Trump may face a reckoning in case brought by female accuser

[hollodero]

(12-06-2017, 08:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh, absolutely.  I already related on this board that I have a friend who was groped by him at an event.  She was stunned and mortified and afterwards he was with a group of guys talking, they all looked over at her and laughed.  Even without that first hand account I would believe them, Trump certainly gives off that kind of vibe.

Alright, must have missed that.
Which might open up a whole bunch of follow-up questions... but for now you indeed carried this hot iron, I'll leave it at that.

(12-06-2017, 08:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Maybe now that I've shown him how it's done GMDino will actually provide a straight answer on this topic for a change.

I usually have no intention to get into one of your debates. But this is an exception. I agree, there indeed wasn't a really satisfactory answer as of yet.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-06-2017, 08:57 PM)hollodero Wrote: Alright, must have missed that.
Which might open up a whole bunch of follow-up questions... but for now you indeed carried this hot iron, I'll leave it at that.

No worries, I certainly don't expect you to have seen every post I've ever made.  The thing with Trump, I don't think he's a nice or good person.  He's vainglorious, self centered, thin skinned and sexist.  The issue is, he was all of those thing when he was elected, none of this is new information.  We bought exactly what was on the box, no deceptive packaging here.

Quote:
I usually have no intention to get into one of your debates. But this is an exception. I agree, there indeed wasn't a really satisfactory answer as of yet.

I have many faults, what I don't do is duck direct questions or equivocate.  I have zero patience or respect for those who do.  If you got caught in a contradiction or an inconsistency just own it like a man and we'll move on.  The moral cowardice of dodging ownership of this under the flimsy guise of sarcasm or what, for some people, passes for wit is pathetic.

[hollodero]

(12-06-2017, 09:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No worries, I certainly don't expect you to have seen every post I've ever made.  The thing with Trump, I don't think he's a nice or good person.  He's vainglorious, self centered, thin skinned and sexist.  The issue is, he was all of those thing when he was elected, none of this is new information.  We bought exactly what was on the box, no deceptive packaging here.

Yeah that all he was and is, and some other things. E.g. he also lies a lot. There was, however, some deception and some things you couldn't foresee. Like Charlottesville, the chaotic admin full of foreign agents and incompetent people, the Russian angle with all the countermeasures like firing FBI directors and such, that he would keep his business (with monthly reports to him and then some), that he would behave so clumsy on the world stage, that he would keep shit-tweeting, endorse the pedophile and such. Many said he'd become presidential, that he'd drain some swamp, that there'd be great healthcare for everyone for a fraction of the cost, that he is a great dealmaker making great deals and some other illusions. There was deception left and right, albeit maybe self-deception at times.

But sure, many quite essential things about the birther in chief were on display before the election. Which makes it all the more (and not less) puzzling why decent intelligent conservative-leaning people would still go for him. I do understand the Hillary conundrum and I too think she's quite a terrible candidate and comes with a few red flags, but that doesn't explain going for the clown bus wrapped in red flags instead. But that I already asked and it was already answered along the lines of "Maxine Waters is hysterical" and some other supersolid reasons, so.

I will never understand it though, why you bought this box and keep not throwing it away despite all the Breitbartian combination of vile and stupid that takes over ideologically and whispers in Donald's ear. I feel at this point your chosen adversaries, the liberals that have a history of not really driving the country into the ground, are way closer to conservatives than this destructive alt-right wing, and Trump definitely sells as a representative of the latter; and if you know Trump you must also know how reprehensible the Bannon wing is. That's what I do not get. A conservative could be with Jeff Flake and not betray a conservative bone by that. Yet, it's this guy, and somehow "no deceptive packaging, we knew he's a douchebag" counts as a plus for him.

And now I learn you knew quite well he indeed gropes women, and still. Utterly confusing. And voting for him is one thing, sticking to him and go after his critics instead is yet another thing. (I'm not saying you especially do this all the time... but there's some element of that)

(12-06-2017, 09:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have many faults

Sure, you're a sociopathic steeler fan. The first treat is forgivable.

