Trump's Documents Trial

[Dill]

(04-05-2024, 07:48 AM)pally Wrote: Personally, I don’t give a damn about a judges’s political leanings as long as they make timely, law based decisions.  

I realize you have been told differently, but Donald Trump can receive a fair trial from non MAGA judges

My worry is whether he can receive a fair trial from a MAGA judge.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-05-2024, 05:27 PM)pally Wrote: So why aren't you concerned that a judge appointed to the bench by the man whose trial she is supposed to rule over isn't equally if not more conflicted than a judge whose adult family members are politically active?

Or if the political activities of family members prevent a Judge from ruling without bias why aren't you concerned about Clarence Thomas and his insurrectionist wife Ginn

SO far, Cannon hasn't given the appearance of defending Trump. 
She's rejected him 2x in his request for a dismissal. She wants both parties to be clear about their positions so they can proceed based on their sides and counter each other effectively. I don't see the issues with that. 

[*pally*]

(04-06-2024, 01:00 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: SO far, Cannon hasn't given the appearance of defending Trump. 
She's rejected him 2x in his request for a dismissal. She wants both parties to be clear about their positions so they can proceed based on their sides and counter each other effectively. I don't see the issues with that. 

She is slow walking decisions on motions. She still hasn’t set a trial date. Yes, she has ruled a couple of times against Trump but in those cases those decisions were essentially no-brainers. The rulings should have taken days not weeks. Right now she has the prosecution jumped ng through hoops about jury instructions when she hasn’t made crucial decisions on evidence.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-06-2024, 07:18 AM)pally Wrote: She is slow walking decisions on motions.  She still hasn’t set a trial date. Yes, she has ruled a couple of times against Trump but in those cases those decisions were essentially no-brainers.  The rulings should have taken days not weeks.  Right now she has the prosecution jumped ng through hoops about jury instructions when she hasn’t made crucial decisions on evidence.

So you think she should speed thru it and make mistakes? 

[*pally*]

(04-06-2024, 01:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So you think she should speed thru it and make mistakes? 

I think she doesn't have the experience to handle this trial or she doesn't have the skill to handle this trial.  The only other explanation is that she is deliberately blocking movement so she can avoid trying him before November.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-06-2024, 04:04 PM)pally Wrote: I think she doesn't have the experience to handle this trial or she doesn't have the skill to handle this trial.  The only other explanation is that she is deliberately blocking movement so she can avoid trying him before November.

And just who does have the experience to handle this type of case?

[Belsnickel]

(04-06-2024, 01:00 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: SO far, Cannon hasn't given the appearance of defending Trump. 
She's rejected him 2x in his request for a dismissal. She wants both parties to be clear about their positions so they can proceed based on their sides and counter each other effectively. I don't see the issues with that. 

So, not that I think Cannon is a mustache-twirling villain, but refusing the dismissal motions doesn't actually signal she isn't in the bag for him. If she were to dismiss at this stage, that it an appealable decision that Smith can take to the circuit and they would overturn, giving the case to someone else. However, by slow-walking it like she has she isn't making any determinations that are appealable. This is why the SCO pretty much just told her to grant the motion so they could appeal it in their response because her requests for the jury instructions was so outside of the law.

I will be honest, I think this is 50% her being overwhelmed, 30% incompetence, and 20% bias on her part.

[Belsnickel]

(04-06-2024, 05:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And just who does have the experience to handle this type of case?

Someone with more experience. When Trump was indicted and she got the case, it had been about 2.5 years since she received her commission as a judge. She is a relative neophyte on the bench and the turmoil with her clerks isn't going to make it any easier, for sure.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-06-2024, 07:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Someone with more experience. When Trump was indicted and she got the case, it had been about 2.5 years since she received her commission as a judge. She is a relative neophyte on the bench and the turmoil with her clerks isn't going to make it any easier, for sure.

So you mean overall experience as in time spent as a Judge in the courts. I'm ok with that, but this is a first of it's kind, so literally no one has any experience with it.

For the most part, I think the Dems and the media are trying to hurry up this case cause time's not on their side. 

[*pally*]

(04-06-2024, 05:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And just who does have the experience to handle this type of case?

