Trump, lets move on

[*pally*]

(07-21-2022, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I want Trump to go away as bad as I did Marvin Lewis, and that's saying something. I'm no Biden fan either though.

Joe was not my first choice but he was still a far better choice than his Republican opponent. Every day I thank God Trump wasn't reelected. I just shudder imagining how much worse things would be under a 2nd Trump term. I think anyone who followed Trump was screwed from the beginning. They walked into so many problems (probably way more than we have ever heard about), a totally dysfunctional Congress (getting the bills that have passed through is a major miracle), and 35% of American living in a delusional cult as open enemies of anything he said or did. Add to all the worldwide issues boiling over and we have a recipe for disaster. Joe is simply not a good enough large scale communicator nor is he dyanamic enough to be the 21st century FDR style crisis leader.

(07-21-2022, 10:31 AM)hollodero Wrote: Maybe the system deserves to be damaged. Imho, it is more responsible for Trump than Trump.

I don't disagree with that but the way Trump has damaged things is almost impossible to recover from. He didn't blow up systems...his rhetoric surrounding political opponents and differences destroyed trust in fellow Americans. If you didn't buy 100% into HIM, you were an enemy that must be gotten rid of. He made the fights about people. The divisions he sowed are as wide as the pacific ocean and will not be easily crossed.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-21-2022, 10:58 AM)Stewy Wrote: Bold - Finished it for you.  You forgot the most important part.

Pretty much the same way our "leaders" have been doing. 

[Stewy]

(07-21-2022, 10:53 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm not so sure it's worse now ? But I do believe it hasn't gotten any better. To me a bunch of the top politicians in office now are so far detached from the reality of our everyday lives they simply put suck.

While I agree they aren't better but for not the same reasons, can you imagine the country today with Trump in charge?  It's a friggin nightmare.

Where would Ukraine be?  We'd very likely be supporting Russia in this war.  We'd be the ones buying up Russian oil, vs. China and India.  While the world wept for Ukraine, Trump would be standing talking about the great Russians and his good friend Putin and probably calling the Ukrainian leader a terrorist and calling upon his people to rise against him.

Gas and oil prices would still be the same because who is president doesn't factor into global commodity prices.  And he'd be blaming everyone and everything and wouldn't have the right answers any more than Biden does, but the last thing he would do is blame Russia's war.

He'd be trying to have Janet Yellen lynched or fired.

I could go on and on, but bottom line is that I agree it is not better with Biden, but it would be an order of magnitude worse with Trump.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-21-2022, 11:03 AM)pally Wrote: Joe was not my first choice but he was still a far better choice than his Republican opponent. Every day I thank God Trump wasn't reelected. I just shudder imagining how much worse things would be under a 2nd Trump term. I think anyone who followed Trump was screwed from the beginning.  They walked into so many problems (probably way more than we have ever heard about), a totally dysfunctional Congress (getting the bills that have passed through is a major miracle), and 35% of American living in a delusional cult as open enemies of anything he said or did.  Add to all the worldwide issues boiling over and we have a recipe for disaster.  Joe is simply not a good enough large scale communicator nor is he dyanamic enough to be the 21st century FDR style crisis leader.  


I don't disagree with that but the way Trump has damaged things is almost impossible to recover from.  He didn't blow up systems...his rhetoric surrounding political opponents and differences destroyed trust in fellow Americans. If you didn't buy 100% into HIM, you were an enemy that must be gotten rid of.  He made the fights about people.  The divisions he sowed are as wide as the pacific ocean and will not be easily crossed.

Everytime I see or hear Trump it reminds me of a 14 year old boy showing off in the backyard for the girls. He never developed beyond that stage.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-21-2022, 11:06 AM)Stewy Wrote: While I agree they aren't better but for not the same reasons, can you imagine the country today with Trump in charge?  It's a friggin nightmare.

Where would Ukraine be?  We'd very likely be supporting Russia in this war.  We'd be the ones buying up Russian oil, vs. China and India.  While the world wept for Ukraine, Trump would be standing talking about the great Russians and his good friend Putin and probably calling the Ukrainian leader a terrorist and calling upon his people to rise against him.

