Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries

[hollodero]

(01-16-2018, 03:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The most frustrating this about this fiasco, to me anyway, is that it came during a meeting in which Congressional leadership was presenting a bi-partisan solution to all of this. This is a fact lost in all of this, that Democrats and Republicans compromised on a piece of legislation, and Trump blew it up during this meeting. This legislation could have avoided a government shutdown, so when it happens, it hangs 100% around the neck of Trump.

After he said for even me to hear "I will sign everything you come up with" and that he would take the heat for it, because taking the heat is his thing and all.

-- Can I ask you and others what you now wish for? A shutdown after all?

[GMDino]

(01-16-2018, 03:29 PM)hollodero Wrote: After he said for even me to hear "I will sign everything you come up with" and that he would take the heat for it, because taking the heat is his thing and all.

-- Can I ask you and others what you now wish for? A shutdown after all?

Well if they shut down he can golf more.  

[StLucieBengal]

(01-16-2018, 03:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The most frustrating this about this fiasco, to me anyway, is that it came during a meeting in which Congressional leadership was presenting a bi-partisan solution to all of this. This is a fact lost in all of this, that Democrats and Republicans compromised on a piece of legislation, and Trump blew it up during this meeting. This legislation could have avoided a government shutdown, so when it happens, it hangs 100% around the neck of Trump.

I always want a gov shutdown. They should just make that permanent.

But this is Durbin and the dems trying to guilt trump into a clean DACA bill. They are wasting everyone’s time.

[hollodero]

(01-16-2018, 03:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I always want a gov shutdown.   They should just make that permanent.  

But who's going to deport all these illegals then?

[StLucieBengal]

(01-16-2018, 03:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: But who's going to deport all these illegals then?

ICE doesn’t stop during a gov shutdown. We will be fine

[hollodero]

(01-16-2018, 03:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: ICE doesn’t stop during a gov shutdown.  We will be fine

Well, if it's a permanent one... at some point they will want to get paid.

[Belsnickel]

(01-16-2018, 03:29 PM)hollodero Wrote: After he said for even me to hear "I will sign everything you come up with" and that he would take the heat for it, because taking the heat is his thing and all.

-- Can I ask you and others what you now wish for? A shutdown after all?

I never hope for a shutdown, because the economy of my state takes a huge hit when there is one. We have families that lose income, then that affects business owners, it affects the state's revenue, and a whole host of things. Virginia and Maryland are two states that are impacted in a major way when this sort of thing happens.

(01-16-2018, 03:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I always want a gov shutdown. They should just make that permanent.

But this is Durbin and the dems trying to guilt trump into a clean DACA bill. They are wasting everyone’s time.

So a bi-partisan bill that Trump rejected is just Durbin and the Dems, eh? Oh well, warped perceptions are expected when someone is not concerned about the negative impacts of something like a government shutdown. The joys of faux-libertarianism.

(01-16-2018, 03:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: ICE doesn’t stop during a gov shutdown. We will be fine

The deportation processing does, especially for non-criminal situations. That isn't priority enough to continue during a shutdown, it's not essential.

[hollodero]

(01-16-2018, 04:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I never hope for a shutdown, because the economy of my state takes a huge hit when there is one. We have families that lose income, then that affects business owners, it affects the state's revenue, and a whole host of things. Virginia and Maryland are two states that are impacted in a major way when this sort of thing happens.

So if Trump/Kelly/Miller make funding for a wall a conditio sine qua non, would you be in favour to put 10 billions away for that to avoid a shutdown and "rescue" DACA recipients?

[Dill]

(01-15-2018, 08:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I didn’t need art history.  Irrelevant.  

Physical Education  was the program I was under at the time.

If you wanted to receive a college degree, not a vocational certificate, then you needed to complete your gen ed requirement--even if you were in a major that was not intellectually demanding.

But you, as a student, were not in a position to determine what you "need."  If students got to decide what they needed, standards would drop off a cliff.  Might as well let them grade themselves too.

In any case, I am sure that you had a range of options to choose from--6-9 humanities courses any two of which would satisfy, similar opitions for social sciences, etc. That course on 20th century European history which you still desparately need would have substituted for your art history, unless that fulfilled a fine arts requirement. What if you'd taken an introduction to macroeconomics or international relations?