Just about every other judge sitting on the court in the Southern Florida circuit. Most Federal Judges are quite used to complicated cases but she just hasn't the time on the bench to have acquired that experience.  Most people nominated for Federal Judgeships either have extensive academic backgrounds, previous judge experience, or extensive lead trial attorney experience.  She barely met the qualified category just 12 years after passing the bar.  She had never been a judge.  Her main qualification for the position was that she was a loyal member of the Federalist Society.  Now, that doesn't mean she won't be a good judge one day...she needs to cut her teeth on less complex cases first though

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-06-2024, 10:15 PM)pally Wrote: Just about every other judge sitting on the court in the Southern Florida circuit. Most Federal Judges are quite used to complicated cases but she just hasn't the time on the bench to have acquired that experience.  Most people nominated for Federal Judgeships either have extensive academic backgrounds, previous judge experience, or extensive lead trial attorney experience.  She barely met the qualified category just 12 years after passing the bar.  She had never been a judge.  Her main qualification for the position was that she was a loyal member of the Federalist Society.  Now, that doesn't mean she won't be a good judge one day...she needs to cut her teeth on less complex cases first though

That's not how it works. Districts are assigned. There was only 3 Judges that could have done this case and she was one of them.

Maybe the other 2 Judges didn't want it and passed it to the low person on the pole? I know it says blind, but you are blind if you think that there isn't ways around that.


So let's back up even more. 
Why did Smith file in FL vs DC? 
Because a Venue motion to move the case to DC would have eaten up valuable time. So he gambled on Florida, probably thinking his odds of not getting Cannon were in his favor. Lost that one and is now paying the price. Now he's trying to bully her and she's not backing down and the clock is ticking and hitting the critical stage. 

What have I been saying on here all along about taking guys like Trump to court? Have you ducks in a row and don't any make mistakes. Whether she is intentionally or un-intentionally slow playing this case, the fault lies directly with Smith for filing the case in FL. 

I have no idea why he would have wanted to have this case tried in FL (you know it's a Red State right??) and probably half to 2/3rds of the Jurors will be Trump Supporters. 

[Luvnit2]

The only threat to Democracy is by Joe Biden's DOJ attempting to put their political opponent in jail in an election year.

3RD world stuff, but they say Trump is a threat to Democracy. The voters see through the maze, they see Trump's persecution. They don't like it.

[*pally*]

(04-06-2024, 10:46 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That's not how it works. Districts are assigned. There was only 3 Judges that could have done this case and she was one of them.

Maybe the other 2 Judges didn't want it and passed it to the low person on the pole? I know it says blind, but you are blind if you think that there isn't ways around that.


So let's back up even more. 
Why did Smith file in FL vs DC? 
Because a Venue motion to move the case to DC would have eaten up valuable time. So he gambled on Florida, probably thinking his odds of not getting Cannon were in his favor. Lost that one and is now paying the price. Now he's trying to bully her and she's not backing down and the clock is ticking and hitting the critical stage. 

What have I been saying on here all along about taking guys like Trump to court? Have you ducks in a row and don't any make mistakes. Whether she is intentionally or un-intentionally slow playing this case, the fault lies directly with Smith for filing the case in FL. 

I have no idea why he would have wanted to have this case tried in FL (you know it's a Red State right??) and probably half to 2/3rds of the Jurors will be Trump Supporters. 

It was filed in Florida because that is where the charged crimes were committed

And the Chief Judge does have some discretion to override automatic assignments. He could have recused Cannon, for instance, because she was appointed to the bench by Trump, just to avoid the appearance of a conflict

[*pally*]

(04-06-2024, 11:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The only threat to Democracy is by Joe Biden's DOJ attempting to put their political opponent in jail in an election year.

3RD world stuff, but they say Trump is a threat to Democracy. The voters see through the maze, they see Trump's persecution. They don't like it.

No charges have been filed during this election year.

The warrant to search Mar a Lago was in July 2022. He didn’t announce he was running until Nov 2022…he knew he was under investigation when he announced.

Maybe he should stop committing crimes if he isn’t willing to face the music..

And yes, every person who isn’t blinded by Trump’s orange glow is well aware of the fact he is only running again in an attempt to avoid prison

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-07-2024, 01:25 AM)pally Wrote: It was filed in Florida because that is where the charged crimes were committed

And the Chief Judge does have some discretion to override automatic assignments.  He could have recused Cannon, for instance, because she was appointed to the bench by Trump, just to avoid the appearance of a conflict

The documents were taken from DC, a venue motion would have been granted, it just would have taken time to file and get it approved.

Possibly but even an experienced Judge would struggle with this case, it's a one of kind case and involves Classified Docs, which means no Jurors will be able to see those docs in their full form because of lack of security clearance, and the powers that be (Secret Service i think) would have to examine/redact everything to prevent them from being made public, so it's alot of red tape

I"m telling you Jack screwed the pooch filing in FL, especially if you wanted a "favorable" Judge.

[GMDino]

The number of posters on this board that know EXACTLY how things "should have been done" is truly amazing.

