Trump and the GOP will lose in 2024 unless..

[Luvnit2]

The 2022 and 2023 elections were huge victories for the DNC due to one issue libs own, that is abortion. The leader of the GOP party Trump is in the minority with Nikki Haley of accepting abortion, but with term limits of 15 weeks.

If the GOP continues their no abortion stance in 2024, Biden or the DNC nominee will be the POTUS and they will lose both houses in Congress. Abortion should have term limits with exceptions for any type of medical emergency and also exceptions for rape and incest within the term limits.

If GOP does not wake up, we can all ignore the bad polling of Biden, it will not matter.The DNC will use abortion to put an anchor on any GOP candidate who continues to say no abortion under any circumstance. Abortion with term limits respects the woman's decision while she carries a fetus, but then also protects the baby once they can live outside the womb.

Wake up GOP!!!!!!!

[GMDino]

(11-08-2023, 01:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The 2022 and 202e elections were huge victories for the DNC due to one issue libs own, that is abortion. The leader of the GOP party Trump is in the minority with Nikki Haley of accepting abortion, but with term limits of 15 weeks.

If the GOP continues their no abortion stance in 2024, Biden or the DNC nominee will be the POTUS and they will lose both houses in Congress. Abortion should have term limits with exceptions for any type of medical emergency and also exceptions for rape and incest within the term limits.

If GOP does not wake up, we can all ignore the bad polling of Biden, it will not matter.The DNC will use abortion to put an anchor on any GOP candidate who continues to say no abortion under any circumstance. Abortion with term limits respects the woman's decision while she carries a fetus, but then also protects the baby once they can live outside the womb.

Wake up GOP!!!!!!!

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4008311-trump-boasts-he-was-able-to-kill-roe-v-wade-takes-credit-for-state-abortion-bans/

Quote:Trump boasts he ‘was able to kill Roe v. Wade,’ takes credit for state abortion bans
BY [/url]BRETT SAMUELS - 05/17/23 10:31 AM ET

[url=https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fhomenews%2Fcampaign%2F4008311-trump-boasts-he-was-able-to-kill-roe-v-wade-takes-credit-for-state-abortion-bans%2F&picture=https%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F2%2F2023%2F02%2Ftrumpdonald_012823ap-alex-brandon_trump-legal.jpg%3Fw%3D900&title=Trump%20boasts%20he%20%26%238216%3Bwas%20able%20to%20kill%20Roe%20v.%20Wade%2C%26%238217%3B%20takes%20credit%20for%20state%20abortion%20bans&description=Former%20President%20Trump%20on%20Wednesday%20took%20credit%20for%20bringing%20about%20the%20end%20of%20Roe%20v.%20Wade%20and%20the%20restrictive%20abortion%20laws%20that%20have%20passed%20in%20the%20year%20since%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20struck%20down%20the%20landmark%20decision.%20Trump%2C%20in%20a%20post%20on%20Truth%20Social%2C%20said%20he%20%26ldquo%3Bwas%20able%20to%20kill%20Roe%20v.%20Wade%2C%20much%20to%20the%26hellip%3B]SHARETWEET







Former President Trump on Wednesday took credit for bringing about the end of Roe v. Wade and the restrictive abortion laws that have passed in the year since the Supreme Court struck down the landmark decision.

Trump, in a post on Truth Social, said he “was able to kill Roe v. Wade, much to the ‘shock’ of everyone,” and put the anti-abortion movement in a “strong negotiating position.”

“Without me there would be no 6 weeks, 10 weeks, 15 weeks, or whatever is finally agreed to,” he wrote. “Without me the pro Life movement would have just kept losing. Thank you President TRUMP!!!”

The comments are sure to be used by Democrats in future attack ads, with abortion access serving as a major motivating factor for voters since last June, when the Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade and the abortion protections that came with it.

Trump nominated three of the conservative justices who voted to end Roe v. Wade: Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett.
“Clip and save,” Ammar Moussa, a Democratic National Committee spokesperson, tweeted with a photo of Trump’s post.

