Trump & GOP promised economic growth much better than Obama.That's not what happened

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 05:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ranks 6th after 2 years? Not bad eh?
But you moved the goal posts of what I said.

I'll try it again. From the MOMENT it was officially announced that TRUMP was POTUS, the stock market jumped and kept jumping til recently. Will it pick back up again? None of us know the answer to that, but many will be wrong again just like they were when they said it would crash if Trump became POTUS.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/investing/dow-jones-trump-wins-election/index.html

The Dow soared 257 points and brushed up against lifetime highs on Wednesday, in defiance of those who predicted Trump's election would bring about a plunge in the stock market. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq rose 1.1% apiece.

The impressive market performance represents a dramatic reversal from the knee-jerk panic in global markets overnight as the results were coming in. Dow futures plummeted nearly 900 points at one point as investors expressed fear that no one would emerge victorious and concern about the inherent uncertainties brought on by a Trump White House.


This is DATA from something that really happened, but this run up in Nov-Dec counts on Obama's turn.

Dude, you're pissing up a rope if you think you can say anything positive about Trump in the forum without getting mega kick back.

Hell, you dispute the fact that he Adolph Hitler and you get labeled a Trump Supporter. 

But I'm happy the economy is doing well and ironically enough, that's not always great for my business. 

[hollodero]

(03-04-2019, 05:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, you dispute the fact that he Adolph Hitler and you get labeled a Trump Supporter. 

I strongly dispute that he is Adolf Hitler. You think anyone will call me a Trump supporter now?

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 05:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ranks 6th after 2 years? Not bad eh?
But you moved the goal posts of what I said.

I'll try it again. From the MOMENT it was officially announced that TRUMP was POTUS, the stock market jumped and kept jumping til recently. Will it pick back up again? None of us know the answer to that, but many will be wrong again just like they were when they said it would crash if Trump became POTUS.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/investing/dow-jones-trump-wins-election/index.html

The Dow soared 257 points and brushed up against lifetime highs on Wednesday, in defiance of those who predicted Trump's election would bring about a plunge in the stock market. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq rose 1.1% apiece.

The impressive market performance represents a dramatic reversal from the knee-jerk panic in global markets overnight as the results were coming in. Dow futures plummeted nearly 900 points at one point as investors expressed fear that no one would emerge victorious and concern about the inherent uncertainties brought on by a Trump White House.


This is DATA from something that really happened, but this run up in Nov-Dec counts on Obama's turn.

Yeah I was just responding to the "market shot up" with some stats showing it did for Obama too and didn't for Bush.

The market also lost all of its 2018 gains by November of 2018.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/11/20/dow-selloff-erases-2018-gains/2064956002/

I don't know why you guys are so hard core defending DJT that he's worked miracles when the market has been good (except for losing all its gains in 2018) and I still haven't been shown any policies enacted that would cause his market growth to be the best.

Sorry for the dose of reality.

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 05:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What the DATA in my link says DID happen is that Trump beat Obama's predictions on Economy and Unemployment, but go on with your bad little self calling Trump a liar about not making it to 3.0. His term isn't even over yet, he could still make it or not. Let's just wait and see?

Which of DJT's policies caused those numbers.  I'll wait.

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 06:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: I strongly dispute that he is Adolf Hitler. You think anyone will call me a Trump supporter now?

Nah, you also have to be conservative. 

[hollodero]

(03-04-2019, 06:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, you also have to be conservative. 

Yeah well, that I am not.
To be clear, I for one do not label you a Trump supporter. I label you a Trump tolerator.

As for Mike, I guess he has no problem to be seen as a Trump supporter.

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 06:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Which of DJT's policies caused that numbers.  I'll wait.

**Who knows: Tax cuts deregulation, increase buyer confidence by promising more domestic jobs.

Seldom is there 1 thing that moves an economy, but the bottom line is the economy is good and Mike M is kinda disputing the OP with facts, so you and other are left with moving the goal post and questioning why 7 fiscal quarters should be used.  





** Disclaimer: I realize you asked Mike I was just sharing my thoughts I was not putting words in Mike' mouth

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 06:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: **Who knows: Tax cuts deregulation, increase buyer confidence by promising more domestic jobs.

Seldom is there 1 thing that moves an economy, but the bottom line is the economy is good and Mike M is kinda disputing the OP with facts, so you and other are left with moving the goal post and questioning why 7 fiscal quarters should be used.  





