Trumps Afghanastan Plan

[GMDino]

I missed the speech and it's late so I'll look for more tomorrow.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-afghanistan-idUSKCN1B109Q?il=0

Quote:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump opened the door on Monday night to an increase in U.S. troops in Afghanistan as part of a retooled strategy for the region, overcoming his own doubts about America's longest war and vowing "a fight to win."


Trump, in a prime-time televised address at a military base near Washington, said his new approach was aimed at preventing Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for Islamist militants bent on attacking the United States.

Trump, who has repeatedly criticized the Afghanistan strategies of his predecessors, now inherits the same challenges, including a resurgent Taliban and a weak government in Kabul. He is laying the groundwork for greater U.S. involvement without a clear end in sight or providing specific benchmarks for success.


In a speech with few details, Trump did not specify how many more troops would be added, gave no timeline for ending the U.S. presence in Afghanistan, and put pressure on Pakistan, India and NATO allies to step up their own commitment.


But officials said he had signed off on Defense Secretary James Mattis' plans to send about 4,000 more to add to the 8,400 now deployed in Afghanistan.


He warned U.S. support was not open-ended - "our support is not a blank check" - and insisted he would not engage in "nation-building," a practice he has accused his predecessors of doing at huge cost.


"We are not nation-building. We are killing terrorists," he said.


Trump laid out a tougher approach to U.S. policy toward Pakistan. Senior U.S. officials warned he could reduce security assistance for Pakistan unless the nuclear-armed nation cooperates more in preventing militants from using safe havens on its soil.

"We can no longer be silent about Pakistan’s safe havens," Trump said. "Pakistan has much to gain from partnering with our effort in Afghanistan. It has much to lose by continuing to harbor terrorists."

A Pakistani army spokesman said on Monday that Pakistan had taken action against all Islamist militants including the Haqqani network, which is allied to Afghan Taliban insurgents.


"There are no terrorist hideouts in Pakistan. We have operated against all terrorists, including (the) Haqqani network," spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor told a media briefing in Islamabad.
Trump expanded the U.S. military's authority for American armed forces to target militant and criminal networks. He said that U.S.
enemies in Afghanistan "need to know they have nowhere to hide - that no place is beyond the reach of American arms."

"Our troops will fight to win," he added.

PAST SCEPTICISM

The speech came after a months-long review of U.S. policy in which he frequently tangled with his top advisers on the future of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, where Taliban insurgents have been making territorial gains and 2,400 U.S. forces have lost their lives.

The Republican president overcame his own scepticism about the war that began in October 2001 after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. He said repeatedly on the campaign trail last year that the war was too costly in lives and money.

"My original instinct was to pull out," he said in his speech, but added he was convinced by his national security advisers to strengthen the U.S. ability to prevent the Taliban from ousting the U.S.-backed government in Kabul.

Trump's speech came as the president tries to rebound after he was engulfed in controversy for saying both sides were to blame for violence between white supremacists and counter-protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month.

In an allusion to the Charlottesville uproar, Trump said: "We cannot remain a force for peace in the world if we are not at peace with each other."

Trump also said the United States wanted India to help more with Afghanistan, especially in the areas of economic assistance and development.

He made clear his patience had limits in support of the Afghanistan government, saying Kabul needed to increase its cooperation in order to justify a continued American commitment.

[BmorePat87]

Running on opposition to nation building in the Middle East and reversing within his first year.

He's truly a 21st century American President

[NATI BENGALS]

GTFO of the shithole. Quit blowing lives time and money.

Why the **** are we still there.

I was there. We went door to door and took shotguns and one shot rifles because it was all they had. The problem didnt go away. We will not change their minds with occupation.

Waste of fing time. Holy shit give it up.

Its like being mad you cant get a sewer pipe to stay clean

[Bengalzona]

Interesting comments. Particularly regarding Pakistan.

Not sure if it is commonly known or not, but the Pakis created the Taliban. Pakistani intelligence set up the Taliban as a means of exerting a measure of influence and control over Afghanistan once the Soviets left. And by the same token, we can't really base tens of thousands of troops in Afghanistan without the Pakis help. Weird, huh.

And the Pakis are our friends. Except when they are not. For example, when the Vietnam War was going on, the Pakis were our good buddies. But when the Pakis were at war with India in 1971, we didn't feel as close to them. But when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the Pakis were our buds again. But then after the Soviets left, we sort of forgot about them (a lot). Then, in the 1990's, the Pakis (with a little help from North Korea) decided to join the Nuclear Family. And we were like "WTF, dudes?!?!?". We didn't like that too much. But then after 9/11, we traced Osama bin Laden to Afghanistan. So the Pakis were our good buddies again! But then we found out that Osama was hanging out in Pakistan, and we were like"Dudes! That ain't cool!!!".

You know, it's almost like these Pakis are just thinking of themselves and their own interest!

[ballsofsteel]

The flip then the flop.
War is big business. Drumph needs to escalate or start a new war with someone to bring up his plummeting poll numbers. Plus he can pocket some serious coin.

[ballsofsteel]

Do you think if they tied Drumph's hands behind his back he would still be able to talk at the podium?
Does Drumph remind you of Joe Cocker when giving a speech?

[StLucieBengal]

I missed the address but i saw where Lindsey Graham was In favor..... so that pretty much means it's terrible.

