Trump mocks Elizabeth Warren’s heritage AND #metoo

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-20-2018, 10:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Reminds me of an old adage about people living in glass houses versus throwing stones.

Much like the conservatives who rail against homosexuality and end up being gay.  It sadly seems that the loudest voices are simply trying to distract others from their own conduct.

[Dill]

(08-20-2018, 08:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Figured this would be as good of a place to put this as any:

https://cw39.com/2018/08/20/asia-argento-leading-voice-of-me-too-movement-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-young-man/


If I laugh at this am I "mocking" the me too movement?

Probably, since you'd be taking delight in a rape victim who accused a rapist being accused herself--someone associated with a movement to gain justice for harassed/raped women.


The commentator is pretty insensitive as well. Rape victims should not accuse anyone if they have seduced someone one year under age?  Might as well ask what they young man was wearing.

[hollodero]

(08-20-2018, 09:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The point would be to ridicule a hypocrite who gained notoriety by accusing someone of acts she was participating in.  Everything doesn't have to be aimed at curing cancer. You guys do realize a laugh is a expression of human emotion and it's not always one of joy?  I get the feigning insolence that someone would laugh at this, but yeah, I would laugh at this predator; as I would laugh at Weinstein. 

Yeah, and you also associate the metoo-movement with one accuser of thousands and thousands, in cases and matters smaller and bigger. "Metoo boomerang!". What is so good about this, or so funny, or so "fair" to the movement, whatever. What about all the other molested women, are they ridiculed now too?

Of course, it seems just like FOX you associate metoo with leftists and liberals. That would explain the schadenfreude. But it's really sad to do so, to be happy about any "boomerang" or any discredited accuser because it's a "liberal thing". I usually do not accuse you of being affine to echo chambers, but on this one I didn't get FOX and I don't get you as well. This isn't exactly a fun topic and why would you wish the metoo-movement bad things really. Why?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-21-2018, 06:15 AM)hollodero Wrote: 1.This isn't exactly a fun topic


2.why would you wish the metoo-movement bad things really. Why?

1. Agreed.

2. Because it's a toxic movement that promotes burning people at the state of public opinion before any facts, evidence, or due process has a chance.  It might have started off as something intended to be good, but it quickly and irreparably diverted course. Take a look at Chris Hardwick. His ex wrote an angry open letter accusing him of things, and instantly he was crucified in public opinion, lost his jobs, lost his public appearances, got every mention of him wiped from the site he created... only for an independent investigator to later find zero evidence against him. Damage already done though, he got his show back, but not until he went through a long period of torment and defamation. His career/life won't ever be the same.

A simple accusation gets you automatically fired these days, and there's really nothing you can do to defend yourself against it, true or not.

[GMDino]

(08-21-2018, 01:02 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Much like the conservatives who rail against homosexuality and end up being gay.  It sadly seems that the loudest voices are simply trying to distract others from their own conduct.

Or men jumped with joy that one female at the forefront is accused of something because....men.

[GMDino]

(08-21-2018, 08:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Agreed.

2. Because it's a toxic movement that promotes burning people at the state of public opinion before any facts, evidence, or due process has a chance.  It might have started off as something intended to be good, but it quickly and irreparably diverted course. Take a look at Chris Hardwick. His ex wrote an angry open letter accusing him of things, and instantly he was crucified in public opinion, lost his jobs, lost his public appearances, got every mention of him wiped from the site he created... only for an independent investigator to later find zero evidence against him. Damage already done though, he got his show back, but not until he went through a long period of torment and defamation. His career/life won't ever be the same.

A simple accusation gets you automatically fired these days, and there's really nothing you can do to defend yourself against it, true or not.

Unless you're the POTUS or running to be the Speaker of the House.  


All seriousness aside it was inevitable that a woman or two would get caught up in the movement...and that men everywhere would rejoice that now they can say the entire movement is moot and awful.

SSF mentioned all the gay Republicans...I see a difference between a movement to encourage people who have been abused or oppressed that ends up having some members that did the oppressing called out of it (metoo) and a movement designed to oppress a group that is being lead by people who are self loathing.

If this is true she will suffer the same fate as others before her (except prominent republicans) and the movement will still have done good.

[hollodero]

(08-21-2018, 08:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Agreed.