** Disclaimer: I realize you asked Mike I was just sharing my thoughts I was not putting words in Mike' mouth

"Who knows" indeed.

So far the tax cuts have not shown much in the way of new hiring.  But that may change.

Not sure how being allowed to dump mine runoff into streams creates jobs (other than to try and clean up the streams). But that's another maybe.

"confidence" is hard to measure but ok, maybe.

In the end DJT hasn't really instituted a "plan" other than to say everything is great...and we have to make America great again. (which is weird to say when everything is great).

Perhaps it's just a matter of one side likes to credit their guy and not the other?

Or maybe people just want to avoid looking at trends over time.  

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 06:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: "Who knows" indeed.

So far the tax cuts have not shown much in the way of new hiring.  But that may change.

Not sure how being allowed to dump mine runoff into streams creates jobs (other than to try and clean up the streams). But that's another maybe.

"confidence" is hard to measure but ok, maybe.

In the end DJT hasn't really instituted a "plan" other than to say everything is great...and we have to make America great again. (which is weird to say when everything is great).

Perhaps it's just a matter of one side likes to credit their guy and not the other?

Or maybe people just want to avoid looking at trends over time.  

Or maybe, just maybe some do not want to give POTUS any credit.

I know Matt and other sat POTUS has little to do with a Nation'e economy; but I'm not sure I buy that. Of course all my experience is in Micro-Econ

[GMDino]

(03-04-2019, 06:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Or maybe, just maybe some do not want to give POTUS any credit.

I know Matt and other sat POTUS has little to do with a Nation'e economy; but I'm not sure I buy that. Of course all my experience is in Micro-Econ

Saw that for the entire OBama admin too.

It happens.

What Mike M is correct about is that we really won't know how the Trump Economy pans out until it is over.  Which is what the article said.  It just cited trends and experts that said he probably won't reach the numbers he claimed he could.

[*bfine32*]

(03-04-2019, 06:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Saw that for the entire OBama admin too.

It happens.

What Mike M is correct about is that we really won't know how the Trump Economy pans out until it is over.  Which is what the article said.  It just cited trends and experts that said he probably won't reach the numbers he claimed he could.

No doubt. One side does not have a monopoly on blind haters. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-04-2019, 05:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dude, you're pissing up a rope if you think you can say anything positive about Trump in the forum without getting mega kick back.

Hell, you dispute the fact that he Adolph Hitler and you get labeled a Trump Supporter. 

But I'm happy the economy is doing well and ironically enough, that's not always great for my business. 

HAHAHA I have figured that out.

(03-04-2019, 06:12 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah well, that I am not.
To be clear, I for one do not label you a Trump supporter. I label you a Trump tolerator.

As for Mike, I guess he has no problem to be seen as a Trump supporter.

Yep, solid Trump Supporter, nothing wrong with calling me that. However I am far from a racist/bigot/Nazi/alt right supporter etc.

I match myself to the Candidate that stands the most on the same ground as I do when it comes to beliefs etc. of course I have my own order of importance as well. And yes Trump can be an idiot at times, no argument from me there. I would love for him to calm down and attack the legality of the laws and make solid proposals, ones that would hold up in court, simply because we know that as soon as he signs any EO it's gonna be contested with in 24 hours. This is what our politics has degraded to and it's sad cause there is always going to be a court out there that plays politics first rather than letting these guys all do the job they've been called on to do.

[BmorePat87]

(03-04-2019, 08:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: HAHAHA I have figured that out.


Yep, solid Trump Supporter, nothing wrong with calling me that. However I am far from a racist/bigot/Nazi/alt right supporter etc.

I match myself to the Candidate that stands the most on the same ground as I do when it comes to beliefs etc. of course I have my own order of importance as well. And yes Trump can be an idiot at times, no argument from me there. I would love for him to calm down and attack the legality of the laws and make solid proposals, ones that would hold up in court, simply because we know that as soon as he signs any EO it's gonna be contested with in 24 hours. This is what our politics has degraded to and it's sad cause there is always going to be a court out there that plays politics first rather than letting these guys all do the job they've been called on to do.

You're also one hell of a fantasy football player  :andy:

[hollodero]

(03-04-2019, 08:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yep, solid Trump Supporter, nothing wrong with calling me that.

I figured, and why would there.

(03-04-2019, 08:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: However I am far from a racist/bigot/Nazi/alt right supporter etc.

Sure, I believe that. I don't generally associate supporting Trump with these things. Except in cases where it's justified.

