Trump Slams Allies in favor of Putin (again)...

[jj22]

(07-16-2018, 02:58 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This isnt a dark era in our history, you just want to think it is. The truly dark era is still a ways off, hopefully.

And Merkel leader of the free world? As #85 said, 'Child Please'.

Who is the leader of the free world then? Right. Merkel. I know Trump supporters hate our Allies and want to be down with Putin, but you can't deny Merkel has led the free world in America absence. And thank God she has.

But your guy winks at Putin in front of the media which will be shown for years to come (as Putin smirks and winks back) when they ask him if he will bring up the attack on America by Russia (clearest sign yet of collusion). But carry on defending the attack of the country you guys supposedly love. Carry on winking at Putin and saluting Enemy Generals. As long as you don't kneel during some song from the 1800's right?

Who here watched that press conference and were proud? And why? How could you be? Even Fox News contributors said he was too cozy and comfortable with Putin and slammed the wink (although they said they are sure he didn't mean it how it looked, but admitted it wasn't a good reaction to the question, and blamed the media for asking him at that moment with Putin sitting there).

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 01:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Good link...but nothing about this year.  That's what was in the Forbes link.

Here you go, but stick with Forbes.


https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

[*michaelsean*]

I would assume Russia has tried to meddle in all our elections. I think Trump's denial is a s simple as he doesn't want to admit that it's possible he didn't win it all by himself.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 03:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I would assume Russia has tried to meddle in all our elections.  I think Trump's denial is a s simple as he doesn't want to admit that it's possible he didn't win it all by himself.

I think it's more of us seeing behind a previously closed curtain. If everything is 100% true: Are we to assume that this is the only time a foreign Nation has tried to influence the election in another country? How mush would we have heard about this if Hills would have won?

I tend to go with the train of thought that it is in our best interest to have Russia as a friend and bring them more into the international community. And perhaps they can help stabilize the Korean peninsula. Having enemies is never a good thing. WTS, I see how a Hillary supporter is mad because they think Russia cost her the election. personally, I think she cost herself the election. And we are back to blaming the source rather than the action.

[jj22]

Maybe as you wink at Putin and beg for his friendship you can request his nukes not be pointed at us? I mean they can blow us off the map in less than 10 minutes... Just saying. With friends like you hope to make with Putin, who needs enemy's.

[GMDino]

(07-16-2018, 03:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I would assume Russia has tried to meddle in all our elections.  I think Trump's denial is a s simple as he doesn't want to admit that it's possible he didn't win it all by himself.

So he's willing to put his own ego above the position of POTUS and defending America?

Gee.  Who could have seen that coming?  

(07-16-2018, 03:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think it's more of us seeing behind a previously closed curtain. If everything is 100% true: Are we to assume that this is the only time a foreign Nation has tried to influence the election in another country? How mush would we have heard about this if Hills would have won?

Given the Trump was already claiming that if he lost it was fixed I'd bet your salary we'd have head A LOT about it.

(07-16-2018, 03:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I tend to go with the train of thought that it is in our best interest to have Russia as a friend and bring them more into the international community. And perhaps they can help stabilize the Korean peninsula. Having enemies is never a good thing. WTS, I see how a Hillary supporter is mad because they think Russia cost her the election. personally, I think she cost herself the election. And we are back to blaming the source rather than the action.

Or, just spitballing here, or everyone without their noses up Trump's orange rear can see that the current POTUS is kowtowing to Putin despite all evidence to the contrary. A "man" in Trump who some around here consider "stronger" than Obama, I'll add.

Good relations with other countries? I'm right there with you. More peace, less war.

Lying to the American people and taking Putin at his word against all evidence otherwise? Nope.

(But then I don't have years invested in trying to spin what Trump does and says into being a good thing. )

So I still don't see a defense of what Trump has done...just more complaining that people don't want peace and Hillary supporters are complaining.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 03:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: So he's willing to put his own ego above the position of POTUS and defending America?