(12-06-2017, 09:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: what I don't do is duck direct questions or equivocate.  I have zero patience or respect for those who do.  If you got caught in a contradiction or an inconsistency just own it like a man and we'll move on.  The moral cowardice of dodging ownership of this under the flimsy guise of sarcasm or what, for some people, passes for wit is pathetic.

OK, in principle I try to conduct myself among these lines and I don't care being caught in a contradiction, especially on a message board, on the contrary it's a chance to adapt my positions. I stick to the general response here though, I do not intend to get dragged into your specific feud with Dino.

[GMDino]

Remember when Trump admitted he "said things and did things"?



People forgave and voted for him. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-07-2017, 06:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Remember when Trump admitted he "said things and did things"?



People forgave and voted for him. 

Can you please post an apology from Hillary?

She only put those poor women down for years... Trump's accusers only came out once he was running.


hollodero,
Samsung creating a 17B chip plant in Austin, TX
Samsonite relocating manufacturing jobs back to the US
Foxcon setting up a plant in the US: 7B 30-40k jobs
Kia/Hyndai new plant 3.1B
Alibaba Group creating the software to allow US small businesses to sell directly to China
Toyota 9-10B upgrading existing plants to increase production
Softbank 50B and 50k new jobs expanding into the US.
GM 1B shifted back to US instead of investing overseas.
Ford abandoning Mexico plant, re-investing 700Mil in Detriot plant.
Chrysler 1B Michigan and Ohio plants
Broadcom moving HQ from Singapore back to the US.
Bayer 16B, half in agriculture research in the US
IBM 1B in jobs in the US
Lockheed Martin saved the US money on the f-35 plane they were developing and planning to create more jobs here.
Dow Chemicals new state of the art plant in Midland, Texas at dinner for Trump.
Trans-Lux sped up their process of bringing a plant back to the US from China

I know there's more that I'm missing. Just giving you a brief run down on some that made announcements after meeting with Trump or after he was declared POTUS.

[GMDino]

(12-08-2017, 02:59 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Can you please post an apology from Hillary?

She only put those poor women down for years... Trump's accusers only came out once he was running.


hollodero,
Samsung creating a 17B chip plant in Austin, TX
Samsonite relocating manufacturing jobs back to the US
Foxcon setting up a plant in the US: 7B 30-40k jobs
Kia/Hyndai new plant 3.1B
Alibaba Group creating the software to allow US small businesses to sell directly to China
Toyota 9-10B upgrading existing plants to increase production
Softbank 50B and 50k new jobs expanding into the US.
GM 1B shifted back to US instead of investing overseas.
Ford abandoning Mexico plant, re-investing 700Mil in Detriot plant.
Chrysler 1B Michigan and Ohio plants
Broadcom moving HQ from Singapore back to the US.
Bayer 16B, half in agriculture research in the US
IBM 1B in jobs in the US
Lockheed Martin saved the US money on the f-35 plane they were developing and planning to create more jobs here.
Dow Chemicals new state of the art plant in Midland, Texas at dinner for Trump.
Trans-Lux sped up their process of bringing a plant back to the US from China

I know there's more that I'm missing. Just giving you a brief run down on some that made announcements after meeting with Trump or after he was declared POTUS.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-sexual-assault-allegations-claims-women-how-many-groping-accused-us-president-a8091581.html

Quote:Here’s a roundup of those women who have accused Mr Trump of sexual assault or harassment.


Jessica Leeds, a former traveling salesperson, alleged that Mr Trump grabbed her breasts and tried to put his hand up her skirt while on a first-class flight in the 1980s. Ms Leeds was in her late 30s at the time.

