Trump refuses to condemn Russian aggression against Ukraine

[GMDino]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/politics/russia-ukraine-trump-silence/index.html

Quote:As world leaders denounced Russia's aggression against Ukraine, President Donald Trump waited more than a day before offering a muted response about the clash, leaving the task of criticizing Moscow to the outgoing US ambassador to the UN.


When asked how he felt about the clash, Trump said, "not good. Not happy about it at all." He seemed reluctant to blame Russia, adding, "we do not like what's happening either way. And hopefully it will get straightened out."


Trump spoke to reporters just days before he is expected to meet with President Vladimir Putin at a G20 meeting in Argentina.


In the 24 hours after Russian ships opened fire on and seized three Ukrainian vessels near Crimea, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a spokesman for British Prime Minister Theresa May, the foreign ministers of Germany, the UK and Canada, European members of the Security Council, including France, Sweden, Poland, the Netherlands and the UK, as well as several US lawmakers expressed grave concern and called for a de-escalation.

During that time, the President and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo remained silent on the serious escalation in tensions between the two countries. After Trump spoke to reporters, a day and a half after the confrontation, Pompeo released a statement expressing "deep concern," condemning Russia and calling for restraint from "both parties."


But it fell to Ambassador Nikki Haley to reprise her role as the administration's leading and toughest voice on Russia, leaving analysts concerned that the White House silence and then Trump's low-key response would be read as encouragement, if not acquiescence.


'He can play Trump'


"If there's not a strong Western response in terms of a statement, but also one that says there will be consequences unless Russia ceases and desists, the Russians may conclude they can get away with this," said 
Steven Pifer, a William J. Perry fellow at Stanford University and expert on Russia, Europe and the former Soviet states.


"It's striking that Washington was silent on this yesterday," said Pifer, a former US ambassador to Ukraine. He added that Trump's restraint does not position him well for the anticipated meeting with Putin.


"It just leaves Putin feeling he can play Trump, whereas a forthright statement might even earn a measure of respect from the Russians," Pifer said. "I don't think the Russians would respect what they're seeing right now out of this administration," he said, referring to the White House and State Department failure to comment promptly.


Franz Sedelmayer, a German security consultant who works to get settlements from the Kremlin for seized assets and has known Putin since the 1990s, said the Russian president is trying to distract from troubles at home, including a falling approval rating and public anger about Putin's pension reforms.


"There's no question in my mind this thing was initiated by Putin," Sedelmayer said. "This comes from the very top. Every time he gets into trouble, he starts a conflict someplace. That's something he wants to do to deflect from the troubles at home."


At the UN, Haley denounced the clash in the Kerch Strait as a "reckless escalation," and called for Russia to immediately "cease its unlawful conduct and respect the navigational rights and freedoms of all states."

Quote:
[/url]Nikki Haley

@nikkihaley




RT @USUN: “In the name of international peace and security, Russia must immediately cease its unlawful conduct and respect the navigational rights and freedoms of all states.”

1,834
11:49 AM - Nov 26, 2018
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"Sunday's outrageous violation of sovereign Ukrainian territory is part of a pattern of Russian behavior that includes the purported annexation of Crimea and abuses against countless Ukrainians in Crimea," Haley told the Security Council in an emergency meeting Monday morning, "as well as stoking a conflict that has taken the lives of more than 10,000 people in eastern Ukraine, and it shows no signs of decreasing."



Haley's comments were hedged with a nod to Trump, who has consistently touted his desire for close ties with Putin. "As my country's President has said many times, the United States would welcome a normal relationship with Russia," Haley said. "But outlaw actions like this one continue to make that impossible."


John Herbst, also a former US ambassador to Ukraine, said that a strong statement from Haley about the situation "probably covers the administration," but acknowledged that her lame duck status -- she leaves the job at the end of the year -- tempers the power of her remarks.