Gee.  Who could have seen that coming?  


Given the Trump was already claiming that if he lost it was fixed I'd bet your salary we'd have head A LOT about it.


Or, just spitballing here, or everyone without their noses up Trump's orange rear can see that the current POTUS is kowtowing to Putin despite all evidence to the contrary.  A "man" in Trump who some around here consider "stronger" than Obama, I'll add.

Good relations with other countries?  I'm right there with you.  More peace, less war.

Lying to the American people and taking Putin at his word against all evidence otherwise?  Nope.  

(But then I don't have years invested in trying to spin what Trump does and says into being a good thing.   )

So I still don't see a defense of what Trump has done...just more complaining that people don't want peace and Hillary supporters are complaining.

Welp, we'll never know if Hills would have opened the investigation into Russian meddling and exposed all here secrets and possible bias by investigators. personally, I would have kept it on the DL, but I'm less about transparency than many.

[hollodero]

(07-16-2018, 03:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think it's more of us seeing behind a previously closed curtain. If everything is 100% true: Are we to assume that this is the only time a foreign Nation has tried to influence the election in another country?

I am not aware that a foreign power ever hacked one party and published the retrieved documents before an election. If that is common, I'm living behind the moon.
I'm also not aware about any poropaganda campaign from a foreign power generating 2.400 fake ads, 80.000 fake posts and reaching supposedly 136 million Americans.

And sure, we are not supposed to look behing any curtain... except of course when it's about the DNC and how they chose their candidate. Then we need to know just about everything about it, never mind who lifted the curtain.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 04:08 PM)hollodero Wrote: I am not aware that a foreign power ever hacked one party and published the retrieved documents before an election. If that is common, I'm living behind the moon.
I'm also not aware about any poropaganda campaign from a foreign power generating 2.400 fake ads, 80.000 fake posts and reaching supposedly 136 million Americans.

And sure, we are not supposed to look behing any curtain... except of course when it's about the DNC and how they chose their candidate. Then we need to know just about everything about it, never mind who lifted the curtain.

So you do think this is the first time one Nation has tried to influence another's? 

FWIW, I said that when it came out about the DNC unfairly biasing Hills, it's something we didn't need to know; but it's out there (ot sure if that's something the Russians uncovered or not) and I'll focus on the action rather than the source.

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-10-2018, 10:39 AM)jj22 Wrote: Once again, Trump moves to align America with the East and against the West. Will his supporters uncover their eyes and unplug their ears and stand up for America? Or will these supposedly America first people continue to expose themselves as Anti America/Democracy? And when will we as Americans hold these traitors accountable like we do those who dare to kneel during some song from the 1800's.....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/10/trump-says-putin-summit-could-be-easiest-stop-european-tour-amid-nato-tensions.html

And there are still some who think Trump doesn't want America aligned with Russia and SK and against the West......

I think, we, western europeans just got out with the point that this dude is just not really trustable, that he speaks a lot and that finally, we can't take this guy as a serious interlocutor. 

He lies about any time he speaks so one more or one less ...

BTW, I would be confused if I was represented by this guy as our president.

We will wait America to come back as a normal ally and partner, you just have to vote for the other one the next time.

Cheers.

[jj22]

(07-16-2018, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you do think this is the first time one Nation has tried to influence another's? 

FWIW, I said that when it came out about the DNC unfairly biasing Hills, it's something we didn't need to know; but it's out there (ot sure if that's something the Russians uncovered or not) and I'll focus on the action rather than the source.

The DNC unfair biased to Hillary? I mean really where they supposed to help a man who wasn't even a Democrat? No one ever expected the RNC to help the Ryans (and they never did, outside of giving him a debate platform). This is fake news and sad that folks are still pushing this. Common sense tells us the DNC works for electing Dems. Not any ole body.

And no, no other presidential candidate or party was attacked and hacked by a foreign state. This was unprecedented, and biggest attack on America from foreign state since Pearl Harbor (thank God Trump supporters weren't around for that or they'd be cozying up to Japan).

