Trumps Immigration Executive Order

[djam]

Didnt Obama put a 6 month ban on people coming in from Iran back in 2010 or 11? Chuck Schumer once suggested a travel ban from terror-linked countries would be a good idea.

My point is, they dont really care either way. They go in the direction to oppose their opposition and to please their donors and thats all. Its just soundbites. If you believe that people like Obama and Schumer really actually care about the individual people who have become refugee's, then you've been drinking the political koolaid waaaaaaayyyyy too long lol.

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 10:57 AM)djam Wrote: Didnt Obama put a 6 month ban on people coming in from Iran back in 2010 or 11? Chuck Schumer once suggested a travel ban from terror-linked countries would be a good idea.

My point is, they dont really care either way. They go in the direction to oppose their opposition and to please their donors and thats all. Its just soundbites. If you believe that people like Obama and Schumer really actually care about the individual people who have become refugee's, then you've been drinking the political koolaid waaaaaaayyyyy too long lol.

He put a slow down on visa application approvals as a result of an event involving two Iraqis. 

Trump is that kid who didn't study so he tries to cheat off the smart kid next to him but the teacher gave out two versions of the test.

[Belsnickel]

So, the news broke yesterday that staffers for the House Judiciary Committee had been working on this EO for weeks. The big problem is, though, that they never told their bosses. The chair of the HJC, My friend the spineless weasel Bob Goodlatte, was never informed that his staffers were working with the administration in this way.

Now, this demonstrates two things. One, the way his staffers think of him (not very highly), and two, the way the administration thinks of him (also not very highly). Since up to this point he has been nothing but a weasley sycophant to the Trump administration, this is a bit of a moment for him. This is a disrespectful action towards Goodlatte and he is now going to have to make a big decision as to his reaction. Anyone with dignity would fire the staffers that did this and wish them luck on their new jobs in the White House. But what then? I mean, Goodlatte has, in theory, political capital. He will lose a lot of standing if he does nothing in response. This is going to be an interesting development.

[djam]

(01-31-2017, 11:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: He put a slow down on visa application approvals as a result of an event involving two Iraqis. 

Trump is that kid who didn't study so he tries to cheat off the smart kid next to him but the teacher gave out two versions of the test.

Well, I dont really agree with that analogy. Its like your trying to paint Trump as stupid. Honestly I think it takes more intelligence to accomplish what Trump has in his life than any other president in my lifetime. I mean the man graduated at the top of his class at one of the hardest and most prestigious business schools in the world. He's built an empire that started with 1 middle class apartment building. He has legit proof that he knows how to create jobs and wealth. What did Obama do? Bush? Clinton? They are a bunch of hackjob lawyers who havent done anything to contribute to anything except carry out the will of their sponsors. 

Its always funny to me, seeing people like myself, and you, judging intelligence of people who we havent even really got a clue about behind the scenes. Especially when those people have accomplished more than we ever will or could dream of. It makes us all look like White Goodman at the end of Dodgeball, sitting on his couch, suffing his face, cussing at the TV.... "fkn TRUMP!"  --I see a lot of that going on in America right now. Its kind of funny. 

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 11:26 AM)djam Wrote: Well, I dont really agree with that analogy. Its like your trying to paint Trump as stupid. Honestly I think it takes more intelligence to accomplish what Trump has in his life than any other president in my lifetime. I mean the man graduated at the top of his class at one of the hardest and most prestigious business schools in the world. He's built an empire that started with 1 middle class apartment building. He has legit proof that he knows how to create jobs and wealth. What did Obama do? Bush? Clinton? They are a bunch of hackjob lawyers who havent done anything to contribute to anything except carry out the will of their sponsors. 

Its always funny to me, seeing people like myself, and you, judging intelligence of people who we havent even really got a clue about behind the scenes. Especially when those people have accomplished more than we ever will or could dream of. It makes us all look like White Goodman at the end of Dodgeball, sitting on his couch, suffing his face, cussing at the TV.... "fkn TRUMP!"  --I see a lot of that going on in America right now. Its kind of funny. 

