Trump: the noise from windmills causes cancer

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 05:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: I have to be completely honest here:  Other than here on this board I haven't seen anyone defend that statement...yet.

Well Mill defended the statement; I simply said he didn't say what the OP stated. 

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 06:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well Mill defended the statement; I simply said he didn't say what the OP stated. 

The words came out of his mouth but he did not say it.

Brilliant.

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 06:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The words came out of his mouth but he did not say it.

Brilliant.

Share with me a quote where Trump says Windmill noise causes cancer. 

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 06:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Share with me a quote where Trump says Windmill noise causes cancer. 

From the OP.

Are you claiming the words never came out of his mouth?

Share with me a quote where he denies it after he said it.

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From the OP.

Are you claiming the words never came out of his mouth?

I am stating Trump never said Windmill noise causes cancer. 

Let's see if I can assist the group by removing the emotion from it and make it a Evidence Based Reading Question one might encounter on an SAT:

Jimmy says: "Other have told me Santa Claus is real"

What can we ascertain from this quote:

A. Jimmy believes Santa is real

B. Jimmy is unsure of Santa's existence

C. Jimmy doesn't believe in Santa Claus

D. The quote does not provide us with the information required to ascertain Jimmy's belief in Santa Claus

E. Both A and C 

[fredtoast]

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread but who is the "they" who said this to Trump?

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 07:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am stating Trump never said Windmill noise causes cancer. 

Let's see if I can assist the group by removing the emotion from it and make it a Evidence Based Reading Question one might encounter on an SAT:

Jimmy says: "Other have told me Santa Claus is real"

What can we ascertain from this quote:

A. Jimmy believes Santa is real

B. Jimmy is unsure of Santa's existence

C. Jimmy doesn't believe in Santa Claus

D. The quote does not provide us with the information required to ascertain Jimmy's belief in Santa Claus

E. Both A and C 

Well in the context of making an argument to support his position, like Trump was doing, this is just citing authority.  It carries more weight when it is claimed a group like "they" or "others" claim something is true instead of just stating it as an unsupported personal opinion.

So in this context the answer is "A".  Jimmy is supporting his position by citing the opinion of others.  Just like your Donald.

If you disagree then please tell me why YOU think Trump made the comment.

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well in the context of making an argument to support his position, like Trump was doing, this is just citing authority.  It carries more weight when it is claimed a group like "they" or "others" claim something is true instead of just stating it as an unsupported personal opinion.

So in this context the answer is "A".  Jimmy is supporting his position by citing the opinion of others.

If you disagree then please tell me why YOU think Trump made the comment.

And you are the one that accuses others of mental gymnastics. 

You put the emotion back in it and most likely why you missed the question. 

But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer; he was merely "citing authority". I take solace in the fact that the whole back and forth was not a waste. 

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer

No.  That is a lie you are using to make a strawman because you don't want to address what I really said.  The words came out of his mouth.  He definitely said it.  Why would I deny he said something that he clearly said?  

The question is "Why?"  I have given my position.  It is clear that Trump opposes wind power.  Everyone knows that.  So he was simply citing authority to bolster his position.  

Now you tell me why YOU think he said it.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You put the emotion back in it and most likely why you missed the question.  

I did not miss the question.  I provided the correct answer.

[hollodero]

(04-04-2019, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You put the emotion back in it and most likely why you missed the question. 

I really don''t intend to disturb that fascinating exchange for long, I'm just curious, wouldn't you agree that this particular bit ("And they say the noise causes cancer, you tell me that one, OK?") is a rather stupid thing to say?

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 07:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  That is a lie you are using to make a strawman because you don't want to address what I really said.  The words came out of his mouth.  He definitely said it.  Why would I deny he said something that he clearly said?  

The question is "Why?"  I have given my position.  It is clear that Trump opposes wind power.  Everyone knows that.  So he was simply citing authority to bolster his position.  

Now you tell me why YOU think he said it.

This is great and I think we're making some real headway. I think I now see the problem and perhaps we can work toward a solution:

Trump says: "And they say the noise causes cancer, you tell me that one, OK?"

Fred only sees: "Noise causes cancer" becomes emotional because he didn't consider the whole sentence uttered; simply the part he wanted to focus on and asserts Trump said "Noise causes Cancer"

bfine says: "But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer; he was merely 'citing authority'"


Fred only sees "But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer" becomes emotional because he didn't consider the whole sentence uttered; simply the part he wanted to focus on, and asserts bfine is lying.

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 07:34 PM)hollodero Wrote: I really don''t intend to disturb that fascinating exchange for long, I'm just curious, wouldn't you agree that this particular bit ("And they say the noise causes cancer, you tell me that one, OK?") is a rather stupid thing to say?