Trump recently has avoided offering a clear answer on whether he would sign a federal abortion ban into law if elected in 2024.
During a CNN town hall last week, Trump repeatedly dodged the question when asked how far he’d be willing to go on a federal ban, saying only that he would work to find a solution that made sense for the country.

In an interview this week with The Messenger, Trump declined to say whether he supported Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis ® signing a ban on abortions after six weeks of pregnancy.

“I think that as a Florida resident, you know, he didn’t give an answer about, ‘Would you have signed the heartbeat bill that Florida did?’” responded DeSantis, Trump’s presumptive top challenger for the GOP nomination. “He won’t answer whether he would sign it or not.”

Last month, the Trump campaign told The Washington Post that the Supreme Court’s decision to leave abortion access at the state level was the right way to go. This statement drew outrage from anti-abortion groups such as Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, which has asked that all GOP presidential candidates endorse a 15-week abortion ban.

Yeah...he'll listen.

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 01:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4008311-trump-boasts-he-was-able-to-kill-roe-v-wade-takes-credit-for-state-abortion-bans/



Yeah...he'll listen.

Trump has already spoken out, try and keep up. He wants abortion term limits of 15 weeks. Haley also is on board with this while other GOP candidates still push far right no abortion.

Trump was right to push abortion back to the states versus a national mandate as it is contested issue and is different in Alabama than it is in New York. The states righty so can set their own laws on abortion.

[CJD]

(11-08-2023, 01:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Trump has already spoken out, try and keep up. He wants abortion term limits of 15 weeks. Haley also is on board with this while other GOP candidates still push far right no abortion.

Trump was right to push abortion back to the states versus a national mandate as it is contested issue and is different in Alabama than it is in New York. The states righty so can set their own laws on abortion.

I really struggle to rationalize anti-choice people conceding on 15 weeks.

If they truly, honestly believe that a fetus is a full person who deserves full rights, why would it matter if an abortion occurred at 14 weeks or 16 weeks? it's a person! (in their mind).

The same goes for the exceptions for rape and incest. Why would it matter if a person was created due to a rape or incest? It's a person! (in their mind). 

This is why the GOP's messaging on abortion is not winning elections. It objectively makes no sense. It feels insincere when they say they care about the life of the child because their limits and exceptions don't line up with their words or actions surrounding abortion.

[*Nately120*]

Trump has talked about the GOP needing to soften the stance on abortion to win, but I don't think Trump includes himself in that suggestion.  I think he can win despite his view on abortions, and I think he thinks he can win while keeping the unpopular stance, as well.

He will continue to brag up overturning Roe v Wade because that is what will get the most cheers from the people who come to see him.  With that being said, Ohio is a good example of how a liberal policy can win by 10 points, but Trump can brag about overturning Roe v Wade and he will continue to be praised by politicians who want a national ban and he'll still win Ohio by 10 points.  It's a 20 point swing on how poorly conservative policies perform versus how well conservative politicians like him do.

Trump can win in 2024 and republicans could possibly get the 60 senate seats needed to enact a federal ban (I think that's what it would take) and he won't mind doing it because that is what will cause the people who love and follow him the most to heap the most praise upon him.  He doesn't need to worry about national numbers or optics, because what little effort he puts into catering to people who don't already love him will completely be pointless since he can't stay in power via another election.

I'll also point out that you are asking for the GOP to soften their stance on abortion after the entire GOP got behind a speaker of the house who very much wants the opposite to occur.  I just don't see that happening.

With that being said, it's entirely possible a year from now we watch people praise the federal government for stepping in and regulating things because allowing states and the people within to choose was the "wrong" thing to do.

(11-08-2023, 01:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Wake up GOP!!!!!!!

Honest question, but do the majority of conservatives even admit that the voting on these issues is being fairly counted?  I could see them saying that abortion restriction is popular and Ohio (a state that went for Trump after he appointed the 3 SC justices who overturned Roe v Wade in the first place) voted NO on issue 1 but the voting machines changed YES to NO and democrats cheated their way to this like they did the White House.

I can see how it would be hard to convince people that you need to change your policy when a significant number of them refuse to accept that voting is an accurate representation of the acceptance or repudiation of those policies. 

