(02-08-2024, 02:38 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Oh you think that's bad - I once got clocked doing 80 in a 55. Let off with a warning.
Maybe I am above the law.
Then I remember the time I got arrested because I called the cops on some dude who flashed his dick at me and my friends when we were 11 years old walking to school. They said I was truant, which was technically true. Waited 35 minutes for the police to show up, making me truant.
No joke. I got a ticket for doing 30 in a 25 once.
Nobody ever believes me. Thinks the cop gave me a break on speed. I was honest to God doing 30 in a 25 and got a ticket.
The report for Biden who was giving an easy off ramp is starting to trickle out. I have heard during his interview he could not recall his VP days, it true that is 8 years lost for the POTUS.
The report shows the world was was obvious to any one who looked at Biden's mental acumen, he is losing it literally in front of our eyes, a huge reason why he can't do a speech without a teleprompter. Trump came out today, delivered a speech (CNN and others cut away showing their bias) off the cuff, probably 15 minutes, then answered questions, not prepared questions where he looked at an index card of people his handlers gave hime to call on with his answer in big letters.
I wonder why we aren't seeing much about the discussion in Hur's report about how there were "serious aggravating facts" that were key differences between the Biden and Trump situations.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(02-08-2024, 09:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wonder why we aren't seeing much about the discussion in Hur's report about how there were "serious aggravating facts" that were key differences between the Biden and Trump situations.
This post by you did not age well. Biden felt compelled to skip his nightly ice cream social to a disastrous press conference.
The good news for Trump is if he goes to trial in Florida on document case, his legal team will be able to subpoena Hur to testify. Trump needs 1 juror that is all to avoid prosecution. I would think Hur's testimony would sink Smith's case. Hur admitted hewas guity, but same DOJ prosecuting Trump did not prosecute Biden.
Also, look soon for Hur to be subpoenaed to explain his report to Congress. This report is going to get legs all the way to November, unless Biden resigns and puts Harris in charge.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(02-09-2024, 02:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This post by you did not age well. Biden felt compelled to skip his nightly ice cream social to a disastrous press conference.
The good news for Trump is if he goes to trial in Florida on document case, his legal team will be able to subpoena Hur to testify. Trump needs 1 juror that is all to avoid prosecution. I would think Hur's testimony would sink Smith's case. Hur admitted hewas guity, but same DOJ prosecuting Trump did not prosecute Biden.
Also, look soon for Hur to be subpoenaed to explain his report to Congress. This report is going to get legs all the way to November, unless Biden resigns and puts Harris in charge.
Hur has no evidence to give in the Trump case but even if he did, Trump is being charged for his attempts to keep the documents from legal authorities after they were subpoenaed, not for taking them in the first place. A fact that Mr Hur took pains to point out in his report
It is amazing, the Biden ghost writer destroyed classified documents, but he also will not be charged. How is this not obstruction and also charges for obtaining stolen classified documents for the ghostwriter.
Simple, 2 system of justice on display from our DOJ once again. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-ghostwriter-escapes-special-counsel-charges-despite-deleting-evidence Biden ghostwriter escapes special counsel charges despite deleting evidence
The audio files were related to the work on Biden's memoir 'Promise Me, Dad'
President Biden's ghostwriter will not face charges despite deleting evidence of the sharing of classified material during the investigation.
Mark Zwonitzer — who collaborated with Biden on his memoir "Promise Me, Dad" — erased audio files in his possession that contained "significant evidentiary value," according to a report published by Special Counsel Robert Hur.
Zwonitzer admitted to the FBI that he "was aware that there was an investigation" when he deleted the evidence.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
Hur has no evidence to give in the Trump case but even if he did, Trump is being charged for his attempts to keep the documents from legal authorities after they were subpoenaed, not for taking them in the first place. A fact that Mr Hur took pains to point out in his report
Hur placed himself on the witness list by referencing Donald Trump in his report, making the entire report available at a Donald Trump trial. The DOJ has an obligation to be consistent, in this case they said Biden was guilty, yet will not prosecute due his poor mental state.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
Now, the reason you're asking this question is obvious. You're trying to make it seem like both Trump and Biden did the same thing, so it's hypocritical to charge Trump with his mishandling of documents and not Biden.
But the situations are not similar.
Biden was found to have mishandled and improperly stored classified documents.
When the government brought this to his attention and requested them back, he complied.
Trump was found to have mishandled and improperly stored classified documents.
