Trump indicted...again

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't understand how anyone could see this as anything but a horrible negative.  A sitting POTUS's DOJ indicts his main political opponent just before campaign season.  The optics on this are abysmal and are only going to solidly reinforce for tens of millions of Americans that the system is truly corrupt.  There's a reason no one really went after Nixon.  Nixon's crimes were almost certainly worse than Trump's, if for no other reason than Nixon was light years more intelligent.  This will not end well.

This is a tremendously bad take IMHO.

Trump's "campaign season" started the day he was inaugurated in 2017.  The current campaign system started when Biden was inaugurated in 2021.

When would be a "good" time to pursue criminal activities?  After he dies?

If we can't hold EVERYONE responsible for their actions then why even bother with laws?

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 11:19 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: HRC was guilty of crimes. Biden also is guilty of crimes because he had stored classified documents when a senator. Neither Biden or HRC had the right to any documents, they stole them. Yet, no problem, they are Democrats and the deep state FBI and  CIA and DOJ are all corrupt.

Trump lied about having them, lied and said he returned them all, lied about it all.

He made his bed and now he has to lie in it.  

They did the investigations into Hillary and Biden.  The gop had years to find something on Clinton when they had control and still nothing.  

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't understand how anyone could see this as anything but a horrible negative.  A sitting POTUS's DOJ indicts his main political opponent just before campaign season.  The optics on this are abysmal and are only going to solidly reinforce for tens of millions of Americans that the system is truly corrupt.  There's a reason no one really went after Nixon.  Nixon's crimes were almost certainly worse than Trump's, if for no other reason than Nixon was light years more intelligent.  This will not end well.

But Nixon resigned.  It would have been interesting to see what would have shaken out had Agnew and Nixon just stayed the course and then vowed to run again in 76 or even 80.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: This is a tremendously bad take IMHO.

I'm not at all shocked that's your position.

Quote:Trump's "campaign season" started the day he was inaugurated in 2017.  The current campaign system started when Biden was inaugurated in 2021.

When would be a "good" time to pursue criminal activities?  After he dies?

Just like Nixon, the answer is never.  

Quote:If we can't hold EVERYONE responsible for their actions then why even bother with laws?

I actually put more stock in your intelligence than this.  You can't possibly see the tremendous fallout to our political system and national cohesiveness to going after a former POTUS criminally?  I get that Trump hurt a lot of people's feelings and those people are now overjoyed at this occurrence.  But anyone celebrating this has zero comprehension of the long term consequences.  This is bad.  I honestly put very little stock in the idea of our nation Balkanizing in the past.  This is the first time I think it's becoming a real possibility.

As an aside, if there's a former POTUS that deserves to rot in prison it's W.  But now the left sees him as some lovable buffoon.  Maybe if he had made some mean Tweets they'd have gone after him too.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: But Nixon resigned.  It would have been interesting to see what would have shaken out had Agnew and Nixon just stayed the course and then vowed to run again in 76 or even 80.

Again, Nixon was more intelligent and knew that the price of getting off was retreating from the public square in that regard.  Your question is interesting in the reverse, would the DOJ be going after Trump if he had no intention of running again?  

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-09-2023, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't understand how anyone could see this as anything but a horrible negative.  A sitting POTUS's DOJ indicts his main political opponent just before campaign season.  The optics on this are abysmal and are only going to solidly reinforce for tens of millions of Americans that the system is truly corrupt.  There's a reason no one really went after Nixon.  Nixon's crimes were almost certainly worse than Trump's, if for no other reason than Nixon was light years more intelligent.  This will not end well.

To the contrary, it's a symbol of justice. Noone is above the law. And if you commited all this with a public responsability it should be multiplied by two. 

It's a strong message for those who abuse their position of power. 

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 11:27 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm not at all shocked that's your position.



Just like Nixon, the answer is never.  


I actually put more stock in your intelligence than this.  You can't possibly see the tremendous fallout to our political system and national cohesiveness to going after a former POTUS criminally?  I get that Trump hurt a lot of people's feelings and those people are now overjoyed at this occurrence.  But anyone celebrating this has zero comprehension of the long term consequences.  This is bad.  I honestly put very little stock in the idea of our nation Balkanizing in the past.  This is the first time I think it's becoming a real possibility.

As an aside, if there's a former POTUS that deserves to rot in prison it's W.  But now the left sees him as some lovable buffoon.  Maybe if he had made some mean Tweets they'd have gone after him too.