YES protection of abortion won by 13.2% in a state that is GOP +8 or more? Doesn't that make conservatives suspicious of the voting machines again?

[HarleyDog]

(11-08-2023, 01:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I really struggle to rationalize anti-choice people conceding on 15 weeks.

What is significant about 15 weeks?

A fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks and feels pain at 20 weeks. IMO, These should be the target discussion points.

[GMDino]

(11-08-2023, 01:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Trump has already spoken out, try and keep up. He wants abortion term limits of 15 weeks. Haley also is on board with this while other GOP candidates still push far right no abortion.

Trump was right to push abortion back to the states versus a national mandate as it is contested issue and is different in Alabama than it is in New York. The states righty so can set their own laws on abortion.

P0135809 won't commit to anything or any limit.

He once said women getting abortions should be punished.  And he'll change that position again when someone tried to get him have an actual position on something.

Some states want to ban women from going to other states to get an abortion.  

[*pally*]

do you seriously think anyone will believe a sudden shift in the GOP's stance on abortion? No one believes they will do anything other than what they have tried to do since Roe was overturned. In fact, it will make them look even more hypocritical than they already do if suddenly they say they will allow abortion through 15 weeks.

If they want to get elected in 2024 maybe instead of just complaining about problems or standing in the way of attempts to fix them. they actually propose workable solutions. Maybe instead of focusing on culture wars that alienate them from 50% of the population they focus on ways to achieve unity. Maybe instead of running on grievances and revenge for the past they focus on positivity and the future

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2023, 02:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: P0135809 won't commit to anything or any limit.

He once said women getting abortions should be punished.  And he'll change that position again when someone tried to get him have an actual position on something.

Some states want to ban women from going to other states to get an abortion.  

Regardless of what Trump thinks, he will say and continue to say stuff that pleases the crowd in front of him.  He said something pro vaccine and as soon as the boos came in he did an about face, so there will be plenty of video of Trump saying anti-choice stuff that will be used against him...if it matters in the end is the question.

That's what is wacky about Trump as a politician, because he's really a performer performing in an area where people are usually held accountable for what they say.  Trump bragging up overturning Roe v Wade in front of an ultra conservative crowd that paid to see him is like Billy Joel performing Piano Man at MSG...it's just a given.

Trump himself has admitted that he's said stuff at rallies and in campaigns that he doesn't believe or won't do because it plays well and gets a response.  I feel like admitting that would really doom a politician, but not him.  So he can keep saying whatever he wants and if he runs on reasonable restrictions and then wins and says "That played better during the campaign" and doesn't do it, or if he does the exact opposite, you can't be shocked.

My main takeaway is that Trump says other people in the GOP need to soften on abortion, but I don't think he sees himself as one who needs to be held to that standard...go figure, right?

[CJD]

(11-08-2023, 02:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: What is significant about 15 weeks?

A fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks and feels pain at 20 weeks. IMO, These should be the target discussion points.

I agree that Conservatives should pick a reason for their landmark. Otherwise, it feels arbitrary and insincere.

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2023, 03:12 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I agree that Conservatives should pick a reason for their landmark. Otherwise, it feels arbitrary and insincere.

It is insincere coming from the top.  Their plan as seen via the speaker of the house they all got behind, and their attempt to prevent the Ohio vote to have an effect at all unless it reached 60% shows they are more interested in circumventing the will of the people through the system itself rather than compromising and adopting more moderate stances on key issues.

I don't doubt the sincerity of the conservative posters on this forum when it comes to compromise on this, but the GOP knows it is a few more Biden trip n falls away from being able to simply cut compromise and the will of the people right out of the equation.  Hillary being unpopular combined with "it may be legal but it isn't fair" actions via the EC and McConnell set up a situation where a president who didn't exactly get his position via mass appeal got to appoint 3 SC justices who overturned Roe v Wade, despite it not being exactly what most voters would have wanted.