When the government brought this to his attention and requested them back, he lied, tried to deceive the government and did his best to retain possession of these documents. Even going so far as to say in public that they're his documents, so why would he give them back.
This is what is called "Willful retention," and it is what Trump is being charged with.
Of the 37 counts, 31 are "retaining and failing to deliver national defense documents under the Espionage Act"
5 counts are, "conspiracy to obstruct justice and withholding documents and records."
And the final count is for making false statements.
If he had done what Biden did and complied with the request to return the documents once they were found in his possession, he would not have been charged with any of these 37 counts.
To make it an analogy, both Biden and Trump were speeding. They were both breaking the law.
When the cops turned on their lights and pursued him, Biden pulled off to the side of the road, willfully presented his driver's license, registration and proof of insurance. He apologized to the officers (and likely told them he didn't intend to be speeding, he just misremembered the speed limit), and they let him off with a warning as a first time offense.
When the cops turned on their lights and pursued Trump, he sped up, tried to dip and dodge through alley ways and through red traffic lights, probably almost ran over a few people. When he was finally cornered in a dead end, he got out of his car and attempted to jump the wall, before the police caught him and pulled him down and arrested him. In his pre-trail hearing, he went on a long rant about how he's a sovereign citizen and he does not recognize the authority of posted speed limit signs. The roads belong to him and he is not subject to the tyrants that call themselves police officers.
Hopefully, this makes it clear the difference between the two cases.
(02-09-2024, 04:21 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Simple answer, yes, most likely.
Now, the reason you're asking this question is obvious. You're trying to make it seem like both Trump and Biden did the same thing, so it's hypocritical to charge Trump with his mishandling of documents and not Biden.
But the situations are not similar.
Biden was found to have mishandled and improperly stored classified documents.
When the government brought this to his attention and requested them back, he complied.
Trump was found to have mishandled and improperly stored classified documents.
When the government brought this to his attention and requested them back, he lied, tried to deceive the government and did his best to retain possession of these documents. Even going so far as to say in public that they're his documents, so why would he give them back.
This is what is called "Willful retention," and it is what Trump is being charged with.
Of the 37 counts, 31 are "retaining and failing to deliver national defense documents under the Espionage Act"
5 counts are, "conspiracy to obstruct justice and withholding documents and records."
And the final count is for making false statements.
If he had done what Biden did and complied with the request to return the documents once they were found in his possession, he would not have been charged with any of these 37 counts.
To make it an analogy, both Biden and Trump were speeding. They were both breaking the law.
When the cops turned on their lights and pursued him, Biden pulled off to the side of the road, willfully presented his driver's license, registration and proof of insurance. He apologized to the officers (and likely told them he didn't intend to be speeding, he just misremembered the speed limit), and they let him off with a warning as a first time offense.
When the cops turned on their lights and pursued Trump, he sped up, tried to dip and dodge through alley ways and through red traffic lights, probably almost ran over a few people. When he was finally cornered in a dead end, he got out of his car and attempted to jump the wall, before the police caught him and pulled him down and arrested him. In his pre-trail hearing, he went on a long rant about how he's a sovereign citizen and he does not recognize the authority of posted speed limit signs. The roads belong to him and he is not subject to the tyrants that call themselves police officers.
Hopefully, this makes it clear the difference between the two cases.
What is clear is when I et pulled over speeding, i do not get a pass for not trying to allude te police. What is clear is a US senator stole classified documents from the SCIF and then kept them for decades in unopened boxes in his garage allowing access to a son and his business associates who is has been indicted and is under investigation for influence peddling.
We also have no idea if Biden or anyone used the classified information for personal gain. We also have no idea if anyone (his lawyers) went through the documents and removed anything. He was not raided like Trump and associates. One was the POTUS and has the rights under the President's act to keep documents, one was a senator with no rights to have classified documents in his possession for a day, he had them for decades. Biden was a VP when he kept some of those document, again he has no authority nor did Mile Pence to have the documents in the first place. Justice was consistent with the VP portion and no charges.
Sadly, they were consistent when applying the law to a Democrat. Hillary Clinton had classified documents on a private server, then used bleach bit and hammers to destroy the evidence which is blatant obstruction of justice. Biden willfully had classified documents from when he was a senator in unsecure opened boxes, yet no charges.
