Trump Announces Presidential Bid for 2024

[CKwi88]

(11-17-2022, 01:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe. Trump trumpeted about Kari Lake's win being stolen and there are like 5 people protesting it. 

I know it'll be bigger when Trump says it about himself but I can also see the enthusiasm dying out after years of the same thing.  It's like bills fans watching that 4th super bowl in a row. 

No it's more like Ringo Starrs solo career.  With each album the initially high enthusiasm dwindled.  I'd compare Kari Lake to Ringo the 4th, but there is some charm to a drunk Ringo singing disco.

I only caught bits and pieces of the Mar a Lago announcement, but I think we're already there. Trump is pretty damaged goods, and now doesn't have the Murdoch empire or other big name donors backing him. His competent children want nothing to do with it anymore. It's early, and discounting Trump backfired spectacularly in 2016, but it's tough to envision this going as he hopes.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2022, 03:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I only caught bits and pieces of the Mar a Lago announcement, but I think we're already there. Trump is pretty damaged goods, and now doesn't have the Murdoch empire or other big name donors backing him. His competent children want nothing to do with it anymore. It's early, and discounting Trump backfired spectacularly in 2016, but it's tough to envision this going as he hopes.

That mar a lago thing was attended by rich folks, not the usual hootin and hollerin type of supporters, but yea the "meh" was strong that night. Trump's continued insistence that 2016-2020 was the most successful any country had ever been is a reach.  People don't seem to be as into pretending he's right anymore. 

Most folks supporters and detractors alike knew he was full of shit but now even a lot of his former supporters are admitting it.  He's the one who is being used and discarded after out living his usefulness this time. 

[Dill]

(11-17-2022, 03:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I only caught bits and pieces of the Mar a Lago announcement, but I think we're already there. Trump is pretty damaged goods, and now doesn't have the Murdoch empire or other big name donors backing him. His competent children want nothing to do with it anymore. It's early, and discounting Trump backfired spectacularly in 2016, but it's tough to envision this going as he hopes.

For the moment. 

He didn't have them in 2015, and again on Jan. 7, 2021.

But time and some big time Fox commentators turned it around

--because the base stuck with him. 

That base will decide whether and to what degree Trump remains a player,
not media commentators (except Hannity) and "establishment" GOP. 

I agree that his campaign is not likely to "go as he hopes" and repeat the success of 2016.

But I believe he will have enough support to obstruct and break whatever the GOP "normies" 
are doing to bypass him for 2024. He might even drop out before the end of 2023, claiming persecution
DOJ targeting and the like make it all so unfair. But he'll take the winning margin with him. 

Hannity is the bellweather here. He can keep Trump's 25-30% die hard support with the 
right narrative about the MSM narrative. 

Biden will have to be catastrophically bad over the next two years for the GOP to win the
independents back. 

[samhain]

Trump is guided by compulsion for power more than even self-preservation. Without support from the GOP party elders, he makes himself extremely vulnerable to any number of things that they helped shield him from before. If he's not careful, running could get him thrown in jail.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I wonder if he'll even win the primary.

"I think that's a mistake. He had his chance and his time is over." - My old white straight-R ballot voting Dad when he heard the news. Doesn't speak well of Trump's odds if even the reliable R voters aren't on board.

Trump has never actually won Ohio in an opposed primary. He got crushed by Kasich in 2016 and now he's not the incumbent either. Also think a guy who will be in his 80s for his term would be a hard sell even if he didn't have the stink of loss on him. Another Biden/Trump race would have over 160 years of life between them. Oof.

[NATI BENGALS]

Who?

Is this the same guy who lost to that Joe Biden clown in 2020?

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2022, 06:49 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Who?

Is this the same guy who lost to that Joe Biden clown in 2020?

No.  He beat Biden in a landslide.  


It is interesting watching both Republicans and Packers fans grapple with the realization that egotistical d-bags are pretty intolerable once the winning stops. And both guys can and will cause massive headaches if you try to move on from them. 

[Dill]

(11-17-2022, 10:50 PM)samhain Wrote: Trump is guided by compulsion for power more than even self-preservation.  Without support from the GOP party elders, he makes himself extremely vulnerable to any number of things that they helped shield him from before.  If he's not careful, running could get him thrown in jail.

That's an excellent and crucial point.

He was saved from impeachment and much else by his control over his party.

Without that layer of protection and obfuscation, he'll certainly be more vulnerable.

I'm not ready to count him out yet, though. 

Support of the party elders is really not up to them. Their base will teach them whose party
it really is--Trump or DeSantis. 

And if they finally break for Trump, the craven GOP leadership--which has already bumped anyone
with character and independent thought out--will follow them there. Again. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2022, 12:54 PM)Dill Wrote: That's an excellent and crucial point.

He was saved from impeachment and much else by his control over his party.

Without that layer of protection and obfuscation, he'll certainly be more vulnerable.

I'm not ready to count him out yet, though. 

Support of the party elders is really not up to them. Their base will teach them whose party
it really is--Trump or DeSantis. 

And if they finally break for Trump, the craven GOP leadership--which has already bumped anyone
with character and independent thought out--will follow them there. Again. 

Yep, time will tell if the party is really done with Trump or if this is like the brief aftermath of 1/6 where for a few hours the GOP was "done" with Trump only to crawl back to him.

If DeSantis doesn't run they're going to have to go back to possibly literally kissing Trump's ass.  The GOP did make McCarthy the speaker of the house and isn't he one of the faces of crawling back to Trump?