"A senior official who's going to be in office in six months from now would be better," said Herbst, director of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.
Deeply shadowed
Beyond Haley, the State Department's special representative for Ukraine negotiations, Kurt Volker, tweeted a question -- "Russia rams Ukrainian vessel peacefully traveling toward a Ukrainian port. Russia series ships and crew and then accuses Ukraine of provocation???"


Those comments just underscored the lack of a robust response from other quarters of the administration.


Trump's presidency has been overshadowed by a special counsel investigation into possible Russian interference in to the 2016 election and Putin's admission that he wanted Trump to win the presidency. The President also has a long history of being equivocal on Russia's internationally condemned annexation of Crimea, which is central to the clash on Sunday.


The Ukrainian Navy says its ships were planning to enter the Kerch Strait to access the city of Mariupol before they were fired upon by the Russians. The strait runs between the Crimean Peninsula and Russia, and is an important economic lifeline for Ukraine, as it allows ships leaving the port city of Mariupol to access the Black Sea.


But it's also the closest point of access for Russia to Crimea, a peninsula Moscow invaded and annexed in 2014. Trump has been seemingly reluctant to condemn Russia for that act, repeatedly suggesting instead that Crimeans welcomed the invasion or that because many are Russian language speakers they "belong" to Russia.


In June, before his summit with Putin in Helsinki, Finland, Trump was asked if he was going to accept Russia's annexation of the peninsula. "We're going to have to see," the President said. It's still not clear what the two leaders actually discussed.


And after a G7 summit in Canada, also in June, Trump made a series of eyebrow-raising comments about Crimea and Russia, avoiding the word "annexation" and instead referring to "something" that happened.

He blamed Obama for Crimea's annexation, pointed to all the money Russia is spending on the peninsula and suggested that Russia's expulsion from the G8 because of the annexation should be reversed.

"This used to be the G8, not the G7," Trump said in Canada. "And something happened a while ago, where Russia is no longer in. I think it would be an asset to have Russia back in."

He probably doesn't know what happened...plus he has to be careful not to upset his buddy/idol Putin.

[jj22]

Has he ever condemned a Dictator with any genuine disgust?

Like he does our Allies?

[GMDino]

(11-28-2018, 12:51 PM)jj22 Wrote: Has he ever condemned a Dictator with any genuine disgust?

Like he does our Allies?

Nah.  He sees them as "strong".  The "real man" like he thinks he is.

[BmorePat87]

He had to be convinced over the course of days to condemn the KKK and Neo Nazis. He can't condemn someone who had a journalist literally butchered. He ain't ever going to condemn Russia for what they do in the Ukraine.

[Belsnickel]

Just to be fair, Trump threatened to cancel his meeting with Putin. But there isn't much expectation for that to happen.

https://www.apnews.com/17f1ff79b09e411b9b6a85b00afbe618

[GMDino]

(11-28-2018, 01:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just to be fair, Trump threatened to cancel his meeting with Putin. But there isn't much expectation for that to happen.

https://www.apnews.com/17f1ff79b09e411b9b6a85b00afbe618

"Maybe"

"Maybe they were behind the killing, Maybe they weren't"
"Maybe I'll have a meeting, Maybe I won't"
"Maybe...."

He's a dolt.

[Belsnickel]

(11-28-2018, 01:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: "Maybe"

"Maybe they were behind the killing, Maybe they weren't"
"Maybe I'll have a meeting, Maybe I won't"
"Maybe...."

He's a dolt.

He's wishy-washy. He has no internal guide for his actions other than what benefits him the most. That gets a lot greyer when you're POTUS so he doesn't really know what he's doing.

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 01:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: He's wishy-washy. He has no internal guide for his actions other than what benefits him the most. That gets a lot greyer when you're POTUS so he doesn't really know what he's doing.

There is that. He can't seem to fire people personally.

But I think the "maybe . . . Maybe not . . . we'll see" is also a tactic, deliberate ambiguity.

Remember when he first launched his birther claims, he was never definitive. There were always "people" who claimed O was not born in the US and he was just putting the issue out there.  There is no "100% proof" Putin was behind interference in our elections.

