Quote: “He said he didn't meddle, he said he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times. Every time he sees me he says, ‘I didn't do that,’ and I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it.”
"I mean, give me a break, they are political hacks. So you look at it, I mean, you have [former CIA Director John] Brennan, you have [former Director of National Intelligence James] Clapper and you have [former FBI Director Jim] Comey. Comey is proven now to be a liar and he is proven now to be a leaker. So you look at that and you have President Putin very strongly, vehemently says he had nothing to do with them."
After initially suggesting he believes Putin over the US intelligence community, he partially walked back his words when asked to clarify them
Quote:"I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election. As to whether I believe it or not, I'm with our agencies, especially as currently constituted with their leadership"
(11-13-2017, 10:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: After initially suggesting he believes Putin over the US intelligence community, he partially walked back his words when asked to clarify them
After asking so many times he only has one choice, to just move on from this and go forward working with Russia on what we can work together.
Election meddling happens and other than exposing DNC corruption it didn’t really do much of anything.
A lot of people feared Trump's international diplomacy. Boy has he proved them wrong.
Japan: You should build cars in America.
Result: Overnight, Japanese car makers spend several billion dollars building manufacturing plants and hire 61,000(ish) Americans to produce 75% of their cars sold here.
Russia: You should hack Hillary Clinton.
Result: Hillary Clinton's personal emails are released to the public, leading to Trump calling intelligence leaders hacks and saying Russia didn't do that thing he asked them to do that they did.
Mexico: You bunch of rapist-murders, you're going to build a wall and clean up your country of bad hombres, or we're sending in the military.
Result: Everyone in Mexico collectively telling Trump to **** off and making him look impotent.
(11-13-2017, 10:53 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Election meddling happens and other than exposing DNC corruption it didn’t really do much of anything.
It does happen, but it is an attack on a nation's sovereignty. This is true if we or anyone else does it. The nonchalant attitude for that among some people is baffling to me. And what they did was a lot more than the email hacking. They manufactured and disseminated fake news (legitimate fake news, not what MAGA social media calls fake news) and utilized polling data to target specific areas with the information in an effort to sway voters.
(11-13-2017, 11:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It does happen, but it is an attack on a nation's sovereignty. This is true if we or anyone else does it. The nonchalant attitude for that among some people is baffling to me. And what they did was a lot more than the email hacking. They manufactured and disseminated fake news (legitimate fake news, not what MAGA social media calls fake news) and utilized polling data to target specific areas with the information in an effort to sway voters.
No it isn’t.
Altering votes is an attack on our sovereignty. All that was done was DNC and Podesta emails were released to just confirm what everyone thought about Clinton and the dems anyway..... they were corrupt.
Should we be concerned about this? Yes. But beyond the dnc and John Podesta getting some cyber security there isn’t much to any of this....
Trying to play this up is just more nonsense. Obama targeted Bibi during his election by finding and supporting his opponent. Obama also tapped the phones of Angela Merkel and her staff. None of these things makes the Russian’s role acceptable, but it does show that this stuff is common and should just be taken as such.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No it isn’t.
Altering votes is an attack on our sovereignty. All that was done was DNC and Podesta emails were released to just confirm what everyone thought about Clinton and the dems anyway..... they were corrupt.
You REALLY need to read something outside of the right wing noise machine and get up to speed on this. You are very wrong.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Should we be concerned about this? Yes. But beyond the dnc and John Podesta getting some cyber security there isn’t much to any of this....
...and spinning it back to the Democrats is a bit absurd.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trying to play this up is just more nonsense.
You're right...but not about what you think.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Obama targeted Bibi during his election by finding and supporting his opponent. Obama also tapped the phones of Angela Merkel and her staff. None of these things makes the Russian’s role acceptable, but it does show that this stuff is common and should just be taken as such.
Once you reach the bolded part the argument should end...but I get the feeling it won't because...Russia.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No it isn’t.
Yes, yes it is. A foreign government attempting to influence the democratic process of another country in any way is an attack on their sovereignty.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Altering votes is an attack on our sovereignty. All that was done was DNC and Podesta emails were released to just confirm what everyone thought about Clinton and the dems anyway..... they were corrupt.
That is not all that was done, as I have already explained.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Should we be concerned about this? Yes. But beyond the dnc and John Podesta getting some cyber security there isn’t much to any of this....
Actually, there is plenty to do about this. For example, sanctions to that they don't get away with it. Or maybe finding out who in the US with knowledge and understanding of our electoral process assisted them in their targeting because out intelligence indicates that they did not have a sophisticated enough understanding of the process prior to this election cycle. Lots to be done in the wake of what happened.
(11-13-2017, 12:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trying to play this up is just more nonsense. Obama targeted Bibi during his election by finding and supporting his opponent. Obama also tapped the phones of Angela Merkel and her staff. None of these things makes the Russian’s role acceptable, but it does show that this stuff is common and should just be taken as such.
