Trump indicted...again

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 08:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: JFC. Trump is on tape admitting to his crimes. He is caught red handed and is being prosecuted by a special counsel that is not taking orders from Biden or his administration. But all we hear from supporters is denial and whataboutism, pointing to unverified claims and issues currently under investigation by another special counsel.

It's not a crime that's sexy.  People will make the point that Biden had documents in his garage.  That Hillary wiped her e-mails that were subpoenaed.  That Obama took documents.  The reasons this is different won't matter because the actions are too similar for those who don't care to learn the difference. 

Quote:SSF is right that the perception is the issue because some of these people have their own reality that is far from the facts of the matter.

Indeed, as noted above.

Quote:Whatever happened to the party/president of "law and order?"

There's a perception that the Dems are lawless and don't care about law and order, a perception some of their members have unfortunately done quite a lot to reinforce.  They don't care about crime, except when it benefits them, will be the point made.  It has enough truth to it to make it easily palatable.  

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(06-09-2023, 07:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is all that really needs said and is how any objective and rational person should view this. Charges could be trumped up against just about any politician. 

I'm more concerned about the weaponization of the DOJ by a sitting President against his rival. It feels personal and he's not even pretending to have any integrity. 

Probably because no one with a voice that matters will call him on the shenanigans, and the populace is either too busy staring at TikTok or too blinded by hatred for Trump to care.

Personally, I'd like to see a party not nominate and back a criminal, whose main purpose for running for office is to stay out of prison. So I would like to hear your "objective and rational" theory on how to get criminals out of the political sphere. They tried and tried to get Hillary with Benghazi with 9, 10 or 11 commissions, I lost count. Strange how that need for justice all mysteriously ended once she lost the election so trumping up charges is nothing new in our politics, our previous President was impeached for trying it. 

By reading your post, one could take away from it that this is strictly political or that running for office makes you immune to prosecution for previous, or even ongoing, crimes.

Where do you draw the line on who should be held accountable and who should be given a pass? And please give examples of Biden not even pretending to have integrity when it comes to this investigation. I must have missed his apparently obvious personal influences of the DOJ.

[samhain]

(06-09-2023, 08:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's not a crime that's sexy.  People will make the point that Biden had documents in his garage.  That Hillary wiped her e-mails that were subpoenaed.  That Obama took documents.  The reasons this is different won't matter because the actions are too similar for those who don't care to learn the difference. 



Indeed, as noted above.


There's a perception that the Dems are lawless and don't care about law and order, a perception some of their members have unfortunately done quite a lot to reinforce.  They don't care about crime, except when it benefits them, will be the point made.  It has enough truth to it to make it easily palatable.  

You make sense, but it's really tough to have sympathy for a guy who used "LOCK HER UP" as a chant on the campaign trail.  He and his minions have all sorts of jerk-off fantasies about getting to the Bidens as well, not to mention the Obama birth certificate stupidity.  

If he could have done this to any of his adversaries, he most certainly would have and he'd have gloated about it to the mob the entire time.  Problem is, he's a complete dolt and he doesn't listen to anyone with his best interests in mind.  Even a diminished Biden, the Human Gaffe has infinitely more common sense than this guy.  20 seconds of testimony and it will be over, and no lawyer with a brain will let him open his mouth unless he's forced.

He played a game of rhetorical hardball with his rivals without realizing that they're a lot better at this game than he is or ever will be.  

The party does not need him.  He's bombed 3 straight elections spectacularly.  Hell, I pray that he stays in it and gets the nomination.  The utilitarian move for the GOP is to let him swing for this and get back to being a real party instead of a personality cult.  It's a golden opportunity for them.

[Stewy]

(06-09-2023, 08:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's not a crime that's sexy.  People will make the point that Biden had documents in his garage.  That Hillary wiped her e-mails that were subpoenaed.  That Obama took documents.  The reasons this is different won't matter because the actions are too similar for those who don't care to learn the difference. 



Indeed, as noted above.


There's a perception that the Dems are lawless and don't care about law and order, a perception some of their members have unfortunately done quite a lot to reinforce.  They don't care about crime, except when it benefits them, will be the point made.  It has enough truth to it to make it easily palatable.  

I agree with all you've said, but there are some simple truth's.