This is rather like flipping Cheney's 1% policy (if there is a 1% chance Saddam has WMDs, we cannot take the risk). 

If there is only a 99% chance the CIA is right about Putin or Kashoggin, then we can't take the risk of basing policy on intel.  You don't want to ruin a guy's reputation based on rumor, do you?

"Maybe" he will cancel the Putin meeting. That means, until the meeting, we can't say for sure that he is in Putin's pocket. That is what that "maybe" is about.

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 01:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: "Maybe"

"Maybe they were behind the killing, Maybe they weren't"
"Maybe I'll have a meeting, Maybe I won't"
"Maybe...."

He's a dolt.

Maybe he's a dolt. But maybe he's not. Some people say hes not.  Very smart people.

Have a guy on the phone here who says he is Trump's agent. He insists Trump is DEFINITELY not a dolt. The opposite of a dolt, and the least doltish person there ever was. And women love him.  Claims that was just another failed post by "lyin' Dino."

. . . wait, there's more . . . . are you sure?

Um Dino, just between you and me--do you know where your father was when Kennedy was assassinated?

[GMDino]

(11-28-2018, 08:18 PM)Dill Wrote: Maybe he's a dolt. But maybe he's not. Some people say hes not.  Very smart people.

Have a guy on the phone here who says he is Trump's agent. He insists Trump is DEFINITELY not a dolt. The opposite of a dolt, and the least doltish person there ever was. And women love him.  Claims that was just another failed post by "lyin' Dino."

. . . wait, there's more . . . . are you sure?

Um Dino, just between you and me--do you know where your father was when Kennedy was assassinated?

Actually I do!  LOL!  He was working on his neighbors farm!

[Dill]

(11-28-2018, 08:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: Actually I do!  LOL!  He was working on his neighbors farm!

I'm sure that's what he told you.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Always a no-win with you guys.
I'm sure if he jumped right in on it, you'd be calling him impulsive and he's gonna push the button any day now!!!
As it is, he's being level-headed and waiting for the intel to be correct and you're calling him a wimp.

And because of all of this, you're just creating more Trumpeters.

[Belsnickel]

(11-28-2018, 09:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Always a no-win with you guys.
I'm sure if he jumped right in on it, you'd be calling him impulsive and he's gonna push the button any day now!!!
As it is, he's being level-headed and waiting for the intel to be correct and you're calling him a wimp.

And because of all of this, you're just creating more Trumpeters.

Seriously? He refuses to believe the intel when it is correct. He doesn't believe the experts in his own administration and instead puts his trust in individuals that have shown themselves to be adversarial to the country.

I have a hard time believing this is creating any more Trump supporters.

[Benton]

(11-28-2018, 09:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: As it is, he's being level-headed and waiting for the intel to be correct and you're calling him a wimp.

Eh, Be realistic there. He doesn't listen to experts or Intel, he listens to a handful of people and a couple media sources.

Personally, I don't care what he does. I don't want him being chummy with Russia, but I don't want him intervening in conflicts with other countries. 

[jj22]

(11-28-2018, 09:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Always a no-win with you guys.
I'm sure if he jumped right in on it, you'd be calling him impulsive and he's gonna push the button any day now!!!
As it is, he's being level-headed and waiting for the intel to be correct and you're calling him a wimp.

And because of all of this, you're just creating more Trumpeters.

The Intel lol. You can't be serious.

The American Intel he attacks on behalf of every Dictator on earth? When has he ever sided with America Intel?

Maybe you meant Russian Intel. Cause as we've seen in the past, he's much more prone to state Russian (Saudi, NK etc) talking points over ours.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/29/donald-trump-cohen-plea-adds-scrutiny-putin-meeting-g-20-summit/2120967002/

Quote:President Trump abruptly cancels Vladimir Putin meeting at G-20 summit

BUENOS AIRES – President Donald Trump cancelled a long awaited meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, a stunning decision that he said was because of a skirmish between Russian and Ukrainian ships over the weekend.