2. Because it's a toxic movement that promotes burning people at the state of public opinion before any facts, evidence, or due process has a chance.  It might have started off as something intended to be good, but it quickly and irreparably diverted course. Take a look at Chris Hardwick. His ex wrote an angry open letter accusing him of things, and instantly he was crucified in public opinion, lost his jobs, lost his public appearances, got every mention of him wiped from the site he created... only for an independent investigator to later find zero evidence against him. Damage already done though, he got his show back, but not until he went through a long period of torment and defamation. His career/life won't ever be the same.

A simple accusation gets you automatically fired these days, and there's really nothing you can do to defend yourself against it, true or not.

OK, I can understand that. More than that, I think you're right, it happened here as well. I do not blame the women who came forward for that though. And I'm very much afraid that in the end, all these women are discredited for political purposes, as well as they are used for political purposes, 'cause Americans (and everyone, but especially Americans) make everything political.
It's the conservatives cheering for Argento's misdeed and mocking me too. It's gotten political, though it was always just about society and male misbehaviour, not about conservatives or liberals or anything of that sort.

The women that got molested, groped, raped or extorted deserve better than being ridiculed because politics misused the movement. They deserve better than mockery and schadenfreude. I think this is completely misplaced.
Prejudgment is a different issue, and again I agree with you, it's a real concern. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. So that every women coming forward is seen as being part of a bad, wrong movement who should just shut up again like in former times. Wrong conclusion, wrong reaction - says me.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-21-2018, 08:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: Unless you're the POTUS or running to be the Speaker of the House.    

GMDino, king of whattaboutery.  

Quote:All seriousness aside it was inevitable that a woman or two would get caught up in the movement...and that men everywhere would rejoice that now they can say the entire movement is moot and awful.

"Men everywhere"?  It's like you can't help engaging in hyperbole.

Quote:SSF mentioned all the gay Republicans...I see a difference between a movement to encourage people who have been abused or oppressed that ends up having some members that did the oppressing called out of it (metoo) and a movement designed to oppress a group that is being lead by people who are self loathing.

No, I mentioned hypocrites who rail against something in public as the engage in it in private.  There are numerous examples that don't include a specific political party.

Quote:If this is true she will suffer the same fate as others before her (except prominent republicans) and the movement will still have done good.

You mean prominent Republicans like Bill Clinton?  Do you believe his accusers btw?  I don't recall you every answering that question.  It must be difficult to post in a thread about this topic knowing you lack the moral courage to answer this question.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-21-2018, 08:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Agreed.

2. Because it's a toxic movement that promotes burning people at the state of public opinion before any facts, evidence, or due process has a chance.  It might have started off as something intended to be good, but it quickly and irreparably diverted course. Take a look at Chris Hardwick. His ex wrote an angry open letter accusing him of things, and instantly he was crucified in public opinion, lost his jobs, lost his public appearances, got every mention of him wiped from the site he created... only for an independent investigator to later find zero evidence against him. Damage already done though, he got his show back, but not until he went through a long period of torment and defamation. His career/life won't ever be the same.

A simple accusation gets you automatically fired these days, and there's really nothing you can do to defend yourself against it, true or not.

Very well stated and perfectly true.  I personally take a lot of pleasure in seeing pigs like Weinstein get what they richly deserve.  I loathe the idea that a mere accusation is sufficient to destroy a person's life.  It seems we never get it right in this country, we always go from problem to over correction.

[GMDino]

(08-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: GMDino, king of whattaboutery.  

Oh it's not "whataboutism" as it was not other person was personally mentioned...just that a simple accusation automatically gets your fired.  I provided two example where it did not.

Facts always upset those who hate the truth.  Sorry. 

(08-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: "Men everywhere"?  It's like you can't help engaging in hyperbole.

Your selective criticism is so noted.

Yes, men everywhere.  Not "all men".  Men around the internet, on this board, ect.  

(08-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I mentioned hypocrites who rail against something in public as the engage in it in private.  There are numerous examples that don't include a specific political party.

And I mentioned how there is a difference between the two groups since you mentioned one and the thread is about the other. One trying to oppress.  One trying to help those who have been oppressed.  

(08-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You mean prominent Republicans like Bill Clinton? 

Now THAT is whataboutism!

(08-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Do you believe his accusers btw?  I don't recall you every answering that question.  It must be difficult to post in a thread about this topic knowing you lack the moral courage to answer this question.

(08-17-2018, 09:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to your introducing argument from other threads; that's pretty much something you have patented; but it seldom leads to constructive dialog in the current thread. Why not leave those discussions in those threads? 

Thanks for participating!