Ivana Trump, Mr Trump’s first wife, once used the word “rape” to describe an encounter with him. The accusation was made in a 1993 book following a divorce settlement between the two. She has since softened her language, saying that she didn’t mean the word in a “literal or criminal sense”.
Jill Harth, a former business partner of Mr Trump’s, said that Mr Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips, groped her breasts, and grabbed her genitals in what she described in a 1997 as an “attempted rape”. The encounter allegedly occurred at Mr Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate, in one of his children’s bedroom. She also says that Mr Trump groped her under the table at a dinner with colleagues at the Plaza Hotel.
Kristen Anderson alleged that Mr Trump put his hand up her skirt and touched her genitals over her underwear at the China Club in Manhattan at some point in the early 1990s when she was in her early 20s. Ms Anderson was an aspiring model at the time.
Lisa Boyne accused Mr Trump of insisting that female models walk across a table at a New York restaurant in 1996, and then remarking on their underwear and genitalia. She was 25 at the time.
Cathy Heller says that Mr Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips during a Mother’s Day brunch at mar-a-Lago in 1997.
Temple Taggart, a former Miss Utah, alleged that Mr Trump forcibly kissed her on the mouth on two different occasions. The first incident was the first time that they met.  The incidents occurred at the 1997 Miss USA pageant event, and in Trump Tower.
Mariah Billado, a former Miss Vermont Teen USA, has alleged that says that Mr Trump walked into a dressing room unannounced in 1997. She said that there were several teen beauty queens aged between 15 and 19 in the room naked at the time.
Karena Virginia alleged that Mr Trump grabbed her arm and touched her breast while she was waiting for a car after the US Open.
Bridget Sullivan, a former Miss New Hampshire, alleged that Mr Trump walked into the Miss USA pageant dressing room in 2000 while contestants were naked. She was 19 at the time.
Tasha Dixon, a former Miss Arizona, alleged that Mr Trump entered dressing rooms at the Miss USA pageant in 2001 while contestants were “half-naked”.
Melinda Macgillivray alleged that Mr Trump grabbed her buttock in a pavilion behind the main house of his Mar-a-Lago estate in 2003. They were in the middle of a group of people, she said, and it was during a concert performed by Ray Charles.
Jennifer Murphy said that Mr Trump forcibly kissed her after a job interview in 2005. She was 26 at the time.
Rachel Cooks alleged that Mr Trump kissed her forcibly on the lips outside the elevator in Trump Tower in 2005. She was 22 at the time.
Natasha Stoynoff alleged that Mr Trump pushed her against a wall and forcibly kissed her in a closed-door room in his Mar-a-Lago estate in 2005. Ms Stoynoff, a writer for PEOPLE magazine, was there to interview Mr Trump.
Ninni Laaksonen alleged that Mr Trump grabbed her buttocks while taking photos outside the Ed Sullivan Theater, and before Mr Trump appeared on the Late Show with David Letterman. Ms Laaksonen was 20 at the time, in 2006.
Jessica Drake alleged that Mr Trump forcibly kissed her and two female friends in 2006, when she was 32. When she pushed him away, she said that he asked her: “How much?”
Samantha Holvey, a former Miss North Carolina, alleged that Mr Trump treated women like “meat” and would barge into dressing rooms to inspect women. She said the incidents occurred in 2006, when she was 20.
Summer Zervos alleged that Mr Trump grabbed her by her shoulders and forcibly kissed her, and groped her breasts, while she was a contestant on The Apprentice in 2007. She said the incidents took place at Trump Tower in New York, and at a hotel in Los Angeles.
Cassandra Searles, a former Miss Washington, said that Mr Trump grabbed her buttocks repeatedly in 2013 during the Miss USA pageant in 2013. She said that he also invited her to his hotel room.

The White House and Mr Trump have denied the allegations. During a recent press briefing, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said that the West Wing's official position is that the women accusing Mr Trump of sexual assault or harassment are lying. Mr Trump has also suggested that the women who have come forward accusing him were not attractive enough for him to sexually assault htem.

Some were brought forward long before Trump's run for office.

Has he apologized for saying they were liars?

Oh and you forgot Benghazi. 