And oddly they ALL know that everything is rigged against Trump.

Astounding.

[*pally*]

(04-07-2024, 03:10 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The documents were taken from DC, a venue motion would have been granted, it just would have taken time to file and get it approved.

Possibly but even an experienced Judge would struggle with this case, it's a one of kind case and involves Classified Docs, which means no Jurors will be able to see those docs in their full form because of lack of security clearance, and the powers that be (Secret Service i think) would have to examine/redact everything to prevent them from being made public, so it's alot of red tape

I"m telling you Jack screwed the pooch filing in FL, especially if you wanted a "favorable" Judge.

He wasn’t charged with taking the documents. The crimes that he and his minions are charged with took place in Florida. if he had charged in DC or the case moved there, you all and Trump would be whining about it taking place in a perceived liberal area.

No one but Trump is looking for a so-called favorable judge. We want a fair and competent one.

You think this is the first case brought involving classified documents? It happens enough that there is a whole department in the DoJ , the Litigation Security Office, dedicated to helping attorneys and judges navigate them.

The Secret Service has no role in classifying or declassifying documents

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-07-2024, 08:35 AM)pally Wrote: He wasn’t charged with taking the documents. The crimes that he and his minions are charged with took place in Florida. if he had charged in DC or the case moved there, you all and Trump would be whining about it taking place in a perceived liberal area.

No one but Trump is looking for a so-called favorable judge.  We want a fair and competent one.

You think this is the first case brought involving classified documents? It happens enough that there is a whole department in the DoJ , the Litigation Security Office, dedicated to helping attorneys and judges navigate them.

The Secret Service has no role in classifying or declassifying documents

According to Federal law, it started in DC, even an off chance that they could have filed in NJ because he showed a doc to someone (not the easier route though, i would think). 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3237

OFC they would complain if he was going up against a more liberal judge. Haven't heard him complaining about Cannon yet... LOL

I didn't think it was the Secret Service, but it was the only agency that popped into my head when i blurted it, more likely the CIA? Not sure the specifics but one of the intelligence agencies would also have to involved. They raided him back in Aug 2022, didn't file a case til June/July 2023, they wasted alot of time. Nothing's really changed in that time frame, so why didn't they file with in 3-6 mos? 

Any Judge has to deal with CIPA (Classified Information Proceedings Act), any lawyers and Judge involved will need security clearance, and docs need to be reviewed ahead of time to figure out if they pose a national security threat if the information is released. Either way that's all child's play and takes time.  The bigger picture part is that Trump has multiple cases going on and same lawyers involved on them so the lawyers can play the "we need time to prepare" card. Cannon's hands are tied there:

https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/sites/flsd/files/17-10-17-Internal-Operating-Procedures.pdf

IOP 2.13.00 Court Policy for Scheduling Trials and Calendar Conflicts Arising in the Southern District of Florida In resolving any calendar conflicts among the judges of this district and between judges of this district and state judges, the following procedures and priorities are established: 
(a) Criminal cases shall prevail over civil cases. 
(b) Jury trials shall prevail over non-jury trials. 
© Court of Appeals arguments and hearings shall prevail over trials. 
(d) The case in which the trial date has been first scheduled in writing shall take precedence over any later written or oral order scheduling trial. (e) A trial in progress prevails over those that have not yet begun. 
(f) Circumstances such as cost, number of witnesses and attorneys involved, travel, length of trial, age of case, and other relevant matters may warrant deviation from this policy. Such matters should be resolved through communication between the judges involved. 
(g) Unless precluded by constitutional or statutory considerations, scheduling conflicts of Criminal Justice Act (CJA) attorneys should be given priority during any given calendar. Judges should be sensitive to the competing commitments of a Criminal Justice Act attorney’s caseload absent compelling circumstances which militate against accommodating that attorney’s scheduling request. 
(h) The Court should entertain motions for continuances, timely notices of scheduling conflicts, and/or notices of emergency proceedings in another court, either federal or state, on a timely basis and grant such relief when requested. 



And Trump did put in the request, so they have to work with that. And if you start with (a) and go down the list, he's got a few other Aces in his pocket he can invoke if needed. As i said, even a more seasoned judge would have their hands tied with this case.

If she moves too quickly and doesn't respect the process, she could give Trump an outie in an appeal, I don't think you want that do you?

[*pally*]

The originators of the documents are in charge of their classifications. So depending on which documents Trump stole it could be DOJ, DOD, NSA, CIA, Treasury, State, etc. And yes, while a President can declassify the documents, there are actual procedures that need to occur They are not declassified by thinking it or possessing the documents. There is no information available that indicates that Trump did anything about declassification