Did you actually get your degree and teach anywhere?

[BmorePat87]

(01-16-2018, 04:37 PM)Dill Wrote: If you wanted to receive a college degree, not a vocational certificate, then you needed to complete your gen ed requirement--even if you were in a major that was not intellectually demanding.

But you, as a student, were not in a position to determine what you "need."  If students got to decide what they needed, standards would drop off a cliff.  Might as well let them grade themselves too.

In any case, I am sure that you had a range of options to choose from--6-9 humanities courses any two of which would satisfy, similar opitions for social sciences, etc. That course on 20th century European history which you still desparately need would have substituted for your art history, unless that fulfilled a fine arts requirement. What if you'd taken an introduction to macroeconomics or international relations?

Did you actually get your degree and teach anywhere?

Can't get a bachelor of arts degree without taking classes in all of the liberal arts. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-16-2018, 04:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: So if Trump/Kelly/Miller make funding for a wall a conditio sine qua non, would you be in favour to put 10 billions away for that to avoid a shutdown and "rescue" DACA recipients?

Depends. I'm not one of the policy makers, and I don't have any of the analysis in front of me on this, but the details of how the money would be spent, how it would be paid for, and an analysis showing the benefits of the funds would have to be there. I'm a huge proponent of evidence based policy decisions. As of right now, I have not seen evidence that the money they are talking about for "the wall" would be efficient or effective, and so it is bad policy as far as I am concerned. Given the recent tax bill has caused our financial outlook to become worse, I am not inclined to go for that, it's not a compromise I could get behind.

[Dill]

hollodero
After he said for even me to hear "I will sign everything you come up with" and that he would take the heat for it, because taking the heat is his thing and all.

-- Can I ask you and others what you now wish for? A shutdown after all?

Undecided. It may be that the US needs to hit rock bottom before we can create a block of responsible voters large enough to set the country back on track.  Let Republican policies take hold while they control congress and the presidency, so there can be no weaseling and shifting of blame, and an end to blaming immigrants for wage stagnation. Let it be clear how tax cuts for the rich lead to cuts in medicare and other health services. See how stacking the courts with conservatives protects corporations and hurts labor.  Recognize how white anger and identity issues and abortion divert attention from the expanding wealth gap.

It would take a decade or more to recover, but thereafter we might be good for a generation or two, until the social amnesia reaches critical mass again.

I know Bels is all worried about how a shutdown would affect innocent people in MD and VA, but a lot of those affected are also people who have been voting Republican for decades and calling dysfunctional government "good."  This is the price we pay for voting into office people who think government is the enemy.  Maybe it is time to bite the bullet.

[*bfine32*]

(01-16-2018, 03:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The most frustrating this about this fiasco, to me anyway, is that it came during a meeting in which Congressional leadership was presenting a bi-partisan solution to all of this. This is a fact lost in all of this, that Democrats and Republicans compromised on a piece of legislation, and Trump blew it up during this meeting. This legislation could have avoided a government shutdown, so when it happens, it hangs 100% around the neck of Trump.

The most frustrating thing to me is that Durbin is acting like a little bytch. These types of meetings are behind closed doors for a reason. He wants to come out of the meeting with the intention of painting Trump a racist, so he brings up details (whether he said them or not) that have absolutely nothing to do with a Federal Budget. 

Durbin's like the kid the teacher used to pick to take names of those talking while she/he was out of class. And of course I disagree with the assertion that a shutdown is 100% on Trump and unfortunately for the Dems I'm sure many citizens will see it in a similar light. 

[StLucieBengal]

(01-16-2018, 04:37 PM)Dill Wrote: If you wanted to receive a college degree, not a vocational certificate, then you needed to complete your gen ed requirement--even if you were in a major that was not intellectually demanding.

But you, as a student, were not in a position to determine what you "need."  If students got to decide what they needed, standards would drop off a cliff.  Might as well let them grade themselves too.

In any case, I am sure that you had a range of options to choose from--6-9 humanities courses any two of which would satisfy, similar opitions for social sciences, etc. That course on 20th century European history which you still desparately need would have substituted for your art history, unless that fulfilled a fine arts requirement. What if you'd taken an introduction to macroeconomics or international relations?