---Enough of the country knows what Trump is to have NOT voted for him last time and WILL NOT vote for him again.
---His base may allow him to control the Republican party, but it won't win him the general election, again.
---Repub's need to stop shooting themselves in the foot and walk away from this guy.  He was a cancer in nearly every one of his mid-term endorsements.
---Trump is the Democrats best friend.
---It doesn't matter what his base believes.  Or that they see the differences between this and other situations.  The MAGA sheeple are going to listen to Trump and Trump only.  If the difference was as separate as water vs. dry sand, they'd still believe Trump.  Saying they'll miss the subtleties is irrelevant because they blinded by his Cult of Personality.  Seriously, if Trump had been an adult politician during WW2, Stalin, Hitler, TOGO and Mussolini would have been taking notes on manipulation from Trump.

It's clear from certain people responding on these forums, that they are lost sheep who refuse to see the truth.  The subtleties don't matter.  Only the Cult of Trump.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(06-09-2023, 09:44 PM)samhain Wrote: You make sense, but it's really tough to have sympathy for a guy who used "LOCK HER UP" as a chant on the campaign trail.  He and his minions have all sorts of jerk-off fantasies about getting to the Bidens as well, not to mention the Obama birth certificate stupidity.  

If he could have done this to any of his adversaries, he most certainly would have and he'd have gloated about it to the mob the entire time.  Problem is, he's a complete dolt and he doesn't listen to anyone with his best interests in mind.  Even a diminished Biden, the Human Gaffe has infinitely more common sense than this guy.  20 seconds of testimony and it will be over, and no lawyer with a brain will let him open his mouth unless he's forced.

He played a game of rhetorical hardball with his rivals without realizing that they're a lot better at this game than he is or ever will be.  

The party does not need him.  He's bombed 3 straight elections spectacularly.  Hell, I pray that he stays in it and gets the nomination.  The utilitarian move for the GOP is to let him swing for this and get back to being a real party instead of a personality cult.  It's a golden opportunity for them.

It's quite apparent that SSF hasn't read the indictment b/c he wouldn't be making these specious and spurious arguments that are deeply flawed in logic b/c his premise is flawed.  Whataboutism, straw man, and virtue signaling seem to be prevalent in an attempt to distract from the real issues and those are the heinous acts of Donald Trump committing espionage against his own country.  

SSF as well, as others on the right, need to read the indictment word for word and stop making himself look silly. 

They have Trump on tape saying that Hillary did nothing wrong and the emails were not deleted by her but by her attorney. HRC email that was supposed to be the smoking gun turned out to be her confirming her doctors, beauty, and spa appts.  John Durham even said HRC did nothing wrong.

[samhain]

(06-09-2023, 10:01 PM)Stewy Wrote: I agree with all you've said, but there are some simple truth's.

---Enough of the country knows what Trump is to have NOT voted for him last time and WILL NOT vote for him again.
---His base may allow him to control the Republican party, but it won't win him the general election, again.
---Repub's need to stop shooting themselves in the foot and walk away from this guy.  He was a cancer in nearly every one of his mid-term endorsements.
---Trump is the Democrats best friend.
---It doesn't matter what his base believes.  Or that they see the differences between this and other situations.  The MAGA sheeple are going to listen to Trump and Trump only.  If the difference was as separate as water vs. dry sand, they'd still believe Trump.  Saying they'll miss the subtleties is irrelevant because they blinded by his Cult of Personality.  Seriously, if Trump had been an adult politician during WW2, Stalin, Hitler, TOGO and Mussolini would have been taking notes on manipulation from Trump.

It's clear from certain people responding on these forums, that they are lost sheep who refuse to see the truth.  The subtleties don't matter.  Only the Cult of Trump.

It makes no sense to me from a practical standpoint.  The party surely does not need him.  He's a third rate down-ticket campaigner who helps no one.  Sometimes he doesn't even help himself when he easily could.  There are any number of Trumpy candidates who actually know how governing works that will be more than willing to step into his role as party leader.  His downfall in no way needs to be the downfall of the Party.  In fact, it will probably help.  

I don't think SSF is a personalty cult guy, but others on that side of the spectrum have an illogical and downright detrimental (to themselves) obsession with protecting this literal clown of a human being.  Trump would sell any one of them and their children for a twenty dollar bill and a McDonald's cheeseburger.  Wild.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 09:44 PM)samhain Wrote: You make sense, but it's really tough to have sympathy for a guy who used "LOCK HER UP" as a chant on the campaign trail.  He and his minions have all sorts of jerk-off fantasies about getting to the Bidens as well, not to mention the Obama birth certificate stupidity.

I have zero sympathy for him, especially given the nature of the current indictment.  I have sympathy for us as a nation that Trump and Biden is the best we can do for POTUS nomination.  