Gas and oil prices would still be the same because who is president doesn't factor into global commodity prices.  And he'd be blaming everyone and everything and wouldn't have the right answers any more than Biden does, but the last thing he would do is blame Russia's war.

He'd be trying to have Janet Yellen lynched or fired.

I could go on and on, but bottom line is that I agree it is not better with Biden, but it would be an order of magnitude worse with Trump.

I agree

I just wish Trump and all the Trump talk would go away. Maybe we can start up a petition to invest in the lets buy Trump an Island in the middle of the Pacific and he can go there for free and leave us and politics behind him.

It's ok to dream, right ?

[*Nately120*]

(07-21-2022, 11:08 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Everytime I see or hear Trump it reminds me of a 14 year old boy showing off in the backyard for the girls. He never developed beyond that stage.

Lots of people didn't. I'm still a bit confused so many people considered being a teen the best days of their lives.  

[Stewy]

(07-21-2022, 11:00 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I could see Paul Ryan returning as well. 

Either way, everyone is going to be on the edge of their seat waiting for a Trump "truth" posted while he's on the toilet to throw the election into total chaos. 

He has the GOP by the balls.  They need his fan club to vote for "not Trump" in 2024. He knows this. 

Well here's the thing - as time goes on there are more and more Repub's who would jump ticket or not vote at all as opposed to voting for Trump, ever.  Trump cannot beat ANY Dem candidate at this point, even Biden.  That would require Dem's crossing over and that will not happen, whereas there are multitudes of Repub's like me who will vote for the latest Dem. if it is the devil himself vs. ever voting for Trump.  

I disagree 100% about him having the GOP by the balls.  The repub's DO NOT need to court his fanclub because his fanclub will never vote anything but Republican.  If you're blind enough to follow Trump, then you are a straight ticket Republican.  Can you imagine Trumpettes crossing lines and voting Democrat if Trump is not the candidate?  That is entirely laughable.  I could see some of them not voting at all because of his destruction of trust in the system, but they aren;t going to be votes for a Democrat, that's for damn sure.

[Stewy]

(07-21-2022, 11:12 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree

I just wish Trump and all the Trump talk would go away. Maybe we can start up a petition to invest in the lets buy Trump an Island in the middle of the Pacific and he can go there for free and leave us and politics behind him.

It's ok to dream, right ?

Him being kicked off twitter was one the best thing that ever happened for the country.  You have to seek out his words now as opposed to them being shoved in our faces.  His relevance is slowly eroding.  His endorsement is not an automatic win.  Conventional Pence's endorsed candidates are beating Trump endorsed candidates.  The Trumpettes still love Trump, but not the leaders nor base of Republican party.  Also his damn of lies is breaking under his feet.  Trump himself may not get charged, but as his followers get indicted for Federal crimes in NY and Georgia and other states, they're going to run away from him to save their own asses.  All it will take is 1-2 to come clean, and the rest will follow to save their own necks.

[*Nately120*]

(07-21-2022, 11:12 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree

I just wish Trump and all the Trump talk would go away. Maybe we can start up a petition to invest in the lets buy Trump an Island in the middle of the Pacific and he can go there for free and leave us and politics behind him.

It's ok to dream, right ?

If you recall, this was the immediate reaction to the 1/6 thing.  Establishment republicans like Lindsey Graham and the talking heads on fox news (mostly via texts the peasants weren't supposed to see) were going on about how enough is enough and Trump was ruining his legacy and needed to condemn things and the party needed to move on.  Eventually, they realized that 1/6 and Trump's election lies weren't going to sway enough people to make a difference so they started with not saying the election was rigged but that we needed to look into election security, and that 1/6 was no big deal or not Trump's fault or caused by ANTIFA and blah blah blah.

It was clear that the reaction to the whole 1/6 thing caught the GOP off guard, because they assumed that was the end of him...not so..