Biden being as unpopular as Hillary in 2016 could lead to another EC win for Trump and we may find ourselves once again in a situation where the GOP can again use their power within the system we have to pass restrictions that people wouldn't enact if they actually had the means to vote upon them.


tl'dr - in 2016 democrats being unpopular and the system being slanted towards the GOP made it so they didn't need to compromise or do what the voters wanted and the same could happen in 2024

[CJD]

(11-08-2023, 03:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It is insincere coming from the top.  Their plan as seen via the speaker of the house they all got behind, and their attempt to prevent the Ohio vote to have an effect at all unless it reached 60% shows they are more interested in circumventing the will of the people through the system itself rather than compromising and adopting more moderate stances on key issues.

I don't doubt the sincerity of the conservative posters on this forum when it comes to compromise on this, but the GOP knows it is a few more Biden trip n falls away from being able to simply cut compromise and the will of the people right out of the equation.  Hillary being unpopular combined with "it may be legal but it isn't fair" actions via the EC and McConnell set up a situation where a president who didn't exactly get his position via mass appeal got to appoint 3 SC justices who overturned Roe v Wade, despite it not being exactly what most voters would have wanted.

Biden being as unpopular as Hillary in 2016 could lead to another EC win for Trump and we may find ourselves once again in a situation where the GOP can again use their power within the system we have to pass restrictions that people wouldn't enact if they actually had the means to vote upon them.


tl'dr - in 2016 democrats being unpopular and the system being slanted towards the GOP made it so they didn't need to compromise or do what the voters wanted and the same could happen in 2024

I'm speaking more about perception of the GOP's actions rather than the intention of their actions. Everyone with a brain knows that the Republican Party is insincere in regards to Abortion. When Roe v Wade was established, they claimed the classic "states rights" argument. Now, we are seeing the states exercising their rights and now they're shifting to "well, viability is just too extreme!" and calling on governing officials to ignore the mandate of the people.

More recently, like in Virginia, the GOP governor is feeling the sands shifting below his feet and offered up this 15 week compromise. But it just doesn't make sense. It is based on nothing other than hoping to bring back voters who they alienated with their stances previously.

If you think all abortion is murder, then stand on your morals and say it's murder. No abortion. No matter what. Forever.

If you think it's murder after a certain point, then define that point. But this is a shitty position to be in because it's all subjective. When is a fetus considered a full person? At conception? When it has a heart beat? When it can feel pain? When it could survive outside the womb (viability)? Or at first breath?

It's more of a philosophical question than a legal or even medical question and it makes anyone standing on a certain week date controversial, especially if they choose the earliest one (6 weeks), since a lot of women literally don't even know that they're pregnant until right around that time. And, given timing to make a decision and schedule an appointment, you could very easily go past that 6 week mark before you even get a chance to do it.

If you're willing to compromise, then you are showing that you don't actually believe abortion is murder. Because no one would compromise on murder.

You know what I think the dirty little secret behind 15 weeks is? I think Republicans realize that those early week counts are scary to voters because the last thing a voter wants to do is ban abortion after 6 weeks and then their daughter or girlfriend or friend gets unintentionally pregnant and can't terminate it because they found out at 5 weeks (when they missed their period) and couldn't schedule their abortion in time.

I think they chose 15 weeks because they believe that a "responsible adult" will have enough time to schedule their abortion in that time frame so that only the "careless" and "stupid" people will struggle with the 15 week mark. 

It seems to me to be intentionally arbitrary to ease concerns about their true beliefs. And, if given the power to enact their principles, I question if they'd actually stick to 15 weeks or if they'd go right back to their extremist viewpoint.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-08-2023, 03:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Biden being as unpopular as Hillary in 2016

I don't think Hillary's problem was just being unpopular. I think people just legitimately didn't trust her. A difference of indifference versus actively not wanting.

I didn't vote for Trump (Johnsons rise up!    ), but I think I am on record somewhere in OG P&R that I thought Trump would be able to do less damage to our government with his ineptitude than Hillary could with her extensive network of friends and favors. Of course I said that not knowing Trump would get to choose 3 Supreme Court Justices in 4 years. RBG not retiring earlier and not being able to hold on longer really threw that into a whole ordeal.

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 01:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I really struggle to rationalize anti-choice people conceding on 15 weeks.

If they truly, honestly believe that a fetus is a full person who deserves full rights, why would it matter if an abortion occurred at 14 weeks or 16 weeks? it's a person! (in their mind).