And can we have links to the those deals?  Thanks!

[Benton]

(12-08-2017, 02:59 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Can you please post an apology from Hillary?

She only put those poor women down for years... Trump's accusers only came out once he was running.

Uhhhh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

From cheating people he employed to people he did business with to sexual assaults, it was a long list well before he ever announced. 

Quote:hollodero,

Samsung creating a 17B chip plant in Austin, TX
Samsonite relocating manufacturing jobs back to the US
Foxcon setting up a plant in the US: 7B 30-40k jobs
Kia/Hyndai new plant 3.1B
Alibaba Group creating the software to allow US small businesses to sell directly to China
Toyota 9-10B upgrading existing plants to increase production
Softbank 50B and 50k new jobs expanding into the US.
GM 1B shifted back to US instead of investing overseas.
Ford abandoning Mexico plant, re-investing 700Mil in Detriot plant.
Chrysler 1B Michigan and Ohio plants
Broadcom moving HQ from Singapore back to the US.
Bayer 16B, half in agriculture research in the US
IBM 1B in jobs in the US
Lockheed Martin saved the US money on the f-35 plane they were developing and planning to create more jobs here.
Dow Chemicals new state of the art plant in Midland, Texas at dinner for Trump.
Trans-Lux sped up their process of bringing a plant back to the US from China

I know there's more that I'm missing. Just giving you a brief run down on some that made announcements after meeting with Trump or after he was declared POTUS.

Eh, most of those have more to do with rising costs overseas. And giant tax breaks.

Samsonite, for example, considered the move last year (as far as I know they still haven't done anything) due to rising labor costs in China (think that was where they currently make luggage). 

For the others, like Foxconn, I dunno how much of a benefit. They're getting $3 billion in incentives and tax breaks and direct subsidies... for a $7 billion investment. In other words, about half. And if their last announcements hold true, it may be not much of anything.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-08-2017, 03:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-sexual-assault-allegations-claims-women-how-many-groping-accused-us-president-a8091581.html


Some were brought forward long before Trump's run for office.

Has he apologized for saying they were liars?

Oh and you forgot Benghazi. 

And can we have links to the those deals?  Thanks!

I won't deny that he's probably done something to some of them. with only he said she saids, not much can be done, so who knows.
He's definitely the type that would take an advantage of his power, no one is that clueless about Trump.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-08-2017, 03:21 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, most of those have more to do with rising costs overseas. And giant tax breaks.

Samsonite, for example, considered the move last year (as far as I know they still haven't done anything) due to rising labor costs in China (think that was where they currently make luggage). 

For the others, like Foxconn, I dunno how much of a benefit. They're getting $3 billion in incentives and tax breaks and direct subsidies... for a $7 billion investment. In other words, about half. And if their last announcements hold true, it may be not much of anything.

Doesn't really matter.
Trump is POTUS. It's happening on his watch.
S&P 500 remains strong under Trump.
Unemployment at a 17 year low.
GDP Growth has improved.
Manufacturing jobs on the rise.
Home prices slowing rebounding.

Yes some of these are Trends that would have happened anyways, but again, it's happening on Trumps watch so that's how it will go down in the eyes of the majority of the people.

[Benton]

(12-08-2017, 03:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Doesn't really matter.
Trump is POTUS. It's happening on his watch.
S&P 500 remains strong under Trump.
Unemployment at a 17 year low.
GDP Growth has improved.
Manufacturing jobs on the rise.
Home prices slowing rebounding.

Yes some of these are Trends that would have happened anyways, but again, it's happening on Trumps watch so that's how it will go down in the eyes of the majority of the people.

As partisan as things are, I doubt the majority of people do. The majority of people voted against trump, so unless he ends world hunger my guess is the majority of people still won’t like anything he does.

And that’s ok, people shouldn’t like or dislike something based on the person, they should be looking at the policy that created the situation. In this case, the policy was a more stable economy created, in part, by oversight and market regulation, which is largely being cast away. That’s troublesome.