Unless you can point to who this happened to as well as Hillary. We have actual receipts of the attack on Hillary and the DNC (hacks, timing of email releases 20 minutes after Trumps sexual assault confession was released)

[hollodero]

(07-16-2018, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you do think this is the first time one Nation has tried to influence another's? 

No, I do not think that and did not say I think that. I tried to point out that it never happened on that kind of scale with an election. Which I think is true. Also, of course this time we obviously know who did it.
It isn't the first time probably in an election either. But how on earth could that mean we just should look the other way and say squat about a president calling an investigation into that a rigged witch hunt, the media reporting it fake news and that Putin is to be believed over the heads of all the agencies, his own appointees included.

(07-16-2018, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: FWIW, I said that when it came out about the DNC unfairly biasing Hills, it's something we didn't need to know; but it's out there (ot sure if that's something the Russians uncovered or not) and I'll focus on the action rather than the source.

The one doesn't include the other though. One can focus on both things.
The Russian meddling is also "out there". In that case, and maybe I read that wrong, it seems like you'd rather focus on the source than the action. At least you're very fine obviously with Trump denying the action and discrediting the source.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 04:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: The DNC unfair biased to Hillary? I mean really where they supposed to help a man who wasn't even a Democrat? No one ever expected the RNC to help the Ryans (and they never did). This is fake news and sad that folks are still pushing this. Common sense tells us the DNC works for electing Dems. Not any ole body.

And no, no other presidential candidate or party was attacked and hacked by a foreign state. Unprecedented. Unless you can point to who this happened to as well as Hillary. 

The DNC is not "supposed" to help anyone.

Let's see if I can make this perfectly clear:

What Russia did was wrong and Trump should have called Putin out on it and moved on from there. It is absolutely disgusting that it appears he took the word of the Russian President against the findings of our own intel. He should have told Putin, if you are innocent why not extradite the offenders to clear their names or at a minimum allow a team of neutral members to interview the folks.

WTS, Hillary has no one to blame for her actions but herself and all the "it's Russia's fault" is not going to change that.

 

[jj22]

(07-16-2018, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The DNC is not "supposed" to help anyone.

Let's see if I can make this perfectly clear:

What Russia did was wrong and Trump should have called Putin out on it and moved on from there. It is absolutely disgusting that it appears he took the word of the Russian President against the findings of our own intel. He should have told Putin, if you are innocent why not extradite the offenders to clear their names or at a minimum allow a team of neutral members to interview the folks.

WTS, Hillary has no one to blame for her actions but herself and all the "it's Russia's fault" is not going to change that.

 

Sorry Bfine but the DNC supports and helps elect Dems. This wouldn't be shocking if it wasn't for Trump supporters crying over fake news that the DNC didn't help a man who specifically stated he wasn't a Democrat. Now suddenly the DNC (but certainly not the RNC I guess) has to support and help elect everyone? Even Republicans I suppose.

As far as Hillary. She at least should have been able to lose fair and square. Instead it took the help of a foreign nation. But yea, slam her for not being able to defeat a candidate and a powerful foreign nation.

[hollodero]

(07-16-2018, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's see if I can make this perfectly clear:

What Russia did was wrong and Trump should have called Putin out on it and moved on from there. It is absolutely disgusting that it appears he took the word of the Russian President against the findings of our own intel. He should have told Putin, if you are innocent why not extradite the offenders to clear their names or at a minimum allow a team of neutral members to interview the folks.

Oh... OK then! Crystal clear to me, and I agree on that. My bad I read something else into your words.
Now if you'd also add that calling the investigation that turned up all that a rigged witch hunt and to blame for bad relations is wrong too, as is calling the news on that fake, I'd be so pleased. But that's me asking for the cherry on top.

(07-16-2018, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WTS, Hillary has no one to blame for her actions but herself and all the "it's Russia's fault" is not going to change that.

I agree with that too.
It's not going to become a habit.

