Trump phones NRA to tell them he will oppose universal checks that 90% of US supports

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Just read this relatively reasonable article on Politico.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/21/nra-lobbyist-roadmap-gun-reform-227634

He gets some facts wrong, such as alluding to the "gun show loophole" that doesn't actually exist. But overall he's approaching this issue far more rationally than most.

[Benton]

(08-22-2019, 09:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Just read this relatively reasonable article on Politico.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/21/nra-lobbyist-roadmap-gun-reform-227634

He gets some facts wrong, such as alluding to the "gun show loophole" that doesn't actually exist.  But overall he's approaching this issue far more rationally than most.

Eh, his solution is mostly 'make selling illegal guns harder.'

Which, ok. That's a good idea. But the two issues there are: 1 selling illegal guns is already illegal and 2 as someone in this thread mentioned, most firearms used in mass shootings (and I believe the majority of homicides) are purchased legally.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-23-2019, 12:24 AM)Benton Wrote: Eh, his solution is mostly 'make selling illegal guns harder.'

As you're about to say, this is a good thing.  

Quote:Which, ok. That's a good idea. But the two issues there are: 1 selling illegal guns is already illegal and 2 as someone in this thread mentioned, most firearms used in mass shootings (and I believe the majority of homicides) are purchased legally.

Actually most mass shooting firearms are used by their lawful purchasers.  Most guns used in homicides probably aren't.  Seeing as how the significant majority of gun related homicides are criminals killing criminals this is almost certainly not the case.  Mass shootings as most of us define them are a minuscule fraction of gun related homicides.  Laws targeting the law abiding, vast majority, are not going to affect this.

[Benton]

(08-23-2019, 12:35 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As you're about to say, this is a good thing.  


Actually most mass shooting firearms are used by their lawful purchasers.  Most guns used in homicides probably aren't.  Seeing as how the significant majority of gun related homicides are criminals killing criminals this is almost certainly not the case.  Mass shootings as most of us define them are a minuscule fraction of gun related homicides.  Laws targeting the law abiding, vast majority, are not going to affect this.

The estimates I've seen are 70-80percent are illegal guns, as far as homicides go. But, unfortunately, that still takes it back to being a gun availability issue.

One thing you never hear when an officer approaches a suspect is 'hey, you aren't supposed to have that illegal gun. I know this by the flashing yellow sign you're carrying around that says you purchased it illegally.'

The document that allows people to have firearms is the same document that many times prohibits law enforcement from checking if they have a legal firearm.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-23-2019, 01:21 AM)Benton Wrote: The estimates I've seen are 70-80percent are illegal guns, as far as homicides go. But, unfortunately, that still takes it back to being a gun availability issue.

Of course it does, this is a given.  We could have had a zero firearms ownership amendment to our Constitution like Europe.  We don't, for a reason.  Unfortunately all freedoms come with the expectation that some will abuse said freedoms.  In the United States firearms ownership was/is considered one of those freedoms.

Quote:One thing you never hear when an officer approaches a suspect is 'hey, you aren't supposed to have that illegal gun. I know this by the flashing yellow sign you're carrying around that says you purchased it illegally.'

Oh, most definitely.  Much like there isn't a flashing neon sign above every person on probation of parole.  Or a sign that indicates the person is a known a registered gang member,  If you're down for the modern equivalent of the Scarlet Letter let me know, but knowing you from our previous interactions I don't think that's the case.

Quote:The document that allows people to have firearms is the same document that many times prohibits law enforcement from checking if they have a legal firearm.

Again, very true.  Freedom isn't safe.  It's subject to abuse by our less lawfully inclined peers.  The question is, do we subject all of the, majority, law abiding, citizens to restrictions to impede the minority law breakers?  Thankfully the Framers answered this question for us long ago.