word on this, or anything.  Remember, he admits that he sometimes mixes stuff up on purpose when he's speaking.

[GMDino]

(04-09-2024, 10:58 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: You just defined every politician ever. 

This is why I say it's a good political move. He's finally learning how the political game is played. And you know my stance on that. Don't hate the player...

"Ever politician ever"?

But Trump "isn't a politician"!  He's an "outsider"!  He "speaks his mind"! 

Trump says whatever so he'll get praise.  That's it.  That's his whole being.

So he'll take credit and deny having any part of it depending on the day.

[HarleyDog]

(04-09-2024, 11:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, they want less regulations on businesses and more on individuals.

Secondly, some states are still pushing to make it a crime to leave the state for an abortion where it is legal.

The only attempted state ban I've heard of is in Texas and I've seen it here. As for your first sentence, I'm not against fewer regs on business. I've made it clear how I stand there. It's a free country and if you don't like a company's standpoint on something, then you don't have to give them your business. For the latter part, you're never going to convince me the GOP wants more regulations on individuals than the Dems do.