Trump: 'My employees are having a tremendous problem with Obamacare'

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2016, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Mind telling me how this has anything to do with Trump's statements on his employees' feelings towards Obamacare or the article discussing such?

Here is the piont you are missing.  When trump chose the specific group of people (my employees) it was implied that he was speaking from a position of knowledge based on their status as his employees.  I don't think anyone (except the few around here who bend over backwards to defend Trump) thinks his comment was based on knowledge he obtained by speaking personally with all of his individual employees.  Therefore the only logical conclusion is that the ACA was having some significant bad effects on the benefits that his employees receive because they work for Trump.  And in that case the articel did prove that Trump was wrong because there are no known negative effects on the benefits all of his employees are receiving.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I seriously know very little about my health insurance. I do know that my premiums went up after it went into effect. So, in that sense, I have A problem with Obamacare. But, outside of that, I don't know what other effects, if any, Obamacare has on my insurance thus I cannot honestly say I have a tremendous problem with it.

Mind telling me how this has anything to do with Trump's statements on his employees' feelings towards Obamacare or the article discussing such?

Trump didn't comment on his employee's "feelings."  Trump stated all of them have a tremendous problem with Obamacare.  He never stated what that tremendous problem is.  How can anyone disprove the problem is a tremendous problem when no one knows what the problem is in order to disprove it?  The obvious answer is the tremendous problem can't be disproven because he never stated what the problem is.

Reminds me of a patient who I saw requesting a prescription for her "colitis."  She couldn't tell me what type of colitis she had or the name of the prescription she used in the past and wanted me to refill.  Her friend chimed in, "She can't see her doctor because of Obamacare."  That's an example of a tremendous problem.  I checked her chart and she has an employer sponsored Humana HMO policy.  She didn't have an Obamacare policy. 

I asked, "What did your doctor tell you."

She answered, "I called my gastroenterologist and they told me I needed a referral."

Yeah, she needed a referral from her PCP because she has an HMO policy and it had been more than 3 years since she had seen her gastro so the insurance company requires a pre-authroization for referrals which can only come from her PCP.  None of that crap has anything to do with Obamacare.  It took less than a minute to disprove she had a tremendous problem with Obamacare and to explain her problem was standard practice among health insurance companies.  

My homeowner's and auto insurance premiums went up.  Thanks, Obamacare for increasing my premiums!  In the two decades prior to Obamacare, health insurance premiums increased approximately 200% while employer contributions decreased 50%.  For example; if a plan's premium was $100/month the employer would contribute $50/month and the employee would contribute $50/month.  With a 200% increase in price that same plan would now cost $300/month.  With the 50% reduction in employer contributions, the employer would contribute $75/month and the employee would contribute $225/month.  This means the employee would pay 350% more for the same policy and none of that has a damn thing to do with Obamacare.

So your premiums went up, my premiums went down for the past three years . . . and it doesn't have anything to do with Obamacare.  If the usual premium increases were increasing at an increased rate then Obamacare would probably be contributing to the increased rate increases.  But, so far, the data isn't showing that happening.  Blaming the increased premiums for your health insurance on Obamacare is like me blaming the increase in my auto insurance premiums on Obamacare.

You don't have a tremendous problem with Obamacare, I don't, Sunset doesn't, bfine doesn't, and no one else in this thread has a tremendous problem with it.  Not all of the Salvation Army's employees have a tremendous problem with Obamacare since you, at least, don't have a tremendous problem with Obamacare.  Same applies to Sunset's employer, Sunset's wife's employer, bfine's employer, and my employer.  I'm the only one of the aforementioned group that even knows anyone with a tremendous problem with Obamacare and in my experience that is about half a dozen patients out of an estimated 20,000-25,000 patient encounters since Obamacare was first offered.

I didn't ask if the article proved Trump was a liar or uninformed.  I asked if he was.  You can figure that out on your own.  The article doesn't need to do it for you.

In conclusion, do you know why people come to Goodwill?  Because they all have a tremendous problem with the Salvation Army.  Do you think I am a liar or misinformed?  Good luck proving they all don't have a tremendous problem.  Until such time you can prove I'm a liar or misinformed, my statement stands.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2016, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Practices that Obamacare was claimed to be going to protect people from..  Ever see the Obama quote about American families can expect to save about $2500 per year?  If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor? etc, etc.

Instead, all that has happened in reality is that the cost per worker is going up, and the number of companies providing insurance is decreasing.