It is fascinating, but I'm taking solace in the fact that we are making progress and could soon have a break through.

Sure it's a rather stupid thing to say. But would you agree with this one particular bit: Trump didn't sat noise causes cancer?

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 07:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is great and I think we're making some real headway. I think I now see the problem and perhaps we can work toward a solution:

Trump says: "And they say the noise causes cancer, you tell me that one, OK?"

Fred only sees: "Noise causes cancer" becomes emotional because he didn't consider the whole sentence uttered; simply the part he wanted to focus on and asserts Trump said "Noise causes Cancer"

bfine says: "But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer; he was merely 'citing authority'"


Fred only sees "But you are admitting he didn't actually say Windmill Noise causes cancer" becomes emotional because he didn't consider the whole sentence uttered; simply the part he wanted to focus on, and asserts bfine is lying.

I absolutely considered the entire sentence.  I even explained WHY he said it in order to back up my position.  If he had just said "I believe the noise causes cancer." it would have sounded more ridiculous.  But by claiming there is a group out there (with some implied authority) who say it he is trying to make it sound more believable.

And for some reason you still refuse to give me your explanation of why he said it.  Wonder why that is? 

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 07:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is fascinating, but I'm taking solace in the fact that we are making progress and could soon have a break through.

There is no break through as long as you keep claiming "The words came out of his mouth but he never said it."

[hollodero]

(04-04-2019, 07:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure it's a rather stupid thing to say. But would you agree with this one particular bit: Trump didn't sat noise causes cancer?

Oh sure, there's no argument. He didn't say "it causes cancer", he said "they say it causes cancer", and I really do not se the importance of that distinction. I guess neither did the OP. Trump's still the one that felt to "repeat" what "they" said, so that's pretty much him saying it.

If I said "They say bfine cheats at fantasy football", I guess you'd feel that actually I was the one calling you a cheater and that me stating "oh, I just casually repeated what some say" is a rather weak defense. It would remain my implication, right? 

Trump implied wind mills could cause cancer, is that statement ok?

[BmorePat87]

(04-04-2019, 08:21 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh sure, there's no argument. He didn't say "it causes cancer", he said "they say it causes cancer", and I really do not se the importance of that distinction. I guess neither did the OP. Trump's still the one that felt to "repeat" what "they" said, so that's pretty much him saying it.

If I said "They say bfine cheats at fantasy football", I guess you'd feel that actually I was the one calling you a cheater and that me stating "oh, I just casually repeated what some say" is a rather weak defense. It would remain my implication, right? 

Trump implied wind mills could cause cancer, is that statement ok?

"Hollodero steals candy. He leaves the toilet seat up. They say he cheats when he plays golf, you tell me that one, ok?" (insert me miming Hollodero playing golf). 

It's pretty clear that I am trying to pass off this lie as a truth, using a made up authoritative backing to suggest someone in the know is saying this thing I completely made up. I'm not asking a question, I am using a rhetorical question to enhance my claim. 

It's sad that someone would spend 4 pages trying to use semantics to deflect away from  the fact that the President made up a ridiculous claim about windmills and is trying to pass it off as factual and supported by some imaginary authoritative source, but that's partisanship. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 08:21 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh sure, there's no argument. He didn't say "it causes cancer", he said "they say it causes cancer", and I really do not se the importance of that distinction. I guess neither did the OP. Trump's still the one that felt to "repeat" what "they" said, so that's pretty much him saying it.

If I said "They say bfine cheats at fantasy football", I guess you'd feel that actually I was the one calling you a cheater and that me stating "oh, I just casually repeated what some say" is a rather weak defense. It would remain my implication, right? 

Trump implied wind mills could cause cancer, is that statement ok?

Where have you been the last 5 pages? 

And I've clearly said he may have suggested it, but he did ask for affirmation of his question. After watching the video of the speech it appears he may have been doing more like what Mills was suggesting and talking tongue in cheek, but who knows.

As to the example it's already been used once when I was called a troll. My question would most likely be who said it, but no, I wouldn't suggest you said it unless you said "bfine cheats at fantasy football", but we know that's not true, it just my outstanding prowess. 

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2019, 08:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: After watching the video of the speech it appears he may have been doing more like what Mills was suggesting and talking tongue in cheek, but who knows.

I know.  I am no rube.  I am smart enough to know exactly what he is doing.  It is one of his oldest tricks


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-lot-of-people-are-saying-how-trump-spreads-conspiracies-and-innuendo/2016/06/13/b21e59de-317e-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?utm_term=.10c9e87fcb61

‘A lot of people are saying . . . ’: How Trump spreads conspiracies and innuendoes


By Jenna Johnson
June 13, 2016

Following the country’s most deadly mass shooting, Donald Trump was asked to explain what he meant when he said President Obama either does not understand radicalized Muslim terrorists or “he gets it better than anybody understands.”