This decision by Hur to not prosecute only throws a magnifying glass on the 2 tier justice system, a political battle Trump is winning.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(02-09-2024, 05:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: What is clear is when I et pulled over speeding, i do not get a pass for not trying to allude te police. What is clear is a US senator stole classified documents from the SCIF and then kept them for decades in unopened boxes in his garage allowing access to a son and his business associates who is has been indicted and is under investigation for influence peddling.
We also have no idea if Biden or anyone used the classified information for personal gain. We also have no idea if anyone (his lawyers) went through the documents and removed anything. He was not raided like Trump and associates. One was the POTUS and has the rights under the President's act to keep documents, one was a senator with no rights to have classified documents in his possession for a day, he had them for decades. Biden was a VP when he kept some of those document, again he has no authority nor did Mile Pence to have the documents in the first place. Justice was consistent with the VP portion and no charges.
Sadly, they were consistent when applying the law to a Democrat. Hillary Clinton had classified documents on a private server, then used bleach bit and hammers to destroy the evidence which is blatant obstruction of justice. Biden willfully had classified documents from when he was a senator in unsecure opened boxes, yet no charges.
This decision by Hur to not prosecute only throws a magnifying glass on the 2 tier justice system, a political battle Trump is winning.
But you understand it happens, right? I mean, getting a warning from the police is a fairly common occurrence. Especially if you're compliant or a little bit personable/friendly. There's an entire meme about how women cry to get out of tickets.
I was pulled over for changing lanes too closely in front of the car I was passing while speeding (7 mph over). He gave me a warning because I had never been pulled over before (we also had a conversation about how driving like that was common in San Juan, Puerto Rico where I had been working for the last 20 weeks and I just got used to it, so I apologized. He laughed and said yea, he's been to San Juan and he found it surprising how close they change lanes there too. Being personable has its advantages.)
As far as the rest of your response...all you're saying is how much we don't know. How would you like them to prosecute Biden on things we don't know? You're basically expecting the DOJ to prove a negative, which no sane attorney would ever attempt.
You keep talking about a 2 tier justice system, but I don't think you understand what that phrase means. The tiers cannot be "Trump" and "everyone else." That's not a 2 tier justice system.
A 2 tier justice system would be, say, if rich people were not prosecuted for the same crimes that poor people are.
Or if black people were charged more severely than white people for the same crimes.
If you were talking about THOSE 2 tier justice systems, I'd agree with you.
But a Trump vs the world 2 tier justice system? Oh please. Talk about swallowing Trump's BS hook, line and sinker.
Also
Quote:One was the POTUS and has the rights under the President's act to keep documents,
That's a trump line that's been disproven over and over again. The Presidential Records Act does not say Presidents get to keep confidential documents after they leave office. It merely gives them the responsibility of managing their own documents while in office and how to separate out their personal (read: not confidential) documents from the documents that must be returned to NARA (read: confidential documents).
Quote:The Presidential Records Act (PRA) changed the legal status of Presidential and Vice Presidential materials. Under the PRA, the official records of the President and his staff are owned by the United States, not by the President.
The Archivist is required to take custody of these records when the President leaves office, and to maintain them in a Federal depository.
(02-07-2024, 10:46 PM)pally Wrote: Luvnit, chooses to ignore the fact that Trump has never been charged with taking the documents, even though he did so deliberately, unlike others where it was inadvertent. Trump is being charged with obstruction by refusing to return them, going out of his way to hide them from investigators, and lying. In other words...he got into trouble because he thought he was above the law which seems to be an over riding fact in his life
That's not all of it. He held battleplans for invading other countries and nuclear weapons capabilities, NONE of that is the property of an ex-official that is no longer in office.
If Luvinit actually believes Fox News, here's Bill Barr with Trey Gowdy on Fox News explaining that Trump screwed up and did this to himself. It starts around 2;30 in the clip and goes to about 4;30 in two different parts. ''They're official records, they're not his personal records. Battleplans for an attack on another country or defense documents about our capabilities ARE IN NO UNIVERSE Donald J Trump's personal documents.''
I also love how Elise Stefanik talks about her comments on the house floor on January 6th and later this web host shows a pic of her cowering on the actual floor while hiding from the future J6 ''hostages''. Collins should have asked her ''Were you full of shit then or are you full of shit now because these are two completely different stances?''. She should have pressed her with ''Why didn't you pick yourself up off of the floor to go out of the house chamber to protect these poor tourists from being abducted and held hostage by the overbearing DOJ?''
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