(03-04-2019, 08:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I match myself to the Candidate that stands the most on the same ground as I do when it comes to beliefs etc. of course I have my own order of importance as well. And yes Trump can be an idiot at times, no argument from me there.

I admit that aspect gets usually larger in importance when the person doesn't align with core beliefs. Since Trump doesn't quite align with mine, I see his idiotic aspects in even brighter light. There's some bias in that.
I am just bewildered when people simply deny he's an idiot at times.

(03-04-2019, 08:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I would love for him to calm down and attack the legality of the laws and make solid proposals, ones that would hold up in court, simply because we know that as soon as he signs any EO it's gonna be contested with in 24 hours. This is what our politics has degraded to and it's sad cause there is always going to be a court out there that plays politics first rather than letting these guys all do the job they've been called on to do.

Well, this argument goes both ways. Some would say (and I would agree) Congress' job is to protect the power of Congress from executive overreach, and same goes for the judiciary. I wouldn't consider that a political game, and for once even Rand Paul agrees with me on something :). And reassigning money Congress has appropriated for other purposes seems a bit authoritarian.
Now if there's an emergency, like a tornado? OK, then this shortcut to get money freed up fast is logical. But in this case, the emergency is rather Congress disagreeing with the president's priorities, eg. with building a wall, as it is an actual time sensitive emergency. Trump himself said as much. And that is concerning. Wasn't it you that voiced concern he might use these declarations again and again now, for example to censor the press?
Also, imagine what a democratic president will do with these powers once established. Medicare for all can be called an emergency, you could make the case that many thousands of Americans die each year due to no coverage, and these arguments would be quite similar to Trump's.

(03-04-2019, 09:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're also one hell of a fantasy football player  :andy:

Oh yeah, he was the one beating me in the final of this board's league, right? I don't know if I failed to congratulate... if so, congratulations.

[Belsnickel]

(03-04-2019, 05:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: 21 Months before Trump took office is a good time frame to see how everything was trending while under Obama, once it was announced that Trump was POTUS, the stock market and the businesses were confident again in the future and starting growing again, up to that point they were stagnant.

First, stock market is not a measure of the economy. Using stock market numbers is even more pointless than this entire thread. Second, the trend was growth. GDP grew each quarter in those 21 months. GDP continued to grow. Policies take several quarters to grow GDP, so GDP growth in Q1-Q4 of 2017 really has almost nothing to do with policy from that year.

(03-04-2019, 05:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It is impossible to do a type of comparison that you are requesting of the exact same quarters, so why are you making it a point to discuss that?

It's not impossible, and I bring it up because it highlights real comparisons rather than whatever is going on in this thread.

(03-04-2019, 05:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Besides if Hillary had won, we would be hearing all about how great she is for the Economy.  

And I would be saying this same thing. I have been beating this horse for a long time. If you can point to policies that have a direct impact on GDP growth, then you can claim that amount of economic growth. But the number of things involved in economic growth is huge. The number of moving parts makes the POTUS close to irrelevant. The biggest impact the president has on GDP? Government spending. Trump has spent more money while in office, and that increases GDP. That is the largest measurable effect from the president on economic figures. Of course, it's digging us further into a debt which used to be a big issue for conservatives. So take from that what you will.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-04-2019, 06:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: I strongly dispute that he is Adolf Hitler. You think anyone will call me a Trump supporter now?

Jesus why don’t you just steal some American’s identity and vote for the guy if you love him so much?

[hollodero]

(03-04-2019, 10:14 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Jesus why don’t you just steal some American’s identity and vote for the guy if you live him so much?

Nah, my plan was to board some American board and be so obnoxiusly and self-righteously anti-Trump there just to drive a few doubters right back into his camp.
This way, I even get multiple votes.

[Dill]

(03-04-2019, 06:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: I strongly dispute that he is Adolf Hitler. You think anyone will call me a Trump supporter now?

Woops, you dropped something Hollo. Oh, it's your hat.  Here it is.

[fredtoast]

Trump has removed lots of regulations on business that have not made the news. Not saying that is a good thing for the general public, but it is good for business.

He has also pumped up military spending which inflates the GDP.

Any President can boost the economy if he does not care about the federal deficit, or the safety of citizens, or the environment.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-04-2019, 09:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're also one hell of a fantasy football player  :andy:

(03-04-2019, 09:18 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh yeah, he was the one beating me in the final of this board's league, right? I don't know if I failed to congratulate... if so, congratulations.

HAHAH Thanks guys!