I haven't been able to find any information supporting this claim.  What I did find is the number of health insurance employees have increased each year, except 2010, since 1990.

Explain how the number of companies are decreasing, but the number of employees are increasing.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2016, 04:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I haven't been able to find any information supporting this claim.  What I did find is the number of health insurance employees have increased each year, except 2010, since 1990.

Explain how the number of companies are decreasing, but the number of employees are increasing.

Not sure how it is in your State, but in North Carolina we went from 3 ACA compliant carriers to 2.  All that remain are BCBS and Coventry, a subsidiary of Aetna.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 05:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure how it is in your State, but in North Carolina we went from 3 ACA compliant carriers to 2.  All that remain are BCBS and Coventry, a subsidiary of Aetna.

I just searched for individual health insurance plans for NC and there were 4 different carriers, none of which were BCBS or Coventry. Are those the plans your employer offered during open enrollment?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Not 100% related to this, but since everyone here is already talking about the ACA.

Just saw that ACA premiums are going up by an average of 22% next year.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/10/27/the-5-lamest-excuses-for-obamacares-22-premium-hike/#76b06ed56189

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2016, 05:35 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I just searched for individual health insurance plans for NC and there were 4 different carriers, none of which were BCBS or Coventry. Are those the plans your employer offered during open enrollment?

It was announced on the local news, earlier this year.  I'm thinking maybe April or May.

[SunsetBengal]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinerestrepo/2016/04/23/north-carolinas-obamacare-exchange-and-then-there-were-two/#39ab06044b1c

[quote]I just searched for individual health insurance plans for NC and there were 4 different carriers, none of which were BCBS or Coventry. Are those the plans your employer offered during open enrollment?[/quote]

That article references what I heard in the news.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 05:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not 100% related to this, but since everyone here is already talking about the ACA.

Just saw that ACA premiums are going up by an average of 22% next year.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/10/27/the-5-lamest-excuses-for-obamacares-22-premium-hike/#76b06ed56189

Second paragraph . . . 

Quote:Obamacare’s history of rate shock

2017 isn’t the first year to see Obamacare rate hikes. The most profound hikes took place in 2014, Obamacare’s first year, when the health law’s thicket of insurance regulations drove up the cost of coverage by an average of 49%. Premiums for Obamacare “silver” plans went up by 7 and 11% in 2015 and 2016, according to McKinsey & Co. Add onto that the reported 22% increase in 2017, and you have a cumulative increase of 116%: more than double the pre-Obamacare rate.

49+7+11+22=89% not 116%


Open the first link regarding the 49% increase. They did a county by county analysis of increases. They were unable to collect data from 3137 of 3144 counties. 


Doesn't sound as cool if they claimed the rate increased by 49% in 7 counties.   Or that it affects approximately 6% or less  of health insurance policies in 0.2% of the nations counties


So the 49% increase only applies to 7 counties, the 22% is a projection, and I'm not sure where the difference between 89% and 116% came from. 


Also, this doesn't affect anyone with with employer sponsored insurance (80% of Americans), Medicare, or Medicaid at a minimum. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-01-2016, 06:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Second paragraph . . . 



49+7+11+22=89% not 116%


Open the first link regarding the 49% increase. They did a county by county analysis of increases. They were unable to collect data from 3137 of 3144 counties. 


Doesn't sound as cool if they claimed the rate increased by 49% in 7 counties. 


So the 49% increase only applies to 7 counties, the 22% is a projection, and I'm not sure where the difference between 89% and 116% came from. 

No idea, but I didn't mention the 49% or even the 116% bit.

I just was pointing out the 22% increase coming. Probably could have used a different article, but that's just where I happened to see the 22%. Saw it elsewhere after I knew it was a thing.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 06:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No idea, but I didn't mention the 49% or even the 116% bit.

I just was pointing out the 22% increase coming. Probably could have used a different article, but that's just where I happened to see the 22%. Saw it elsewhere after I knew it was a thing.

I'm not going to download the report on my phone, so I'll comment on that later. But, obviously Forbes is deliberately fudging the numbers. Do you trust their reporting knowing they are deliberately misrepresenting the numbers?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 06:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: http://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinerestrepo/2016/04/23/north-carolinas-obamacare-exchange-and-then-there-were-two/#39ab06044b1c



That article references what I heard in the news.