(07-21-2022, 11:15 AM)Stewy Wrote: I disagree 100% about him having the GOP by the balls.  The repub's DO NOT need to court his fanclub because his fanclub will never vote anything but Republican.  If you're blind enough to follow Trump, then you are a straight ticket Republican.  Can you imagine Trumpettes crossing lines and voting Democrat if Trump is not the candidate?  That is entirely laughable.  I could see some of them not voting at all because of his destruction of trust in the system, but they aren;t going to be votes for a Democrat, that's for damn sure.

 
I can imagine Trump convincing them that he rightfully won the GOP primary and that if he runs as a 3rd party or if they write in his name enough people will vote for him that he will win.  Remember, these people believe Trump won 2016 and 2020 in a landslide winning both the popular vote and electoral college both times.  Some of these people think Trump 2016 and 2020 was like Reagan v Mondale twice over, so if he says everyone will vote for him, why would they vote for DeSantis?

Keep in mind NOT voting for Trump is tantamount to treason for these people too....and well....I've thrown my votes away on hopeless 3rd party candidates, so I know how making a statement can seem more appealing to winning to idiots like myself.

Still, I KNOW Trump can convince his die hards that he's the only one who can win in 2024 whether he is on the ballot or not.

EDIT - I can see it playing out as DeSantis wining the primary and Trump saying that democrats rigged the vote so that DeSantis, a weak candidate who can't win because no one but Trump can win, would get the nomination.

[*pally*]

(07-21-2022, 11:15 AM)Stewy Wrote: Well here's the thing - as time goes on there are more and more Repub's who would jump ticket or not vote at all as opposed to voting for Trump, ever.  Trump cannot beat ANY Dem candidate at this point, even Biden.  That would require Dem's crossing over and that will not happen, whereas there are multitudes of Repub's like me who will vote for the latest Dem. if it is the devil himself vs. ever voting for Trump.  

I disagree 100% about him having the GOP by the balls.  The repub's DO NOT need to court his fanclub because his fanclub will never vote anything but Republican.  If you're blind enough to follow Trump, then you are a straight ticket Republican.  Can you imagine Trumpettes crossing lines and voting Democrat if Trump is not the candidate?  That is entirely laughable.  I could see some of them not voting at all because of his destruction of trust in the system, but they aren;t going to be votes for a Democrat, that's for damn sure.

Much of his fan club, which is still a big part of Republicans,  won't vote if Trump isn't involved.  At least that is what the Republican politicians are afraid of.  Their vitriol drives their agendas and news coverage.  Where would current Republicans be without their very loud made-up culture wars dominating the news?  As long as they can talk about societal issues that push their base to vote, these politicians don't have to come up with actual ideas to address the economy, healthcare, housing, environment, and other real issues concerning Americans

[*Nately120*]

(07-21-2022, 12:20 PM)pally Wrote: Much of his fan club, which is still a big part of Republicans,  won't vote if Trump isn't involved.  At least that is what the Republican politicians are afraid of.  Their vitriol drives their agendas and news coverage.  Where would current Republicans be without their very loud made-up culture wars dominating the news?  As long as they can talk about societal issues that push their base to vote, these politicians don't have to come up with actual ideas to address the economy, healthcare, housing, environment, and other real issues concerning Americans

I think some would stay home but I think they'd also write him in and then he'd say he won the 2024 election, regardless of what the vote tally says.  What are the MAGA people going to say?  Show us evidence?  You're lying this time?

There are a lot of crazy ways this could go.

- Trump wins the nomination legit
- Trump loses the primary and declares it rigged and urges people to not vote or to write him in
- Trump runs as a 3rd party
- Trump and/or his base insist whomever gets the GOP nomination have Trump as the VP
- Trump's fanbase decides the above president needs to be hanged for treason


Unless Trump changes his ways, he's going to run, he's going to declare the primary to be rigged, he's going to declare the election to be rigged, he's going to say that he won, and he's going to ask for money so he can fight all the stuff he says was rigged.  Win or lose, Trump has declared the elections he's been in to be rigged against him...why stop now?

Then he's going to say that he's the only president to win 3 elections in a row, because he isn't going to bother googling to find out that FDR did it first.  Trump 2024 could be like Ross Perot if Ross Perot could convince people to riot on his behalf.