I'm not okay with outside influences into the democratic process, I never will be. A republic exists as a representative democracy wherein the citizens are the rulers. That is how our government is supposed to work. When a foreign government intervenes in the process by which our citizens have a voice in choosing the representatives in our government, then that breaks down our government. It takes away the voices of citizens. An informed electorate is imperative to the continuation of our republic and the method by which Russian intelligence manipulated the public during the 2016 election cycle shows how easily the process can be corrupted. Misinformation, especially targeted in such a sophisticated way, is a threat to our democracy.
(11-13-2017, 01:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, yes it is. A foreign government attempting to influence the democratic process of another country in any way is an attack on their sovereignty.
That is not all that was done, as I have already explained.
Actually, there is plenty to do about this. For example, sanctions to that they don't get away with it. Or maybe finding out who in the US with knowledge and understanding of our electoral process assisted them in their targeting because out intelligence indicates that they did not have a sophisticated enough understanding of the process prior to this election cycle. Lots to be done in the wake of what happened.
I'm not okay with outside influences into the democratic process, I never will be. A republic exists as a representative democracy wherein the citizens are the rulers. That is how our government is supposed to work. When a foreign government intervenes in the process by which our citizens have a voice in choosing the representatives in our government, then that breaks down our government. It takes away the voices of citizens. An informed electorate is imperative to the continuation of our republic and the method by which Russian intelligence manipulated the public during the 2016 election cycle shows how easily the process can be corrupted. Misinformation, especially targeted in such a sophisticated way, is a threat to our democracy.
You can only sanction a country so much. It’s like grounding your child for a year. We have reached the point with sanctions with Russia that it’s just not effective because they have lived with them so long that they found ways around.
It is ok for us to move on and work together on the things we can work. While keeping an eye on them and others because we know what they did/tried to do.
(11-13-2017, 01:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You can only sanction a country so much. It’s like grounding your child for a year. We have reached the point with sanctions with Russia that it’s just not effective because they have lived with them so long that they found ways around.
It is ok for us to move on and work together on the things we can work. While keeping an eye on them and others because we know what they did/tried to do.
I have no issue with cooperation with Russia on some things, but ignoring that they did what they did will only embolden them and mean their efforts will continue, especially under Putin. Putin does not like the US; never has, never will. Our cooperation with Russia can only go so far with him ruling the country.
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: You REALLY need to read something outside of the right wing noise machine and get up to speed on this. You are very wrong.
...and spinning it back to the Democrats is a bit absurd.
You're right...but not about what you think.
Once you reach the bolded part the argument should end...but I get the feeling it won't because...Russia.
Post all cases of Russians changing votes or Russians voting.
There have been numerous cases of illegals from Central America voting. Since they are foreign nationals can we also say Central American countries were meddling in our elections. Since they have their people voting in the USA they are more of a threat than the “Russians”
(11-13-2017, 01:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Post all cases of Russians changing votes or Russians voting.
There have been numerous cases of illegals from Central America voting. Since they are foreign nationals can we also say Central American countries were meddling in our elections. Since they have their people voting in the USA they are more of a threat than the “Russians”
This post completly ignores what was done to ask for proof of something that was not said was done.
I believe someone once said : The proof is out there. It's not my job to find it for you.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(11-13-2017, 01:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Post all cases of Russians changing votes or Russians voting.
Repeating a claim that was never made and asking people to defend it while ignoring the claim they did make doesn't contribute anything to this thread.
(11-13-2017, 01:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have no issue with cooperation with Russia on some things, but ignoring that they did what they did will only embolden them and mean their efforts will continue, especially under Putin. Putin does not like the US; never has, never will. Our cooperation with Russia can only go so far with him ruling the country.
Who said we should ignore? I said work on what we can work on while keeping one eye on them.
The only thing that can come of this is to just keep an eye on them going forward. We can’t sanction them anymore.
(11-13-2017, 01:52 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Repeating a claim that was never made and asking people to defend it while ignoring the claim they did make doesn't contribute anything to this thread.
Is there a point to your disingenuity?
Corrupting our election was brought up and sorry but Funding Facebook ads for BLM doesnt constitute corruption.
The best part about this is that the dems and their groups are all getting g exposed with connections. I also have no doubts that Russian connections exist with the gop establishment as well.
(11-13-2017, 02:28 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Corrupting our election was brought up and sorry but Funding Facebook ads for BLM doesnt constitute corruption.
ok, but no one brought up Russians voting. The fact that you disagree with them mentioning the ad campaign doesn't mean you should make up other arguments.
(11-13-2017, 03:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: ok, but no one brought up Russians voting. The fact that you disagree with them mentioning the ad campaign doesn't mean you should make up other arguments.
Corrupting our election can only happen if they changed votes or voted.
Running adverts isn’t corruption.
More examples of Mexico corrupting our elections than Russia at this point.
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