But the decision to cancel the Saturday meeting also came hours after his longtime personal attorney, Michael Cohen, pleaded guilty to lying to Congress about a proposed Trump Tower development project in Moscow.


"Based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to Ukraine from Russia, I have decided it would be best for all parties concerned to cancel my previously scheduled meeting in Argentina with President Vladimir Putin," Trump tweeted from Air Force One as he flew to the G-20 summit in Argentina. 


"I look forward to a meaningful Summit again as soon as this situation is resolved!"


Trump's tweet came minutes after he told reporters at the White House that he would "probably" go through with the meeting. The Kremlin had indicated for several days that it believed the meeting would go forward. 

[jj22]

Good. Even if it was forced by his handlers (we'll never know) it was the right move. Now hopefully he doesn't go sneaking and meeting with him in secret again.

[Bengalholic]

(11-28-2018, 01:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: He's wishy-washy. He has no internal guide for his actions other than what benefits him the most. That gets a lot greyer when you're POTUS so he doesn't really know what he's doing.

That's one of the fairest and most accurate, at least IMO, descriptions I've seen of the President.

I'm not much on the whole left versus right stuff. I'm growing more tired of politics in general by the day. 

The one thing that does bother me is having a President that just isn't a good human being - no moral compass, no empathy, no basic decency. Even worse, he seems to goes out of his way to provoke, stir the pot and cause drama. Those are things that middle school drama queens do, not the leader of the free world. 

I honestly don't understand how anyone is still seriously defending him at this point. My dad is lifelong conservative who served 22 years in the Army and 28 years in law enforcement. He voted for Trump. Two years later, he's so frustrated and disappointed in not only what he's seen from Trump, but also the majority of conservatives in congress, that he's seriously considering leaving the Republican party. Never thought I'd see the day.

[Benton]

(11-29-2018, 07:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's one of the fairest and most accurate, at least IMO, descriptions I've seen of the President.

I'm not much on the whole left versus right stuff. I'm growing more tired of politics in general by the day. 

The one thing that does bother me is having a President that just isn't a good human being - no moral compass, no empathy, no basic decency. Even worse, he seems to goes out of his way to provoke, stir the pot and cause drama. Those are things that middle school drama queens do, not the leader of the free world. 

I honestly don't understand how anyone is still seriously defending him at this point. My dad is lifelong conservative who served 22 years in the Army and 28 years in law enforcement. He voted for Trump. Two years later, he's so frustrated and disappointed in not only what he's seen from Trump, but also the majority of conservatives in congress, that he's seriously considering leaving the Republican party. Never thought I'd see the day.

Just saw a story linked on Facebook that the Bundys (the ones who had the recent standoff with the BLM) had spoken out against Trump over the immigration issue. I didn't read the story, but it's interesting.

Trump put the GOP in a weird position. Since Clinton it had been the other party and focused on attack attack attack. They seemed to get the ideal candidate in Trump as nobody before him had been able to attack with such impunity. Now it seems like it may cost them a chunk of voters frustrated with the way things are heading.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-29-2018, 07:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's one of the fairest and most accurate, at least IMO, descriptions I've seen of the President.

I'm not much on the whole left versus right stuff. I'm growing more tired of politics in general by the day. 

The one thing that does bother me is having a President that just isn't a good human being - no moral compass, no empathy, no basic decency. Even worse, he seems to goes out of his way to provoke, stir the pot and cause drama. Those are things that middle school drama queens do, not the leader of the free world. 

I honestly don't understand how anyone is still seriously defending him at this point. My dad is lifelong conservative who served 22 years in the Army and 28 years in law enforcement. He voted for Trump. Two years later, he's so frustrated and disappointed in not only what he's seen from Trump, but also the majority of conservatives in congress, that he's seriously considering leaving the Republican party. Never thought I'd see the day.

To the bolded/underlined: This is where I've been long before the '16 election. And why I refuse to enter many discussions about politics in general. Oh, I will continue my due diligence come election time, and vote for whomever best fits someone who will actually act in favor of the best interests for all citizens. It's been slim pickin's for a long time on that front though.