Quote:If he could have done this to any of his adversaries, he most certainly would have and he'd have gloated about it to the mob the entire time.  Problem is, he's a complete dolt and he doesn't listen to anyone with his best interests in mind.  Even a diminished Biden, the Human Gaffe has infinitely more common sense than this guy.  20 seconds of testimony and it will be over, and no lawyer with a brain will let him open his mouth unless he's forced.

Or, more accurately, the people handling Biden do.

Quote:He played a game of rhetorical hardball with his rivals without realizing that they're a lot better at this game than he is or ever will be.  

Not only that, but he made it rather easy for them.

Quote:The party does not need him.  He's bombed 3 straight elections spectacularly.  Hell, I pray that he stays in it and gets the nomination.  The utilitarian move for the GOP is to let him swing for this and get back to being a real party instead of a personality cult.  It's a golden opportunity for them.

I completely agree.  They'd be far better off going with DeSantis.  Once he gets his feet under him I think DeSantis would mop the floor with Biden

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 10:03 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: It's quite apparent that SSF hasn't read the indictment b/c he wouldn't be making these specious and spurious arguments that are deeply flawed in logic b/c his premise is flawed.  Whataboutism, straw man, and virtue signaling seem to be prevalent in an attempt to distract from the real issues and those are the heinous acts of Donald Trump committing espionage against his own country.  

SSF as well, as others on the right, need to read the indictment word for word and stop making himself look silly. 

They have Trump on tape saying that Hillary did nothing wrong and the emails were not deleted by her but by her attorney. HRC email that was supposed to be the smoking gun turned out to be her confirming her doctors, beauty, and spa appts.  John Durham even said HRC did nothing wrong.

Tell me you haven't understood a single post I made in this thread without telling me you haven't understood a single post I made in this thread.

(06-09-2023, 10:26 PM)samhain Wrote: It makes no sense to me from a practical standpoint.  The party surely does not need him.  He's a third rate down-ticket campaigner who helps no one.  Sometimes he doesn't even help himself when he easily could.  There are any number of Trumpy candidates who actually know how governing works that will be more than willing to step into his role as party leader.  His downfall in no way needs to be the downfall of the Party.  In fact, it will probably help.  

I don't think SSF is a personalty cult guy, but others on that side of the spectrum have an illogical and downright detrimental (to themselves) obsession with protecting this literal clown of a human being.  Trump would sell any one of them and their children for a twenty dollar bill and a McDonald's cheeseburger.  Wild.

Die hard Trump supporters are as far away from me positionally as some Antifa asshat in Portland.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 10:01 PM)Stewy Wrote: I agree with all you've said, but there are some simple truth's.

---Enough of the country knows what Trump is to have NOT voted for him last time and WILL NOT vote for him again.
---His base may allow him to control the Republican party, but it won't win him the general election, again.

I think this indictment has enough meat on it for you to be likely correct.  I don't know if this is a certainty though.  Especially if the economy is inn bad shape and Ukraine has gone badly by election day.

Quote:---Repub's need to stop shooting themselves in the foot and walk away from this guy.  He was a cancer in nearly every one of his mid-term endorsements.
---Trump is the Democrats best friend.

Agreed.  Oz and Walker gave the Dems two easily winnable seats that they should have lost.  I still can't believe Fetterman won though, dear lord.  Also Keri Lake lost to a woman with the personality and charisma of a hairbrush.

Quote:---It doesn't matter what his base believes.  Or that they see the differences between this and other situations.  The MAGA sheeple are going to listen to Trump and Trump only.  If the difference was as separate as water vs. dry sand, they'd still believe Trump.  Saying they'll miss the subtleties is irrelevant because they blinded by his Cult of Personality.  Seriously, if Trump had been an adult politician during WW2, Stalin, Hitler, TOGO and Mussolini would have been taking notes on manipulation from Trump.

He's interesting in a way no other politician has been.  He peppers in his colorful insults with truisms that people can relate to.  His comments on taking advantage of the tax code, the tax code Hillary and those like her set up for their rich friends to be able to take advantage of, for example.

Quote:It's clear from certain people responding on these forums, that they are lost sheep who refuse to see the truth.  The subtleties don't matter.  Only the Cult of Trump.

This is true, but I see similar behavior from some of our far left posters, and they don't have that one person to latch on to, only a blind adherence to ideology.