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2017, 05:44 PM)Benton Wrote: As partisan as things are, I doubt the majority of people do. The majority of people voted against trump, so unless he ends world hunger my guess is the majority of people still won’t like anything he does.

And that’s ok, people shouldn’t like or dislike something based on the person, they should be looking at the policy that created the situation. In this case, the policy was a more stable economy created, in part, by oversight and market regulation, which is largely being cast away. That’s troublesome.

Nobody got the majority of the vote

If Trump ended world hunger there would still be a population complaining about the menu.

Just see your last 2 sentences to support my second point. 

[*Nately120*]

(12-08-2017, 08:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nobody got the majority of the vote

Technically, he said the majority of people voted against Trump, which would mean Clinton plus other non-Trump votes, which would be 53.91 and therefore the majority.  Then again, that same criteria means 51.82, and ergo the majority of voters, voted against Hilary, too.  That really sums up this election quite well, if I do say so myself. 

Clinton.....48.18
Trump.....46.09
Other.......5.73

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2017, 08:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Technically, he said the majority of people voted against Trump, which would mean Clinton plus other non-Trump votes, which would be 53.91 and therefore the majority.  Then again, that same criteria means 51.82, and ergo the majority of voters, voted against Hilary, too.  That really sums up this election quite well, if I do say so myself. 

Clinton.....48.18
Trump.....46.09
Other.......5.73

And untechnically I said no one got the majority of the vote.

Not sure if you are agreeing with what I said, disagreeing, or just saying. 

[GMDino]

(12-08-2017, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And untechnically I said no one got the majority of the vote.

Not sure if you are agreeing with what I said, disagreeing, or just saying. 

The majority of the votes cast?  Is that a better way to say it?

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2017, 10:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: The majority of the votes cast?  Is that a better way to say it?

Nope. 

[*Nately120*]

(12-08-2017, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And untechnically I said no one got the majority of the vote.

Not sure if you are agreeing with what I said, disagreeing, or just saying. 

You just interjected when he said that in a tone that indicated you were being some sort of smug "I'm right and you're wrong" sort of fellow.  Where the hell I would get such a notion from the likes of you is beyond me!

[GMDino]

(12-08-2017, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope. 

How about more people voted for other people than voted for Trump? 

Or this some kind of way to deny he lost the popular vote?    

[GMDino]

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/oct/18/allegations-about-donald-trump-and-miss-teen-usa-c/

Quote:Trump’s words

Three days before Kind made his statement, CNN reported on comments Trump has made about women to radio talk show host Howard Stern over the years. In a 2005 interview, Trump talked about walking in on naked contestants -- but that was in response to a discussion about the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants, whose contestants are adults. Trump said:

Well, I'll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know, I'm inspecting, I want to make sure that everything is good.

You know, the dresses. ‘Is everyone okay?’ You know, they're standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that. But no, I've been very good.

Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to our requests for this item, but his campaign did issue this statement in response to the BuzzFeed story:

"These accusations have no merit and have already been disproven by many other individuals who were present. When you see questionable attacks like this magically put out there in the final month of a presidential campaign, you have to ask yourself what the political motivations are and why the media is pushing it."

There is not evidence, however, that the accusations have been disproved -- only that some of the contestants said they were not aware of the alleged incident, and some believed it could not have happened.

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2017, 10:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: How about more people voted for other people than voted for Trump? 

Or this some kind of way to deny he lost the popular vote?    

And more people voted for other people than they did any candidate. So to point out that one candidate didn't get the majority of the vote sorta falls in the "so what" category. 

Not sure how that is "denying" who won the popular vote. What do you get for that by the way? 

[*bfine32*]

(12-08-2017, 10:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You just interjected when he said that in a tone that indicated you were being some sort of smug "I'm right and you're wrong" sort of fellow.  Where the hell I would get such a notion from the likes of you is beyond me!

Nope, just pointed out that no one got the majority of the vote. But kudos to you and your ability to detect tone.