[Belsnickel]

(08-21-2018, 10:22 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Very well stated and perfectly true.  I personally take a lot of pleasure in seeing pigs like Weinstein get what they richly deserve.  I loathe the idea that a mere accusation is sufficient to destroy a person's life.  It seems we never get it right in this country, we always go from problem to over correction.

Unfortunately, this part is true in many areas. From the #metoo movement to "lock her up!" chants and cries for impeachment, far too many are not willing to wait for all of the evidence to come forth before judging someone guilty in the court of public opinion. It's something we all need to work on around these parts.

[BmorePat87]

I think it's entirely possible to be both supportive of abuse victims and apprehensive to allegations before there's enough evidence.

Unfortunately making light of those victims who came forward by saying you can't throw things at women anymore isn't really productive.

[GMDino]

She denies having a sexual relationship with her accuser.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2018/08/21/asia-argento-strongly-denies-she-had-sex-underage-boy/1051523002/

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Secondly, how this story got released is very interesting:

Quote:The paper said the story was based on an encrypted email the reporter received from an unknown source; it contained documents about the settlement between Argento and Bennett and her lawyer over his demand for compensation, and included a selfie of the two in bed. 

[GMDino]

(08-21-2018, 01:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think it's entirely possible to be both supportive of abuse victims and apprehensive to allegations before there's enough evidence.

Unfortunately making light of those victims who came forward by saying you can't throw things at women anymore isn't really productive.

Eh, I doubt bfine was making fun of the victims as much as he was trying to poke holes in an entire movement because a woman (gasp) has been accused.  It's just a knee jerk reaction to defend "men".  Making light of the victim was just a side effect of the mocking.

[*bfine32*]

(08-21-2018, 01:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: Eh, I doubt bfine was making fun of the victims as much as he was trying to poke holes in an entire movement because a woman (gasp) has been accused.  It's just a knee jerk reaction to defend "men".  Making light of the victim was just a side effect of the mocking.

Thanks for the defense, but I'm pretty sure Pat was talking about Trump, not me.

No defense of Men; Have I done anything to defend Weinstein or any other sexual predator. I actually called this one out for her hypocrisy and apparently that came at the expense of the victim.

Who knows, she may not have done anything; however, as reported, she's worthy of mockery. I think some are just overly hurt that someone they put on a pedestal and claimed to be a hero may be nothing more than a predator herself. Causing some to be overly sensitive.

[fredtoast]

(08-21-2018, 08:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. Agreed.

2. Because it's a toxic movement that promotes burning people at the state of public opinion before any facts, evidence, or due process has a chance.  It might have started off as something intended to be good, but it quickly and irreparably diverted course. Take a look at Chris Hardwick. His ex wrote an angry open letter accusing him of things, and instantly he was crucified in public opinion, lost his jobs, lost his public appearances, got every mention of him wiped from the site he created... only for an independent investigator to later find zero evidence against him. Damage already done though, he got his show back, but not until he went through a long period of torment and defamation. His career/life won't ever be the same.

A simple accusation gets you automatically fired these days, and there's really nothing you can do to defend yourself against it, true or not.

That applies to many crimes.  This is nothing specific to the "me too movement".

If you are accused of stealing from the bank where you work then you are going to lose that job until the investigation is concluded.  Same with allegations of child abuse at a day care.

This is no grounds to dismiss the me too movement.

[Belsnickel]

(08-21-2018, 04:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who knows, she may not have done anything; however, as reported, she's worthy of mockery. I think some are just overly hurt that someone they put on a pedestal and claimed to be a hero may be nothing more than a predator herself. Causing some to be overly sensitive.

I honestly had no idea who she was, but keep on telling yourself whatever you need to to feel better about yourself.

[BmorePat87]

(08-21-2018, 01:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: Eh, I doubt bfine was making fun of the victims as much as he was trying to poke holes in an entire movement because a woman (gasp) has been accused.  It's just a knee jerk reaction to defend "men".  Making light of the victim was just a side effect of the mocking.

Talking about Trump. Sorry, I went back to the start of the thread as I didn't really remember this one. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-21-2018, 05:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I honestly had no idea who she was, but keep on telling yourself whatever you need to to feel better about yourself.

Sure you didn't, but keep on telling yourself whatever yo need to to feel better about yourself.  

[*bfine32*]

(08-21-2018, 05:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I honestly had no idea who she was, but keep on telling yourself whatever you need to to feel better about yourself.

Sure you didn't, but keep on telling yourself whatever yo need to to feel better abut yourself.