It's a bad take, IMHO, because you of all people should be FOR possible crimes being investigated and prosecuted if the evidence is there.

We've never had a POTUS like Trump.  A man bereft of any kind of morals or ethics and only caring about himself.  If we have to break norms to make sure someone like that is held responsible for his actions (providing the evidence shows that) that most the country is good with that.

What you are proposing is what Trump is proposing:  never go after him because he won an election once...no matter what he did.

The problem with GW is finding the crime and the proof of it.  I don't like him any more than you do but he's not on tape admitting he did something or going on social media claiming he did it...but it was legal!

This isn't prosecuting Trump for "mean tweets" it is if he broke the law.  Again, something I'd have thought you would hold a little more important than optics.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:29 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: To the contrary, it's a symbol of justice. Noone is above the law.

Respectfully, my friend, this is 100% bullshit. 

Quote:And if you commited all this with a public responsability it should be multiplied by two. 

It's a strong message for those who abuse their position of power. 

No, it's a strong message to not buck the system.  Trump is literally the only POTUS in the past 80+ years, maybe longer, to not only come from completely outside the political machinery, but to also challenge it, albeit in a crude and bombastic fashion.  You are correct about a message being sent, but wholly wrong as to what that message is.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 11:37 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Respectfully, my friend, this is 100% bullshit. 



No, it's a strong message to not buck the system.  Trump is literally the only POTUS in the past 80+ years, maybe longer, to not only come from completely outside the political machinery, but to also challenge it, albeit in a crude and bombastic fashion.  You are correct about a message being sent, but wholly wrong as to what that message is.

One of Trump's selling points was that he was completely saddled with baggage and had a decided lack of morals.  The idea that we needed a "bad guy" to undo all the damage "nice guy" Obama was a big part of the mystique of going rogue at president.

The GOP didn't pick a choirboy when they decided to make non-politician the president, rather they specifically picked a guy who had a history of bending, if not outright breaking the rules to suit himself, and hopefully suit us.  

American voters are like misguided teen girls.  We love our bad boys, but we also want to clutch our pearls when people dare to accuse him of being bad.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: It's a bad take, IMHO, because you of all people should be FOR possible crimes being investigated and prosecuted if the evidence is there.

If it were done equally, then absolutely.  

Quote:We've never had a POTUS like Trump.  A man bereft of any kind of morals or ethics and only caring about himself.  If we have to break norms to make sure someone like that is held responsible for his actions (providing the evidence shows that) that most the country is good with that.

This says more about your personal perceptions than anything else.  But you do raise an interesting point, this is designed to make sure no one like Trump runs again, just not in the way you think.

Quote:What you are proposing is what Trump is proposing:  never go after him because he won an election once...no matter what he did.

Incorrect.  What I am saying is that the cohesiveness and future stability of our nation is far more important than going after Trump, or any former, current or future POTUS.

Quote:The problem with GW is finding the crime and the proof of it.  I don't like him any more than you do but he's not on tape admitting he did something or going on social media claiming he did it...but it was legal!

You really think there isn't evidence of them fabricating evidence to invade Iraq?  Richard Clarke literally testified that this happened in front of Congress.  He stated he was ordered to find a link between 9/11 and Iraq, regardless of whether it existed or not, among other things.

Quote:This isn't prosecuting Trump for "mean tweets" it is if he broke the law.  Again, something I'd have thought you would hold a little more important than optics.

The optics don't matter to me, personally, but they matter a hell of a lot to tens of millions of people.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 11:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Incorrect.  What I am saying is that the cohesiveness and future stability of our nation is far more important than going after Trump, or any former, current or future POTUS.

I assume a lot of people said the cohesiveness and future stability of our nation depended on Trump never winning the presidency, but hell we didn't like Hillary and just had 8 years of a democrat in office and Trump would "settle down once he got in office."  I wouldn't call what happened to our country post 2016 as expected, but I'm not terribly surprised this is happening, either.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:51 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I assume a lot of people said the cohesiveness and future stability of our nation depended on Trump never winning the presidency, but hell we didn't like Hillary and just had 8 years of a democrat in office and Trump would "settle down once he got in office."  I wouldn't call what happened to our country post 2016 as expected, but I'm not terribly surprised this is happening, either.

As much damage as some perceive Trump did, this will dwarf that.  It's earth shatteringly bad and could not happen at worse moment in our recent history.