[Stewy]

(06-09-2023, 10:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is true, but I see similar behavior from some of our far left posters, and they don't have that one person to latch on to, only a blind adherence to ideology.

We had a lot of agreement here which is nice and not not disagreeing with what you posted above, but in my mind there's a difference between the Cult of AOC and the Cult of Trump.  30% of liberals don't blindly follow AOC, as the MAGA do with Trump.  

I just don't think there are near as many liberal kooks as there are MAGA cultists.  Not that they aren't just a deluded and dangerous.  But numbers matter.

[Stewy]

(06-09-2023, 10:26 PM)samhain Wrote: It makes no sense to me from a practical standpoint.  The party surely does not need him.  He's a third rate down-ticket campaigner who helps no one.  Sometimes he doesn't even help himself when he easily could.  There are any number of Trumpy candidates who actually know how governing works that will be more than willing to step into his role as party leader.  His downfall in no way needs to be the downfall of the Party.  In fact, it will probably help.  

I don't think SSF is a personalty cult guy, but others on that side of the spectrum have an illogical and downright detrimental (to themselves) obsession with protecting this literal clown of a human being.  Trump would sell any one of them and their children for a twenty dollar bill and a McDonald's cheeseburger.  Wild.

The problem with the MAGA Cult is that they are not interested in logic, truth or reality.  They only listen to Trump.  I realize for most educated folks who aren't brainwashed it seems ludicrous that ANYONE couldn't see Trump for what he is, but 30% of the country follows his more than religiously.  If Jesus descended from heaven and called Trump evil, they'd call Jesus a liar and bring out the stakes.  That's the definition of a Cult.

I agree with you and I wasn't speaking of SSF.  His response to me above should tell you he didn't take it that way either.  But Trump definitely has brainwashed MAGA flunkies here, but I won't name their names.....

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-09-2023, 10:50 PM)Stewy Wrote: We had a lot of agreement here which is nice and not not disagreeing with what you posted above, but in my mind there's a difference between the Cult of AOC and the Cult of Trump.  30% of liberals don't blindly follow AOC, as the MAGA do with Trump.  

I just don't think there are near as many liberal kooks as there are MAGA cultists.  Not that they aren't just a deluded and dangerous.  But numbers matter.

You may be right, but I don't think they attach to people, at least not currently as much as a rigid adherence to dogma.  I've found that more conservative leaning people I speak to personally are able to discuss subjects without getting upset.  I've found that to be much less likely with a far leftist.  Of course, the conservative people I talk to aren't deep Maga people either.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2023, 10:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They'd be far better off going with DeSantis.  Once he gets his feet under him I think DeSantis would mop the floor with Biden

I don't think the GOP has a choice.  If they have a chance to willingly choose DeSantis over Trump in 2024 they run the risk of Trump sabotaging the election.  By the time DeSantis gets a crack at the presidency Biden won't be a candidate anymore.  After 2 terms of Biden the country would likely elect any republican the GOP runs, mostly due to the idea that we'd be looking at 16 years of Obama/Biden with 4 years of Trump in there.

But, Trump may still interfere in 2028 if DeSantis runs the democrats could have a much stronger and younger set of candidates from key swing states like Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly, or maybe someone like Wes Moore or Raphael Warnock.  A lot can happen though, but DeSantis would have to reinvent himself if he has to wait until 2028 to run because saying "woke" for the next 5 years might not carry him there.

[samhain]

(06-09-2023, 10:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You may be right, but I don't think they attach to people, at least not currently as much as a rigid adherence to dogma.  I've found that more conservative leaning people I speak to personally are able to discuss subjects without getting upset.  I've found that to be much less likely with a far leftist.  Of course, the conservative people I talk to aren't deep Maga people either.

The last sacred Dem cow was Obama.  He's well out of the game until late in elections when they pry him from whatever rock star party he's hosting at any particular moment.  

The difference between the parties to me is that the Dems would never run a full-on far-left AOC or Bernie-style candidate for president.  They bent over backwards to keep Bernie out of the 2020 race.  It was probably smart, but also probably a bit underhanded.  They pushed Biden over the line because he was vanilla and middle of the road.  Solid strategy, and successful, but again, maybe not super ethical.  

The right is pushing full-crazy out there ever since 2016.  The old standard has no shot vs the firebrands, and the base will accept nothing else.  I won't dispute that there are some crazy leftists out there, but the majority of voting dems, and particularly the ones that swing elections, are centrists.  If the party goes too far left, they lose crucial support, and the DNC generally toes the line.  