[hollodero]

(11-18-2022, 12:54 PM)Dill Wrote: That's an excellent and crucial point.

He was saved from impeachment and much else by his control over his party.

Without that layer of protection and obfuscation, he'll certainly be more vulnerable.

On the other hand, this could be exactly the reason why folks fall in line again. His perceived adversaries (I know not really, but that's the perception) in all of these matters are the liberals. And I might believe some folks glorify him less than they did before, I do not believe that these folks' disdain for liberals has in any way diminished. And when it's Trump vs. liberals, no question who FOX et al. will side with. And if this fight gets heated again, as it undoubtedly will, they will quickly go to the former extremes.

As for the primaries, imho it depends on how many people run against him. If it's only deSantis, I can see it getting close. If it's a bunch of folks whose most significant asset is that they are not Trump, then Trump will win the primaries again. It splits his opponents while his followers won't switch allegiance.

[*pally*]

AG Merrick Garland has just announced an appointment of a Special Counsel to continue the investigation into Trump's corruption due to his announced candidacy

[HarleyDog]

(11-18-2022, 01:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: And I might believe some folks glorify him less than they did before, I do not believe that these folks' disdain for liberals has in any way diminished. And when it's Trump vs. liberals, no question who FOX et al. will side with. And if this fight gets heated again, as it undoubtedly will, they will quickly go to the former extremes.

I think the patience with Trump has run out with the majority of GOP. I doubt he gets much support from the party or FOX. Two issues IMO he faces right now is just about everyone he needs support from, he has somehow tore down or turned against at one time or another. Also, his disrespect of DeSantis has much of the right pissed off. Think about it, if your on the right, do you want any part of a guy which most of the candidates he endorsed or supported lost their elections? 

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2022, 05:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think the patience with Trump has run out with the majority of GOP. I doubt he gets much support from the party or FOX. Two issues IMO he faces right now is just about everyone he needs support from, he has somehow tore down or turned against at one time or another. Also, his disrespect of DeSantis has much of the right pissed off. Think about it, if your on the right, do you want any part of a guy which most of the candidates he endorsed or supported lost their elections? 

That just shows them that there ain't no substitute for the real thing.  TRUMP 2024.

[HarleyDog]

(11-18-2022, 05:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That just shows them that there ain't no substitute for the real thing.  TRUMP 2024.

I would much prefer Trump 2024 over what we have now. Yet, not going to happen and his running may set the GOP back several years. 

[hollodero]

(11-18-2022, 05:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think the patience with Trump has run out with the majority of GOP. I doubt he gets much support from the party or FOX. Two issues IMO he faces right now is just about everyone he needs support from, he has somehow tore down or turned against at one time or another. Also, his disrespect of DeSantis has much of the right pissed off. Think about it, if your on the right, do you want any part of a guy which most of the candidates he endorsed or supported lost their elections? 

I don't know. Imho it will depend on him being successful in the primaries. If he is the early frontrunner, I'd guess hardly anyone will openly oppose him. They did not do so in the past; Trump offended or tore down people all the time and yet got their support in the end. He called Cruz' wife ugly and mused about his father being involved in the JFK assassination, he called McCain awful things, and plenty others like McConnell or Ryan or pretty much anyone really; Trump always said or tweeted the most severe insults and it ended up not hurting him one bit. I wouldn't know why deSantis' case would end up any different if Trump gets enough support still.

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2022, 05:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I would much prefer Trump 2024 over what we have now.

This is why Trump is going to keep running.  Enough people seem to think Biden is worse than a guy who may very well have sold nuclear secrets to the Saudis.  Man, I'm not over the moon about Biden, but just imagine what Trump would have spent the past 2 years doing if he were still in the White House.  Lordy.

I could really go for some $2 gas and the USA aligning itself against NATO and with Putin right about now!

[HarleyDog]

(11-18-2022, 05:55 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know. Imho it will depend on him being successful in the primaries. If he is the early frontrunner, I'd guess hardly anyone will openly oppose him. They did not do so in the past; Trump offended or tore down people all the time and yet got their support in the end. He called Cruz' wife ugly and mused about his father being involved in the JFK assassination, he called McCain awful things, and plenty others like McConnell or Ryan or pretty much anyone really; Trump always said or tweeted the most severe insults and it ended up not hurting him one bit. I wouldn't know why deSantis' case would end up any different if Trump gets enough support still.

Maybe, we will see. I don't see him an early frontrunner. 

[hollodero]

(11-18-2022, 05:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Maybe, we will see. I don't see him an early frontrunner. 

Well, recent surveys apparently still see Trump way ahead of deSantis or anyone else. Eg. this one.

If you want to answer that, what about yourself? Would you prefer Trump or deSantis, or rather someone else?

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2022, 06:09 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, recent surveys apparently still see Trump way ahead of deSantis or anyone else. Eg. this one.

If you want to answer that, what about yourself? Would you prefer Trump or deSantis, or rather someone else?

He said it himself, if 2024 is Trump vs Biden he's voting for Trump. And until Biden says he's handing the baton off and DeSantis officially declares he's running, it's Biden vs Trump part 2.

[hollodero]

(11-18-2022, 06:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He said it himself, if 2024 is Trump vs Biden he's voting for Trump.  And until Biden says he's handing the baton off and DeSantis officially declares he's running, it's Biden vs Trump part 2.

Yeah I get that he'd go for Trump over Biden, it's understandably tough for someone with a conservative mindset to vote any other way. I wondered whether he could imagine a better republican candidate.