Trump Confession

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 02:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, it's not like Trump does or has done anything in his life to deserve such criticism.  It's unfair, really.

Trump has done a good many things that deserve criticism; unfortunately, they just get muted by the white noise. 

[jj22]

(08-06-2018, 01:09 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Weren't a couple of phones smashed up too by one of her aides?

Luckily she had friends in high places, cough cough Comey and Lynch.

But back to Trump. Agreed with what you said above. If there is evidence, as in real evidence that he colluded with Russia to get dirt, then go after him. Because by God our politicians should never use a foreigners to get dirt and instead should get dirt the good ole fashioned American way by using Americans to so.

Russia attacked a private American and political party. As an American no matter how you feel about one of us, you don't stand with the Russians. Well you shouldn't, but we see how many Americans will.

And tell me again how Comey helped Hillary by hiding the fact Trump was under FBI investigation but exposing Hillary's throughout the campaign season? This line is (one of) the clearest example of how Trump has got his supporters playing the fool. But carry on with the claim. I'll wait for an explanation.

The attempt to cover for an attack against America by a foreign state should disgust us all. The cover coming from Americans claiming to be pro America makes it even more outrageous.

Unfortunately Trump supporters are proving everyday they don't really care about this Nation.

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2018, 02:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump has done a good many things that deserve criticism; unfortunately, they just get muted by the white noise. 

That's your conclusion.  

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 01:35 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Ok so I will say that I didn’t think it was illegal to receive info from a foreigner. I thought that Hillary was in the clear because it was paid for. I understand she didn’t initiate it, but she still received it so I’m a little confused there.  My understanding of that situation may have been wrong but that’s what I was basing my opinion on.

I am confused also.  What info are you talking about?

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 03:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's your conclusion.  

Sure is, but I do believe Aesop wrote a fable about the dynamic. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2018, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am confused also.  What info are you talking about?

I guess this explains it well enough.  The Fallon guy said he didn't know about it but would have gone to Europe to get the info.  

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/10/25/dnc-clinton-campaign-pay-trump-russia-steele-dossier/

[jj22]

(08-06-2018, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am confused also.  What info are you talking about?

I'm thinking the dossier. But that info was provided to the FBI directly from the source (British spy who has done tons of work on behalf of our Country and Intel agencies) and wasn't obtained from an illegal attack (hacking) on an American citizen.

I think we are talking about two different things here. Let's not lose sight of the fact Russia attacked America illegally.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 03:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I guess this explains it well enough.  The Fallon guy said he didn't know about it but would have gone to Europe to get the info.  

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/10/25/dnc-clinton-campaign-pay-trump-russia-steele-dossier/

Fusion GPS is a US corporation subject to the laws of the United States.  It is not against the law to gather information through legal means under the jurisdiction of US laws.

What Trump did was deal directly with a foreign national who was not subject to the control of any US laws.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 01:38 PM)Millhouse Wrote: It's amusing to watch both sides on this stuff. Hillary basically committed a felony by obstructing a federal investigation, yet she was defended by the left in that she did nothing wrong and it was a right wing witch hunt to get her. Then on the other side there is some circumstantial evidence that Trump or at the least some of Trump's people were in contact with some Russians to get dirt out on Hillary. And many on the right are defending him in a similar way, calling it a witch hunt.

You know what is NOT amusing?

Watching Trump defenders try to compare possible negligent use of a server with an intentional attempt to engage a foreign country seen as one of our biggest enemies to influence a US election.

[Millhouse]

(08-06-2018, 02:20 PM)jj22 Wrote: Russia attacked a private American and political party. As an American no matter how you feel about one of us, you don't stand with the Russians. Well you shouldn't, but we see how many Americans will.

And tell me again how Comey helped Hillary by hiding the fact Trump was under FBI investigation but exposing Hillary's throughout the campaign season? This line is (one of) the clearest example of how Trump has got his supporters playing the fool. But carry on with the claim. I'll wait for an explanation.

The attempt to cover for an attack against America by a foreign state should disgust us all. The cover coming from Americans claiming to be pro America makes it even more outrageous.

Unfortunately Trump supporters are proving everyday they don't really care about this Nation.

Thing is, I never was a Trump supporter, nor formed any of my opinions because of him or his tweets. So if you are implying that for me, then you are way off base.

And why give an explanation to those that have Hillary blinders on and were played by a fool just like their Trump supporter counterparts?

