Trump Is Giving This Country Its Identity Back

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose it depends on what you consider right. But if it makes them feel better and they would prefer being right over coming up with solutions then YES.

Well, in this case "right" is the people who pointed out that Trump would say anything to anyone and promise whatever got him the most applause with no thought or depth behind the "ideas".  And that once he got elected he wouldn't do any of those populist things because he doesn't care about them.

So, yes.  "Right".

There are other possible solutions to the things Trump talked about.  Heck, half the things he talked about weren't solutions at all and the rest weren't even problems.

"Lock her up".

[Belsnickel]

(04-17-2017, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said a 100 times: Everybody wanted a Washington outsider until we got one. 

I never wanted a Washington outsider. When it comes to POTUS, I want someone who has been in government. I want a former governor, someone who has spent time in an executive agency at a high level maybe. Maybe somone who spent time in the SES. I want someone that understands the system and can work within it because that is their job as the elected official in the executive branch.

But that is just me.

[hollodero]

(04-17-2017, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Welp I suppose all you and others can do is "fight the good fight" and continue to self-assigned unmasking task for the next 3.5 years. always found construction more beneficial than destruction, but that's just me.

For me it's more about observation. I don't think defending Trump is "constructive" though. Only supporting constructive forces actually is.

-- Regarding the promises, it's not just that promises get broken. Every politician overstates things, makes promises he then kan't keep due to political backlash or lack of actual will or whatever, has some kind of hidden agenda. Everybody knows that.
Trump, however, sold phantasies. Better healthcare for everyone for a fraction of the cost. Mexico paynig for a wall. Eradicating ISIS very quickly. And all the other things. Phantasies.

And if you think Hillary's or anyone's promises were just as illusional, then you are. It's not about "good fights" or "feeling better" for pointing out that what was assumed is now proven, all those phantasies, lies and nonsense. People like you should start feeling bad, that's it. Not so much for voting for Trump. But for continuing to defend his lies, belittle his blunders, creating false equivalencies that more and more defy reality and logic. Again, from a more observational standpoint the ongoing Trump defense resembles being caught up in an absurd illusion - or feeling so much hatred for liberals that actually everyone who isn't is a better choice. Welp indeed.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 12:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I never wanted a Washington outsider. When it comes to POTUS, I want someone who has been in government. I want a former governor, someone who has spent time in an executive agency at a high level maybe. Maybe somone who spent time in the SES. I want someone that understands the system and can work within it because that is their job as the elected official in the executive branch.

But that is just me.

This is a good position and I too would prefer someone experienced for the job (good experience of course); which is why I went through supporting every other GOP candidate against Trump until they were all eliminated. WTS, I'd add Military Background to your list. This is why my dream candidate was Allen West. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 12:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Even if it's the construction of a lie built upon other lies?

What Trump has "constructed" so far is a mere fake facade in front of an empty warehouse.

(04-17-2017, 12:48 PM)hollodero Wrote: For me it's more about observation. I don't think defending Trump is "constructive" though. Only supporting constructive forces actually is.

Oh perhaps you both misunderstood. My comment was solely addressed at the anti-Trump crowd.

By constructive I meant they should be looking more to build toward what is next instead of focusing all their energy on the split milk. Mid-terms are just around the corner.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2017, 12:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump was the perfect outsider. A successful businessman that had expressed Political views in the past. Comparing him to Manson lets me know you really have no legitimate counter.

Perfect outsider is a stretch.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 12:59 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Perfect outsider is a stretch.

But comparing him to Manson was not? Or did you just not feel compelled to respond to that one?

[Rotobeast]

Continuing to spread our "identity".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/13/politics/us-troops-somalia/index.html

The more people we are "at war" with, the more fear created for controlling the masses.

Damn.... I'm developing filthy commie liberal overtones.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 01:07 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Continuing to spread our "identity".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/13/politics/us-troops-somalia/index.html

The more people we are "at war" with, the more fear created for controlling the masses.

Damn.... I'm developing filthy commie liberal overtones.


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Bravo. I hope other civilized countries join our efforts to help out the oppressed in Africa. Seems the last time we focused on helping that region was during the Bush Jr Presidency.

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 12:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump was the perfect outsider. A successful businessman that had expressed Political views in the past. Comparing him to Manson lets me know you really have no legitimate counter.