[BmorePat87]

(07-16-2018, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What Russia did was wrong and Trump should have called Putin out on it and moved on from there. It is absolutely disgusting that it appears he took the word of the Russian President against the findings of our own intel. He should have told Putin, if you are innocent why not extradite the offenders to clear their names or at a minimum allow a team of neutral members to interview the folks.

WTS, Hillary has no one to blame for her actions but herself and all the "it's Russia's fault" is not going to change that.

 

This is a 100% reasonable response to the issue of Russian interference.

Russians didn't cause Trump to win, but, according to our intelligence community, they 100% interfered and we should be standing up to that rather than backing down. 

[*michaelsean*]

(07-16-2018, 04:21 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I think, we, western europeans just got out with the point that this dude is just not really trustable, that he speaks a lot and that finally, we can't take this guy as a serious interlocutor. 

He lies about any time he speaks so one more or one less ...

BTW, I would be confused if I was represented by this guy as our president.

We will wait America to come back as a normal ally and partner, you just have to vote for the other one the next time.

Cheers.

A year and a half and poof.  New President. 

[Millhouse]

(07-16-2018, 03:13 PM)jj22 Wrote: Who is the leader of the free world then? Right. Merkel. I know Trump supporters hate our Allies and want to be down with Putin, but you can't deny Merkel has led the free world in America absence. And thank God she has.

But your guy winks at Putin in front of the media which will be shown for years to come (as Putin smirks and winks back) when they ask him if he will bring up the attack on America by Russia (clearest sign yet of collusion). But carry on defending the attack of the country you guys supposedly love. Carry on winking at Putin and saluting Enemy Generals. As long as you don't kneel during some song from the 1800's right?

Who here watched that press conference and were proud? And why? How could you be? Even Fox News contributors said he was too cozy and comfortable with Putin and slammed the wink (although they said they are sure he didn't mean it how it looked, but admitted it wasn't a good reaction to the question, and blamed the media for asking him at that moment with Putin sitting there).

No one is the leader of the free world as there really hasn't been one in a long time, at least since the days of the cold war when no other country or countries could counter the Soviets like the U.S. did. Because in those days, we truly were the leader of the free world with our military might, which made the President back then the de facto leader of the free world.


Another thing, Trump is not my guy, never was nor will be. His past rhetoric killed that for me. But just because I and others dont negatively chime in on every thing he does or say doesnt make us a Trumper. And just because a few of the things he does that I and others might agree with doesn't make us supporters either.

[Benton]

(07-16-2018, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The DNC is not "supposed" to help anyone.

 

Actually, they are. Just as labor unions, the military, etc., are supposed to advocate in the best interest of their members in appointing leadership, parties are supposed to work in the best interest of members in helping provide electable candidates aligned with the party views. The leadership in the DNC felt Hillary best fit the party interests and was most electable.

They were wrong, of course, but that's beside the point. 

As has been mentioned, they also didn't break any laws or try to undermine our democracy. Russia, on the other hand, did in trying to push the candidate that best fit that country's interests. 

Quote:Let's see if I can make this perfectly clear:


What Russia did was wrong and Trump should have called Putin out on it and moved on from there. It is absolutely disgusting that it appears he took the word of the Russian President against the findings of our own intel. He should have told Putin, if you are innocent why not extradite the offenders to clear their names or at a minimum allow a team of neutral members to interview the folks.

WTS, Hillary has no one to blame for her actions but herself and all the "it's Russia's fault" is not going to change that.

Agreed.

[Millhouse]

(07-16-2018, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you do think this is the first time one Nation has tried to influence another's? 

FWIW, I said that when it came out about the DNC unfairly biasing Hills, it's something we didn't need to know; but it's out there (ot sure if that's something the Russians uncovered or not) and I'll focus on the action rather than the source.

It was all fine and dandy for the U.S. to influence who would be in power in other countries over the decades, but when ours finally got tampered with, 'Oh hell no, this is just wrong!'. lol