[Dill]

(08-22-2017, 01:58 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: You know, it's almost like these Pakis are just thinking of themselves and their own interest!  

LOL that is the problem with all these other countries. They don't understand the priority of US interests.

Hard to make them understand . . . .

[Dill]

(08-21-2017, 11:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: I missed the speech and it's late so I'll look for more tomorrow.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-afghanistan-idUSKCN1B109Q?il=0

I watched it. It was a bit like watching a ping pong match with the back and forth between policy positions.

It clear that Trump, after years saying we should get out now, has reversed that position. But beyond that it is not clear how his policy will differ in practice from Bush's. 

Trump said "No more nation building." But so did Bush, and that appears to be why Afghanistan spun out of control.

But Trump was still talking about building the police force and Army there, and stabilizing the government. That's a little nation building at least to his right wing base.

He was more vocal about Pakistan, claiming no one had called Pakistan on its support for the Taliban. Something will happen if they don't shape up.

After telling us what his moves would be, he reminded us that he would not telegraph his moves. So there will be no drawdown timeline. Help for the Afghan government will be conditional.  Good news for the Taliban at many points.

I am thinking the anti-globalists and Breitbart and Sinclair and Newsmax aren't going to like this speech though.  The generals have convinced Trump that withdrawing from A-stan will likely turn the place into one huge training camp for Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS.  But we would be saving money, right? Putting America first.

Outside of the Israel-Palestine conflict, there is no more complicated political territory on the face of the earth than the Afghanistan, Pakistan, India axis.  I think most Trump supporters would agree that we need a non-politician to come in and sort out this mess, someone with fresh eyes, good "instincts," and no knowledge of government and South Asian history.

[Belsnickel]

(08-22-2017, 10:29 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I missed the address but i saw where Lindsey Graham was In favor..... so that pretty much means it's terrible.

I definitely do not disagree.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Really just need to give the Middle East a big 'ol Middle Finger, and just take our shit and go home. We'd be much better off for it.

[Bengalzona]

(08-22-2017, 01:13 PM)Dill Wrote: After telling us what his moves would be, he reminded us that he would not telegraph his moves.

I've noticed he has a tendency to do that.

[Dill]

(08-22-2017, 06:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Really just need to give the Middle East a big 'ol Middle Finger, and just take our shit and go home. We'd be much better off for it.

ISIS would breath a sigh of relief. That is for sure.

They might even give us a year's rest, using the time to expand their numbers and territorial control before attacking the US and Europe again.

Better to fight them over here.  Cheaper.

[GMDino]

Trump says Afghanistan and Pakistan pose the worst terrorist threat to America. Interesting his travel ban applies to neither country.

— Steven Mazie (@stevenmazie) August 22, 2017

[*Nately120*]

Meh, let's just stay over there forever.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-22-2017, 08:19 PM)Dill Wrote: ISIS would breath a sigh of relief. That is for sure.

They might even give us a year's rest, using the time to expand their numbers and territorial control before attacking the US and Europe again.

Better to fight them over here.  Cheaper.

Let Europe hold them back for awhile without us. 

Maybe then we could actually get some serious help for a change rather than having to pay the vast majority of the monetary and blood cost of fighting them.

Same with North Korea. I am tired of paying to be the unappreciated World Police while everyone talks shit about us and complains the whole time.

I am ready to see a world without US intervention, and a US with 100% focus on improving our citizens lives.

[treee]

(08-22-2017, 10:28 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Trump says Afghanistan and Pakistan pose the worst terrorist threat to America. Interesting his travel ban applies to neither country.

— Steven Mazie (@stevenmazie) August 22, 2017

You'd have better luck herding cats than trying to find any kind of consistency in Trump's policy proclamations.

[GMDino]

(08-22-2017, 11:23 PM)treee Wrote: You'd have better luck herding cats than trying to find any kind of consistency in Trump's policy proclamations.

[Dill]

(08-22-2017, 11:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Let Europe hold them back for awhile without us. 

Maybe then we could actually get some serious help for a change rather than having to pay the vast majority of the monetary and blood cost of fighting them.

Same with North Korea. I am tired of paying to be the unappreciated World Police while everyone talks shit about us and complains the whole time.

I am ready to see a world without US intervention, and a US with 100% focus on improving our citizens lives.

Leonard, actually, the "world" doesn't talk shit about us. North Korea and some folks in Iran do. There is still a hangover from the Bush years, but during Obama's 8 years the US was held in pretty high esteem everywhere. Nor has the US been "unappreciated." Some foreigners do rightly complain of US arrogance though, especially this last year.

Europe does not have the capacity to "hold them back for awhile."  If the US does as you recommend, then we give Syria and half of Iraq back to ISIS and open a whole country to them in Afghanistan.  We give them time to consolidate, spread, expand their outposts in Africa as well. The terror com networks will be abuzz with how the great Satan backed down and is ripe for the picking.

Also, reducing US intervention won't translate directly into helping Americans. We still have a capitalist economy and a Republican controlled government that wants to reduce government spending--except for a military no longer to be used for "interventions."

And frankly, I just don't see how the US can maintain its current level of trade and its perks on the world market if it withdraws from the world and lets the Middle East and Central Asia fly apart. Our GDP will suffer. Unemployment will go up. Citizens' lives will not be improved.