It took me less than a minute to prove that article incorrect. That article only refers to the individual policy market. Your employer sponsored health insurance plan also has to be "ACA compliant" which dramatically increases the number of companies offering "ACA compliant" health insurance making your original claim even more incorrect.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Sunset, when you were self-employed where did you get your health insurance?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-01-2016, 06:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm not going to download the report on my phone, so I'll comment on that later. But, obviously Forbes is deliberately fudging the numbers. Do you trust their reporting knowing they are deliberately misrepresenting the numbers?

Except once I found out it was a thing, I checked other locations. (Never trust news from a single source.) That's why I even said I "probably should have used a different article"

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/24/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html
"Obamacare premiums are set to skyrocket an average of 22% for the benchmark silver plan in 2017, according to a government report released Monday.
The benchmark silver plan -- upon which federal subsidies are based -- will cost an average of $296 a month next year."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/average-obamacare-premiums-to-rise-22-percent/article/2605440
"Obamacare shoppers in most states will see premiums rise by 22 percent and have 36 percent fewer plans to choose from next year, according to insurance plan data released Monday by the Obama administration."

http://moneymorning.com/2016/11/01/who-pays-for-obamacare/
"Last week when the Obama administration announced that Obamacare premiums would rise an average of 22% for 2017, officials offered words of reassurance."

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-01-2016, 07:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except once I found out it was a thing, I checked other locations. (Never trust news from a single source.) That's why I even said I "probably should have used a different article"

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/24/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html
"Obamacare premiums are set to skyrocket an average of 22% for the benchmark silver plan in 2017, according to a government report released Monday.
The benchmark silver plan -- upon which federal subsidies are based -- will cost an average of $296 a month next year."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/average-obamacare-premiums-to-rise-22-percent/article/2605440
"Obamacare shoppers in most states will see premiums rise by 22 percent and have 36 percent fewer plans to choose from next year, according to insurance plan data released Monday by the Obama administration."

http://moneymorning.com/2016/11/01/who-pays-for-obamacare/
"Last week when the Obama administration announced that Obamacare premiums would rise an average of 22% for 2017, officials offered words of reassurance."

(10-26-2016, 10:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have not' outside of a slight increase in premiums (20ish%), but I don't work for Trump or have any idea of the plans his employees are offered;  apparently you do.

Bfine reports his premiums went up similarly and he doesn't have Obamacare. My rates went down and I don't have Obamacare. Does that tell you anything?

[Vas Deferens]

(11-02-2016, 12:40 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Bfine reports his premiums went up similarly and he doesn't have Obamacare. My rates went down and I don't have Obamacare. Does that tell you anything?

You're proving them wrong at every turn.  From what I can tell the biggest flaw in the ACA is that some taste maker they adhere to attached a black mans name to it.  Sad as it is.  It's true. 

[Dill]

(10-27-2016, 08:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:  But now, we have to decide weather it's worth going to see the Doctor if we're not feeling well...  I was raised to believe that the entire idea of insurance was to alleviate the cost of unexpected events.  Turns out, even if you have paid for coverage, it still costs to use it.  What the hell is that??

Capitalism?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2016, 12:40 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Bfine reports his premiums went up similarly and he doesn't have Obamacare. My rates went down and I don't have Obamacare. Does that tell you anything?

.....That you don't know what the word "average" means?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-03-2016, 04:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: .....That you don't know what the word "average" means?

If Obamacare premiums are "skyrocketing" as one article described, why are bfine's premiums skyrocketing at the same rate as the Obamacare average increase?

[Mike M (the other one)]

https://www.healthinsurance.org/oklahoma-state-health-insurance-exchange/

BCBSOK will be sole exchange carrier; average rate increase = 76%

Oklahoma uses the federally-facilitated exchange, which means enrollees use Healthcare.gov. There were more than 130,000 people with effectuated coverage through the Oklahoma exchange as of March 2016 — up from 106,392 a year earlier.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Oklahoma will be the only carrier offering plans in the exchange in 2017, but they already have 95 percent of the exchange market share. BCBSOK revised their individual market rate filing in August 2016, proposing an average rate increase of 76 percent for 2017; state regulators confirmed in October that the 76 percent average rate increase would take effect in January 2017. Oklahoma’s average rate increase for the individual market is by far the highest in the country for 2017.
-------------------------

Better now? That's almost double in one year.
The reason I found out about it, is because one of my friends complained of a 54% increase for the same plan yoy.