[Goalpost]

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/economic-issues-dominate-top-issue-voters-new-poll-shows-rcna36715

I just don't think Trump this and Trump that is really on people's minds. Maybe the results of the judges from the Supreme Court from the abortion issue but even that ranks low. Most people, Dems and Repubs just want a better economic climate.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-21-2022, 12:20 PM)pally Wrote: Much of his fan club, which is still a big part of Republicans,  won't vote if Trump isn't involved.  At least that is what the Republican politicians are afraid of.  Their vitriol drives their agendas and news coverage.  Where would current Republicans be without their very loud made-up culture wars dominating the news?  As long as they can talk about societal issues that push their base to vote, these politicians don't have to come up with actual ideas to address the economy, healthcare, housing, environment, and other real issues concerning Americans

And that's what really burns my ass ! All "they" care about is mud slinging and who's winning the arguement on so many BS issues. Meanwhile all the stuff that really matters to us is swept under the table.

[HarleyDog]

(07-21-2022, 10:31 AM)hollodero Wrote: Maybe the system deserves to be damaged. Imho, it is more responsible for Trump than Trump.

And here's your winner! The media made Trump what he is today and also continues to keep him in the forefront. Sucks for Biden because if he actually had any accomplishments (which he doesn't) then they are overshadowed by the medias love/hate of Trump. Maybe, just maybe, Biden is screwing up catastrophically worse than any president before because he's trying to get some kind of attention? 

With that said, the media is not the sole source of Trumps life support machine. Individuals need to let it go as well. So for those of you (not pointing at Hollodero - just piggy backing off my reply) who just can't seem to keep his name out of your mouth, unplug yourselves and set yourself free.

[*Nately120*]

Recognizing that Trump plays an uncomfortably large role in our country isn't what keeps him relevant.

Also keep in mind that him winning in 2016 and being the GOP face he is today was due to people saying "Nahhhh, never could happen. All sizzle no steak." People refused to believe his presidential bid was more than hot air to get attention and money, and here we are.

Plus, who wants us to take our eyes off of Trump? The guy is throwing shade at republicans all over and is under investigation...seems like an interesting time for people to say "OK, you can stop looking at him now."

[Leon]

(07-21-2022, 09:28 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Why may I ask does the name Donald Trump come up in every conversation about current politics ? Every single time something is said about how bad Biden is screwing things up you can bet your life the name Trump is coming !

That's all we've heard ever since Biden was elected, Trump, Trump, Trump. He's in the news everyday. Thousands of articles on the internet. I'm sick to death of hearing the name Trump ! He's gone, hopefully for good.

Just face it Biden and this current administration are horrible. Trump was horrible. But you can't make Biden be good by constantly using the Trump gauge.

It's like the Lewis/Dalton thing they're gone, get over it. Trump is gone. Lets judge Biden on Biden.

Rant switch off.

trump will be president again in 2024 and will get back to work putting this country back on the right path so you better get use to hearing his name a whole lot more.

just look at how bad things have got without him. whether you like him or not, the country needs him.

[Leon]

(07-21-2022, 11:24 AM)Stewy Wrote: Him being kicked off twitter was one the best thing that ever happened for the country.  You have to seek out his words now as opposed to them being shoved in our faces.  His relevance is slowly eroding.  His endorsement is not an automatic win.  Conventional Pence's endorsed candidates are beating Trump endorsed candidates.  The Trumpettes still love Trump, but not the leaders nor base of Republican party.  Also his damn of lies is breaking under his feet.  Trump himself may not get charged, but as his followers get indicted for Federal crimes in NY and Georgia and other states, they're going to run away from him to save their own asses.  All it will take is 1-2 to come clean, and the rest will follow to save their own necks.

what are you talking about. he's as relevant as ever. candidates are fighting tooth and nail to get his endorsement. and are scared as hell to get on his bad side cause they know how much power he has. also calling people who support him names is part of the problem. how is this country supposed to come together when one side is calling the other side childish names. this country needs to grow up and focus on getting some real work done instead of hating the other side.

[*pally*]

(07-21-2022, 01:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Recognizing that Trump plays an uncomfortably large role in our country isn't what keeps him relevant.