Calling him the "perfect outsider" while denying you support him and missing the point of my comparison let's me know you just want to argue and not face the reality of who Trump was/is.

[Rotobeast]

(04-17-2017, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bravo. I hope other civilized countries join our efforts to help out the oppressed in Africa. Seems the last time we focused on helping that region was during the Bush Jr Presidency.

Honestly, I had been calling for us to help the region.
The atrocities committed there are rivaled by very few.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2017, 01:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But comparing him to Manson was not? Or did you just not feel compelled to respond to that one?

Did he compare Trump to Manson? I think that is a bit of a stretch, too.

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/military-times-survey-july-donald-trump-hillary-clinton

According to one Military Times poll, the majority of active duty military were dissatisfied with their choices. Far from perfect outsider.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 01:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: Calling him the "perfect outsider" while denying you support him and missing the point of my comparison let's me know you just want to argue and not face the reality of who Trump was/is.

He was the "perfect outsider' as far as credentials especially when someone uses extreme hyperbole to place him in the same category as Charles Manson. I gave specifics as to what made him the perfect outsider. A successful businessman that had expressed his political views in the past. I did not say he was the perfect Candidate; perhaps that is where the disconnect lies.  

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2017, 01:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Did he compare Trump to Manson?  I think that is a bit of a stretch, too.

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/military-times-survey-july-donald-trump-hillary-clinton

According to one Military Times poll, the majority of active duty military were dissatisfied with their choices. Far from perfect outsider.

I see you follow Dino in the misunderstanding of perfect outsider compared to perfect candidate.

As to Dino comparing Trump to Manson: Of course he did.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2017, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bravo. I hope other civilized countries join our efforts to help out the oppressed in Africa. Seems the last time we focused on helping that region was during the Bush Jr Presidency.

We deployed units in the recent past to aid during the Ebola outbreak.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2017, 01:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I see you follow Dino in the misunderstanding of perfect outsider compared to perfect candidate.

If Trump is the perfect outside then there literally isn't a single candidate outside of politics who is a better candidate.

Quote:As to Dino comparing Trump to Manson: Of course he did.

If Dino compared Trump to Manson then he also compared Trump to you. Arguably, both are equally ridiculous.

[GMDino]

(04-17-2017, 01:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If Trump is the perfect outside then there literally isn't a single candidate outside of politics who is a better candidate.


If Dino compared Trump to Manson then he also compared Trump to you. Arguably, both are equally ridiculous.

Dino said that "outsider" applies to...everyone outside.

Manson (either one), me, you....etc.

But it's easier to focus on taking one thing and making it all about that than addressing the actual context of the post.  And the beat goes on...

[Dill]

(04-17-2017, 12:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I never wanted a Washington outsider. When it comes to POTUS, I want someone who has been in government. I want a former governor, someone who has spent time in an executive agency at a high level maybe. Maybe somone who spent time in the SES. I want someone that understands the system and can work within it because that is their job as the elected official in the executive branch.

But that is just me.

This=well said.  I never wanted an "outsider," nor did my wife nor my daughter nor my son nor my next door neighbor.

[hollodero]

(04-17-2017, 02:58 PM)Dill Wrote: This=well said.  I never wanted an "outsider," nor did my wife nor my daughter nor my son nor my next door neighbor.

In general, I can understand the appeal though. I've learned that Americans consider all career politicians to be total sellouts. Probably because they actually are.

The moment it's Trump vs. Hillary, one has to think about public campaign funding. Yet no one does. It remains Kochs and Soros and SuperPACs and lobbies and Wall Street. Trump actually could make the case that he doesn't need to be bought by those people, and although that's probably not true I really saw the point there.

[Dill]

(04-17-2017, 12:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump was the perfect outsider. A successful businessman that had expressed Political views in the past. Comparing him to Manson lets me know you really have no legitimate counter.

Dino was not comparing Trump to Manson--beyond the point both are Washington outsiders, as are most of the people in this forum.

He was arguing that the "outsider" criterion is broad and inadequate, by indicating that 
someone whom even most Trumpsters would reject could meet the standard.

If the criterion is "businessman", then Trump trumps him, of course. Trump may not be a great businessmen (and great businessmen have made very bad presidents in the past), but I agree he is likely a better businessman than Manson.


But if outsider is the criterion, then Manson's outsider status is every bit as "perfect" as Trump's.
Which well illustrates what a lousy criterion it is.