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 11:44 AM)Nately120 Wrote: One of Trump's selling points was that he was completely saddled with baggage and had a decided lack of morals.  The idea that we needed a "bad guy" to undo all the damage "nice guy" Obama was a big part of the mystique of going rogue at president.

The GOP didn't pick a choirboy when they decided to make non-politician the president, rather they specifically picked a guy who had a history of bending, if not outright breaking the rules to suit himself, and hopefully suit us.  

American voters are like misguided teen girls.  We love our bad boys, but we also want to clutch our pearls when people dare to accuse him of being bad.

Correction...REPUBLICANS are like misguided teen girls.  They love bad boys, but also want to clutch their pearls when people dare to accuse him of being bad.

They are rallying around Trump even as we speak.  Even the people running against him.

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-09-2023, 11:37 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Respectfully, my friend, this is 100% bullshit. 



No, it's a strong message to not buck the system.  Trump is literally the only POTUS in the past 80+ years, maybe longer, to not only come from completely outside the political machinery, but to also challenge it, albeit in a crude and bombastic fashion.  You are correct about a message being sent, but wholly wrong as to what that message is.

Well, it showed. 

Being a lawmaker is a full time job and being a reality show star doesn't help much to the task. 

I don't really get why the 'LAW AND ORDER' crew is somehow now screaming it's unfair. Because it isn't. 

[GMDino]

(06-09-2023, 11:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If it were done equally, then absolutely.  



This says more about your personal perceptions than anything else.  But you do raise an interesting point, this is designed to make sure no one like Trump runs again, just not in the way you think.



Incorrect.  What I am saying is that the cohesiveness and future stability of our nation is far more important than going after Trump, or any former, current or future POTUS.



You really think there isn't evidence of them fabricating evidence to invade Iraq?  Richard Clarke literally testified that this happened in front of Congress.  He stated he was ordered to find a link between 9/11 and Iraq, regardless of whether it existed or not, among other things.


The optics don't matter to me, personally, but they matter a hell of a lot to tens of millions of people.

This "equally" argument falls flat when there has been nothing else like this save Nixon.  And Ford should have let him be prosecuted.  Then, maybe, we wouldn't have the gnashing of the teeth and the beating of the breast about Trump.

This is just another talking point about the latest thing that will end our nation...and oddly its always when a republican his held accountable for something.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 11:53 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As much damage as some perceive Trump did, this will dwarf that.  It's earth shatteringly bad and could not happen at worse moment in our recent history.

And he could damn well be president again.

[Arturo Bandini]

BTW, I'm here for long enough to remember that somehow all these people who claim for mercy in the name of who knows who were the same one asking for Hillary to be investigated and locked up in 2016.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 12:03 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: BTW, I'm here for long enough to remember that somehow all these people who claim for mercy in the name of who knows who were the same one asking for Hillary to be investigated and locked up in 2016.

None of this mess would happen if we didn't bother having elections and just let Trump be our version of Putin.  He only had to do all this illegal stuff because we made him run for president a second time. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 11:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: This "equally" argument falls flat when there has been nothing else like this save Nixon.  And Ford should have let him be prosecuted.  Then, maybe, we wouldn't have the gnashing of the teeth and the beating of the breast about Trump.

Why do you think he didn't?

Quote:This is just another talking point about the latest thing that will end our nation...and oddly its always when a republican his held accountable for something.

Talking point?  What a horrible counter to the point being made.  Ask yourself this.  How many Trump supporters are there?  Really diehard ones.  I think fifty million is easily agreed upon, and it may be many more.  How will they react to this?  Also, to your last point, please provide examples, because I can't think of any.  I doubt you can either or you would have listed them.

(06-09-2023, 12:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And he could damn well be president again.

Wouldn't that be "interesting?"

(06-09-2023, 12:03 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: BTW, I'm here for long enough to remember that somehow all these people who claim for mercy in the name of who knows who were the same one asking for Hillary to be investigated and locked up in 2016.

Indeed?  Name one.  Also, I haven't seen one person asking for mercy here.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wouldn't that be "interesting?"

Technically, yes.  He's either going to win in 2024 and do god knows what on his revenge tour, or he's going to lose again and claim it was rigged again and make himself a candidate for 2028 and spend another 4 years making fun of DeSantis' dick size.  Either way, we're in for interesting times.