Also keep in mind that him winning in 2016 and being the GOP face he is today was due to people saying "Nahhhh, never could happen. All sizzle no steak."  People refused to believe his presidential bid was more than hot air to get attention and money, and here we are.

Plus, who wants us to take our eyes off of Trump?  The guy is throwing shade at republicans all over and is under investigation...seems like an interesting time for people to say "OK, you can stop looking at him now."

American apathy is the root cause of all of this.  People who refuse to get involved in the political process because they claim it doesn't affect them. 

 The primary system awards those who are involved.  The people who are most involved in the process are those who are passionate about their beliefs which often are those who are the most extreme of their parties. Closed primaries lock out those not belonging to a political party. Primaries also benefit those with name recognition.  So what happens is for the general election we often end up with extreme candidates for those who didn't or couldn't vote in the primary elections are forced to choose between.  

We have to stop giving credence to the thoughts/ideas/beliefs of uber-rich or famous people just because they are uber-rich or famous. 

People need to work to change the voting rules in their states.  Politicians are doing everything in their power to consolidate their own power.  Primaries should be open or like California combined so that the top primary winners make it to the general election regardless of party.  Ballots should be open to allow for more 3rd party or independent candidates.  Ranked voting could be a real game changer. 

Voters need to actually inform themselves about candidates and not just vote for them because they are 1) the incumbent 2) a member of their party 3) famous.  They need to protest and force changes to prevent gerrymandering. Politicians should be removed entirely from the process. Granted that didn't work out for Ohio in 2022 but it will once a few more things are tweaked. 

We have a dysfunctional government because we collectively have voted in a large number of dysfunctional politicians who are more interested in keeping their cushy job than actually doing it.

The most important thing any patriotic American can do it VOTE in every single election 

[Belsnickel]

It hasn't gotten any better because we have the same ineffectual Congress. It's already been brought up why Trump is still all over the place, but people really need to stop putting so much stock into POTUS to begin with. Congress is to blame for so many of our woes.

When Roe fell, all I heard from some progressive outlets was how both Obama and Biden paid lip service to the idea of codifying it in legislation. News flash, folks, that's the job of Congress! The POTUS isn't in charge of the legislature. Blame Congressional leadership for these shortcomings. Blame them for not effectively exercising their oversight authority on the Executive branch when they overreach. Blame them for putting party above country. Ask your Representatives and Senators why they aren't doing the things they were sent to Washington to do. Then, when they give you a wishy washy answer that is nothing but empty platitudes, tell them you'll be looking forward to casting your vote for someone else.

The system is a mess right now because we, the people, are allowing it to be. I shared in another thread how the approval rating for both Republicans and Democrats in Congress right now is below 40%. But I guarantee you that the majority of races with incumbents running will result in incumbents winning. Nothing changes because we are allowing it to be. Write someone in if you don't like the candidates on the ballot. Send a message. When the votes are counted for an incumbent running unopposed and they get 90% because 10% wrote in someone else, even their own name, then it sends a message.

[hollodero]

(07-21-2022, 01:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: And here's your winner! The media made Trump what he is today and also continues to keep him in the forefront. Sucks for Biden because if he actually had any accomplishments (which he doesn't) then they are overshadowed by the medias love/hate of Trump. Maybe, just maybe, Biden is screwing up catastrophically worse than any president before because he's trying to get some kind of attention? 

With that said, the media is not the sole source of Trumps life support machine. Individuals need to let it go as well. So for those of you (not pointing at Hollodero - just piggy backing off my reply) who just can't seem to keep his name out of your mouth, unplug yourselves and set yourself free.

I wouldn't restrict my comment to the media. Though they play their part for sure.

Regarding your recommendation about Trump, that is a tough ask. We're just finding out about his behaviour throughout the Capitol storm, and I find it appalling, and then some. I can't just let it slide; I can't let all these Trump times just slide. Even more so since I (meaning, the millions that have a similar take) am not who's keeping Trump relevant. It's his devout supporters that stand with him no matter what, and the GOP that as a whole does so too until this day. That's not the fault of those appalled by Trump. If any, I see it as the fault of those who aren't.