Did you actually get your degree and teach anywhere?

Yes I have a teaching license.

I didn’t get choices the athletic department did all that for us. I remember complaining about it and it was the only class that would fit in my schedule. We had only limited openings for schedules.

Gen Ed’s were a waste. I can appreciate all that fruitcake stuff but they need to cut in by half.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-16-2018, 05:00 PM)Dill Wrote: hollodero
After he said for even me to hear "I will sign everything you come up with" and that he would take the heat for it, because taking the heat is his thing and all.

-- Can I ask you and others what you now wish for? A shutdown after all?

Undecided. It may be that the US needs to hit rock bottom before we can create a block of responsible voters large enough to set the country back on track.  Let Republican policies take hold while they control congress and the presidency, so there can be no weaseling and shifting of blame, and an end to blaming immigrants for wage stagnation. Let it be clear how tax cuts for the rich lead to cuts in medicare and other health services. See how stacking the courts with conservatives protects corporations and hurts labor.  Recognize how white anger and identity issues and abortion divert attention from the expanding wealth gap.

It would take a decade or more to recover, but thereafter we might be good for a generation or two, until the social amnesia reaches critical mass again.

I know Bels is all worried about how a shutdown would affect innocent people in MD and VA, but a lot of those affected are also people who have been voting Republican for decades and calling dysfunctional government "good."  This is the price we pay for voting into office people who think government is the enemy.  Maybe it is time to bite the bullet.

Ummm hate to break this to you but government is the enemy

[GMDino]

(01-16-2018, 05:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The most frustrating thing to me is that Durbin is acting like a little bytch. These types of meetings are behind closed doors for a reason. He wants to come out of the meeting with the intention of painting Trump a racist, so he brings up details (whether he said them or not) that have absolutely nothing to do with a Federal Budget. 

Durbin's like the kid the teacher used to pick to take names of those talking while she/he was out of class. And of course I disagree with the assertion that a shutdown is 100% on Trump and unfortunately for the Dems I'm sure many citizens will see it in a similar light. 

I thought you liked rules and laws and such?

[Dill]

(01-16-2018, 05:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The most frustrating thing to me is that Durbin is acting like a little bytch. These types of meetings are behind closed doors for a reason. He wants to come out of the meeting with the intention of painting Trump a racist, so he brings up details (whether he said them or not) that have absolutely nothing to do with a Federal Budget. 

Durbin's like the kid the teacher used to pick to take names of those talking while she/he was out of class. And of course I disagree with the assertion that a shutdown is 100% on Trump and unfortunately for the Dems I'm sure many citizens will see it in a similar light.

LOL "painting Trump a racist."  Messengers are clearly the problem. If only we could shoot them.

Dems just don't get it--Trump's racism has NOTHING to do with his immigration policy.  At least, certain citizens will see it in that light.

Durbin's like the kid who stands up to the racist bully on the playground.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-16-2018, 11:49 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL "painting Trump a racist."  Messengers are clearly the problem. If only we could shoot them.

Dems just don't get it--Trump's racism has NOTHING to do with his immigration policy.  At least, certain citizens will see it in that light.

Durbin's like the kid who stands up to the racist bully on the playground.

Even when he has a history of lies? He is lied about what was said in meetings before

[GMDino]

(01-16-2018, 11:49 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL "painting Trump a racist."  Messengers are clearly the problem. If only we could shoot them.

Dems just don't get it--Trump's racism has NOTHING to do with his immigration policy.  At least, certain citizens will see it in that light.

Durbin's like the kid who stands up to the racist bully on the playground.

But bullies are good for kids. 

[Dill]

(01-16-2018, 11:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Even when he has a history of lies?   He is lied about what was said in meetings before

Trump supporters cannot suddenly hold forth honesty and integrity as standards of political behavior, while daily exempting Trump therefrom.

In this case, we have a great deal of corroborating evidence, including the testimony of conservative Republican Lindsay Graham, who has not totally lost his moral compass. The coordinated obfuscation-sans-direct-denial of other Republicans is another clue.

Trump is the king of all birthers and thinks there are "good people" among white nationalists. To defend him in this matter is to empower them.