The same goes for the exceptions for rape and incest. Why would it matter if a person was created due to a rape or incest? It's a person! (in their mind). 

This is why the GOP's messaging on abortion is not winning elections. It objectively makes no sense. It feels insincere when they say they care about the life of the child because their limits and exceptions don't line up with their words or actions surrounding abortion.

Biden was good friends with the leader of the KKK. He said he changed. We can all adapt and chance, it is how we co-exist best.

[CJD]

(11-08-2023, 04:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Biden was good friends with the leader of the KKK. He said he changed. We can all adapt and chance, it is how we co-exist best.

...What?

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 02:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: What is significant about 15 weeks?

A fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks and feels pain at 20 weeks. IMO, These should be the target discussion points.

Maybe they should be, but the issue in today's far right GOP portion is no abortion for any reason. That has to change and it has to start with GOP nominee whether it is Trump, DeSantis or Haley.

The point is the GOP needs to rally around one voice whether is it 6 weeks, 12 weeks or 15 weeks, otherwise they lose.

The GOP also needs to pass legislation that helps a woman with an unplanned pregnancy financially, spiritually and offer them good alternatives to either keep the baby or put the baby up for adoption. This is the right thing to do regardless of party.

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 02:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: P0135809 won't commit to anything or any limit.

He once said women getting abortions should be punished.  And he'll change that position again when someone tried to get him have an actual position on something.

Some states want to ban women from going to other states to get an abortion.  

If so, I don't agree. A woman should be able to cross state lines to get an abortion.

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 04:57 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: ...What?

Robert Byrd, he spoke at his funeral. Look it up.

[CJD]

(11-08-2023, 05:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Robert Byrd, he spoke at his funeral. Look it up.

Sure.
What is the relevance?

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2023, 04:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm speaking more about perception of the GOP's actions rather than the intention of their actions. Everyone with a brain knows that the Republican Party is insincere in regards to Abortion. When Roe v Wade was established, they claimed the classic "states rights" argument. Now, we are seeing the states exercising their rights and now they're shifting to "well, viability is just too extreme!" and calling on governing officials to ignore the mandate of the people.

More recently, like in Virginia, the GOP governor is feeling the sands shifting below his feet and offered up this 15 week compromise. But it just doesn't make sense. It is based on nothing other than hoping to bring back voters who they alienated with their stances previously.

If you think all abortion is murder, then stand on your morals and say it's murder. No abortion. No matter what. Forever.

If you think it's murder after a certain point, then define that point. But this is a shitty position to be in because it's all subjective. When is a fetus considered a full person? At conception? When it has a heart beat? When it can feel pain? When it could survive outside the womb (viability)? Or at first breath?

It's more of a philosophical question than a legal or even medical question and it makes anyone standing on a certain week date controversial, especially if they choose the earliest one (6 weeks), since a lot of women literally don't even know that they're pregnant until right around that time. And, given timing to make a decision and schedule an appointment, you could very easily go past that 6 week mark before you even get a chance to do it.

If you're willing to compromise, then you are showing that you don't actually believe abortion is murder. Because no one would compromise on murder.

You know what I think the dirty little secret behind 15 weeks is? I think Republicans realize that those early week counts are scary to voters because the last thing a voter wants to do is ban abortion after 6 weeks and then their daughter or girlfriend or friend gets unintentionally pregnant and can't terminate it because they found out at 5 weeks (when they missed their period) and couldn't schedule their abortion in time.

I think they chose 15 weeks because they believe that a "responsible adult" will have enough time to schedule their abortion in that time frame so that only the "careless" and "stupid" people will struggle with the 15 week mark. 

It seems to me to be intentionally arbitrary to ease concerns about their true beliefs. And, if given the power to enact their principles, I question if they'd actually stick to 15 weeks or if they'd go right back to their extremist viewpoint.

I think you are afraid people revolve. Yet, you voted for Biden who like Clinton voted for laws to put black men behind bars. Biden said he evolved and you believed him. Hell black men believed him. I am not so sure black men still trust Joe Biden changed. He has dragged them down in the mud again financially.