“Well,” Trump said on the “Today Show” Monday morning, “there are a lot of people that think maybe he doesn’t want to get it. A lot of people think maybe he doesn’t want to know about it. I happen to think that he just doesn’t know what he’s doing, but there are many people that think maybe he doesn’t want to get it. He doesn’t want to see what’s really happening. And that could be.”

In other words, Trump was not directly saying that he believes the president sympathizes with the terrorist who killed at least 49 people in an Orlando nightclub. He was implying that a lot of people are saying that. 

Trump frequently couches his most controversial comments this way, which allows him to share a controversial idea, piece of tabloid gossip or conspiracy theory without technically embracing it. If the comment turns out to be popular, Trump will often drop the distancing qualifier — “people think” or “some say.” If the opposite happens, Trump can claim that he never said the thing he is accused of saying, equating it to retweeting someone else’s thoughts on Twitter.

This is particularly true when it comes to Trump’s comments on Islam. For months, the candidate has portrayed Muslims as the leading threat working against the United States and has routinely suggested in a wink-wink fashion that the president might secretly be a follower. 

At a rally in New Hampshire in September, a man in the audience loudly declared President Obama a Muslim and “not even an American,” then asked Trump to get rid of Muslim “training camps.”

“You know, a lot of people are saying that, and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there,” Trump responded. “We’re going to look at that and plenty of other things.”

When it comes to the Iran nuclear deal, Trump has floated a variety of theories as to why the United States got what he views as such a raw deal. During a campaign rally in South Carolina in December, Trump seemed to accuse the U.S. negotiators of not having the country’s best interests in mind.

“Some people say it’s worse than stupidity. There’s something going on that we don’t know about,” Trump said in Hilton Head. “And you almost think — I’m not saying that, and I’m not a conspiracy person. . . . Half the people in this room are saying it. I’m trying to be — you know, I’m just hoping they’re just stupid people, okay?”
Trump’s they-said-it-not-me tactic is also often used when he’s attacking his rivals or their relatives. 

In early January, Trump said that he was not concerned that Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) was born in Canada — but that he had heard from many Republicans who were.

“I’d hate to see something like that get in his way, but a lot of people are talking about it, and I know that even some states are looking at it very strongly, the fact that he was born in Canada and he has had a double passport,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post at the time.

In attacking Hillary and Bill Clinton, Trump indirectly raised questions about one of their close friends, Vince Foster, whose suicide in 1993 has long been a focus of far-right conspiracy theorists who allege Clinton involvement.

“I don’t bring [Foster’s death] up because I don’t know enough to really discuss it,” Trump said in an interview with The Post in May. “I will say there are people who continue to bring it up because they think it was absolutely a murder. I don’t do that because I don’t think it’s fair.”

Still, the fact that Trump even chose to comment on the topic outraged many — including Foster’s sister, who accused Trump of “cynically, crassly and recklessly” insinuating that her brother had been murdered to further his own candidacy. 

When asked about Foster during a news conference in North Dakota soon after, Trump continued to distance himself by attributing the concern to “a lot of people.”

“Somebody asked me the question the other day, and I said that a lot of people are very skeptical as to what happened and how he died,” Trump said. “I know nothing about it. I don’t think it’s something that, frankly, really, unless some evidence to the contrary of what I have seen comes up, I don’t think that it’s something that should be part of the campaign.”

[*bfine32*]

(04-04-2019, 08:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: "Hollodero steals candy. He leaves the toilet seat up. They say he cheats when he plays golf, you tell me that one, ok?" (insert me miming Hollodero playing golf). 

It's pretty clear that I am trying to pass off this lie as a truth, using a made up authoritative backing to suggest someone in the know is saying this thing I completely made up. I'm not asking a question, I am using a rhetorical question to enhance my claim. 

It's sad that someone would spend 4 pages trying to use semantics to deflect away from  the fact that the President made up a ridiculous claim about windmills and is trying to pass it off as factual and supported by some imaginary authoritative source, but that's partisanship. 

Nah, the sad part is someone would start a thread asserting POTUS said something he never said and then the like-minded saying: "It doesn't matter what he said, we know what he meant". It funny when the actual words said to dispute a lie being perpetrated turn into a "he's using semantics".  I'll have to remember that defense.

At least Hollo concedes Trump never uttered the words and Mills suggested the words were said tongue in cheek. Now you and others can concede this or not; It really matters little.