Ok I will try briefly. Hillary had people delete emails and destroy phones during an ongoing investigation. That is called obstruction of justice, and in the federal system is a pretty big crime known as a felony. Comey during the investigation had language changed from 'gross negligence' to 'extremely careless', which is significant from a legal standpoint. That one Agent Strzok made the actual change with Comey greenlighting it.

Now Comey did send a letter to Congress right before the he dropped the charges saying the FBI should FBI should "take appropriate investigative steps." . This is the one the Clinton team claimed lost the election for them. But soon after right before the election he ended up dropping all charges. In hindsight it appeared he sent that letter to cover himself from looking partial. But that partiality ended imo when charges were dropped a few days later.

Much of the info above can be found at a fake news site that Trump despises: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/strzok-fbi-comey-clinton-letter/index.html

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know what is NOT amusing?

Watching Trump defenders try to compare possible negligent use of a server with an intentional attempt to engage a foreign country seen as one of our biggest enemies to influence a US election.

I haven't seen too many compare the actions. I have seen them laugh at the hypocrisy of those who determine a crime has been committed simply because of irrational bias. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2018, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Fusion GPS is a US corporation subject to the laws of the United States.  It is not against the law to gather information through legal means under the jurisdiction of US laws.

What Trump did was deal directly with a foreign national who was not subject to the control of any US laws.

But Michael Steele is a foreign national, and the info came from him.  If all you have to do is have someone else get you the info that seems like a pretty stupid law.

[jj22]

The October surprise wasn't the first time things were leaked about Hillary's FBI investigation. They leaked for nearly a year. But again how did this help Hillary which is what you claimed....

Better yet, why did Comey hide Trumps investigation and not Hillary's?

With "friends" like you claim she had, who needed enemies.

Comey helped Trump and that is fact. Regardless of what Trump has you guys claiming.

[Millhouse]

(08-06-2018, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know what is NOT amusing?

Watching Trump defenders try to compare possible negligent use of a server with an intentional attempt to engage a foreign country seen as one of our biggest enemies to influence a US election.

It wasnt the negligent use of a server, which is a fact, but the attempt to hide it from an investigation, which also is a fact.

But if I had compare the two by placing them on each side of a teeter totter, the election tampering would outweigh obstruction of justice. So it's not like I hold both equal.

Question though, can one get more years in prison for federal obstruction of justice or getting the Ruskies to get dirt on a political opponent? I honestly dont know.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 04:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But Michael Steele is a foreign national, and the info came from him.  If you can have a go between make it legal that seems like a loophole that should be closed.  

No.  There can be very important information that people need to know about from foreign sources.  You can't just say that any info from a foreign source is off limits.

The point is that it has to be obtained through legit channels so that there can be open and clear regulation.  The info can't come from a hidden secret foreign source.  A source like that could have unlimited influence with no control.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 04:12 PM)Millhouse Wrote:  but the attempt to hide it from an investigation, which also is a fact.

It is not a fact at all.  The computer was ordered to be cleaned before the information was subject to an investigation or any subpoena had been served.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2018, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not a fact at all.  The computer was ordered to be cleaned before the information was subject to an investigation or any subpoena had been served.

....or so you've been told. But we do know it was actually done after subpoena.

"bfine, we're going to need you to turn over your computer"

"OK, I've just got to delete somethings I already meant to have deleted."

"OK, fine, just hurry up"

[*michaelsean*]

(08-06-2018, 04:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  There can be very important information that people need to know about from foreign sources.  You can't just say that any info from a foreign source is off limits.

The point is that it has to be obtained through legit channels so that there can be open and clear regulation.  The info can't come from a hidden secret foreign source.  A source like that could have unlimited influence with no control.

I guess that's the confusion because the law you posted doesn't go into what is legit etc.  I mean it does seem stupid that no foreigner can give any info, it just seemed in what you posted it didn't distinguish any differences in how it's obtained, it just says you can't solicit from a foreign national. Was that like a summary and the actual law is much more in depth?

[Millhouse]

(08-06-2018, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not a fact at all.  The computer was ordered to be cleaned before the information was subject to an investigation or any subpoena had been served.

The smashed phones disagree, and 'Brilliant!' as noted above.

[jj22]

How did this thread on Trump's confession turn into Hillary's emails........

Oh who am I fooling. We all knew that was coming.

Trump is using a personal cell phone and his people are using private server. Trump supporters (secret or otherwise) don't care about that, so they really don't care about Hillary using a private server.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/private-email-trump-kushner-bannon.html

https://www.apnews.com/11a48fde81634789b1cc361696693b68

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/23/politics/donald-trump-cell-phone/index.html


So it's well past time to stop acting like you guys care about emails and private servers.