[Shake n Blake]

Oof. So the AG (and all agencies involved) appointed by the sitting President go after his political rival at a highly convenient time, and we're to believe there's no shenanigans afoot, because the party of your preference are all men of integrity. I guess.

All I'd ask is for consistency. If these agencies are going to come down hard on Trump over corruption, let's go all out on everyone in DC. What they've unearthed on Trump is likely peanuts in comparison to many others, including the current President.

They're all corrupt. Yet only Trump is being targeted. Just makes me wonder why, and I believe that's a question we all should ask, in the name of fairness, if for nothing else.

[samhain]

(06-09-2023, 11:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Oof. So the AG (and all agencies involved) appointed by the sitting President go after his political rival at a highly convenient time, and we're to believe there's no shenanigans afoot, because the party of your preference are all men of integrity. I guess.

All I'd ask is for consistency. If these agencies are going to come down hard on Trump over corruption, let's go all out on everyone in DC. What they've unearthed on Trump is likely peanuts in comparison to many others, including the current President.

They're all corrupt. Yet only Trump is being targeted. Just makes me wonder why, and I believe that's a question we all should ask, in the name of fairness, if for nothing else.

Create doubt, flood the zone with shit.  Classic Bannon tactic.  The charges don't matter because everyone does it.  Nothing to see here.  Why disprove when you can just disorient and confuse?  

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(06-09-2023, 10:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Tell me you haven't understood a single post I made in this thread without telling me you haven't understood a single post I made in this thread.


Die hard Trump supporters are as far away from me positionally as some Antifa asshat in Portland.

It's blatantly obvious you haven't taken the time to read the indictment word for word or else you wouldn't be making these kinds of specious arguments.  Have you taken the time to read the indictment word for word?  I don't think you have, and then you have the audacity to post on a thread that is labeled "Trump indicted...again."

Please take the time to do your homework and actually read the indictment of the many counts of Donald J. Trump engaging in espionage against the United States of America.  Hint there are over 30 counts of Trump willfully committing espionage. 

[NATI BENGALS]

Hopefully the FBI is red flagging all the traitors still supporting the lead traitor.

Probably should limit their ability to buy guns.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(06-09-2023, 08:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dear lord, the mental disconnect.  On one hand the January 6th riot was, and I quote;

“The January 6th insurrection shook our Republic to its core – and left behind physical scars and emotional trauma on members of our Congressional community and our Country that endure to this day. 


But 30% of our nation rising up against perceived tyranny would be a "temper tantrum?"  The inconsistency is mind boggling.  Also, why do you assume the majority of law enforcement and the military would be on the side you prefer?  If this kind of thing actually happens there will be a large percentage of those personnel who will think the current regime is the one violating the Constitution.  One side won't have a monopoly on the claim.  Also, the Democratic party has spent the last three years totally shitting on law enforcement.  If this happened it would be the worst thing in our nation's history, by far.

I'm sure you'll spin this post in some vulgar way, but your post reads like an adolescent fantasy of what you hope will happen.

This is exactly what I'm talking about from you.  This is a flawed premise argument at its core. First of all the Democratic party has not spent the last 3-yrs "shitting on law enforcement."  They're about weeding out the bad apples and getting these murderous cops off the street.  So where are these killer cops now?  Most are in prison, exactly where they belong.  Just b/c someone has a badge and a gun doesn't mean they're above the law and cannot be held accountable just like the rest of us.

The 30% of the MAGA that thought they were "rising up to perceived tyranny," did so b/c they were lied to and taken by a con artist named  Donald Trump and his cronies who all will most likely be indicted. 

As far as many personnel believing the current regime is the one violating the Constitution is absolutely laughable b/c once they're informed of the egregious acts committed by Donald Trump, they'll have zero reasons to doubt Trump sold our military out as losers and suckers (Trump's quote in re to our military 9/3/20))  Besides General Mark Milley assessed this and he found from the rank of NCO up didn't pose a threat.  The ones that did pose a threat are being weeded out. One side may not have a "monopoly" but the truth will prevail and I have faith in our country that Benedict Donald and his ilk will be a dark part of our nation's history just like the Confederates States of America. 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/09/03/report-trump-disparaged-us-war-dead-as-losers-suckers/

[Luvnit2]

(06-09-2023, 11:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Hopefully the FBI is red flagging all the traitors still supporting the lead traitor.

Probably should limit their ability to buy guns.

So you are urging the FBI to violate the 2nd Amendment because in your eyes you think Trump is a traitor??????

Grow up!