He tried to base what he did off what Obama did.  Wasn't the same at all.

He's not "stupid" he just doesn't think.  He hires people to think for him.

[djam]

(01-31-2017, 11:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: He tried to base what he did off what Obama did.  Wasn't the same at all.

He's not "stupid" he just doesn't think.  He hires people to think for him.

I think what he thinks is that when terror strikes and lives are lost, its a terrible thing. If you look at surveys and polls, it shows over half the country, people from both parties support a temporary immigration ban until we have better vetting in place. We dont want a bunch of repeats of Orlando and San Bernadino, etc. Nothing is perfect. War and terror are a fact of life. To sit back and do nothing about the obvious is what is really actually stupid in this situation. Its all too easy for people who havent lost loved ones in these attacks to sit back and take a lack stance on this. But if a persons own child or relative or close friend were killed in any of the numerous attacks we've had here over the years, most people would feel a big change then. Its stupid and senseless to allow these terrorist such easy access to commit murder. 

And if people want to take in refugee's, then it should be on them to move some of them into their houses and let them live there with family. It shouldnt be forced on people via government/taxes. If these rich celebrities would put down their twitter hashtags, take some of their fortunes and invest it in actually helping these people, it might actually make a difference. The government dropping them off by the busload in random places throughout the country is overreaching though, and honestly pretty flat out stupid lol. 

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 11:49 AM)djam Wrote: I think what he thinks is that when terror strikes and lives are lost, its a terrible thing. If you look at surveys and polls, it shows over half the country, people from both parties support a temporary immigration ban until we have better vetting in place. We dont want a bunch of repeats of Orlando and San Bernadino, etc. Nothing is perfect. War and terror are a fact of life. To sit back and do nothing about the obvious is what is really actually stupid in this situation. Its all too easy for people who havent lost loved ones in these attacks to sit back and take a lack stance on this. But if a persons own child or relative or close friend were killed in any of the numerous attacks we've had here over the years, most people would feel a big change then. Its stupid and senseless to allow these terrorist such easy access to commit murder. 

And if people want to take in refugee's, then it should be on them to move some of them into their houses and let them live there with family. It shouldnt be forced on people via government/taxes. If these rich celebrities would put down their twitter hashtags, take some of their fortunes and invest it in actually helping these people, it might actually make a difference. The government dropping them off by the busload in random places throughout the country is overreaching, and honestly pretty flat out stupid lol. 

Everyone things terrorist attacks are terrible.

Most people don't even know how we vet now so they want more...despite no refugees being involved in terrorist attacks in the US.

The 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.  Saudi Arabia is not part of the travel ban.

See it's just using fear to ban people because...fear.

[Bengalzona]

(01-31-2017, 10:46 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I should probably point out that virtually everything you wrote ^ is unsubstantiated, sensationalist, and untrue. If this is where you're at in terms of understanding "many people" in the US I suggest you get away from behind your PC or phone and go out and meet people different than yourself rather than read BS online. And don't come back at me with the notion that you already have or "know lots of different people". You clearly don't.

With such narrow views of the world and the country you live in it's no wonder a lot of you guys have the opinions you have. Maybe instead of squawking back and forth to people who parrot your views go try and open your ears and listen to others. The hen house some of you guys hang out in has so much chicken poop in it that's it's clogged up your ears.

I have spoken to many many many Christians, Muslims, people from the South, Dems, GOP, non-religious people, rich, poor, different ages and on and on about subjects such as this throughout the entire election process and nobody has once even hinted at kicking Muslims out of the US, internment camps, etc. I have deliberately brought that up to gauge public opinion and every single person and group I have spoken with has immediately dismissed it as a horrible idea, and un-American. It's a knee-jerk panic reaction of the uneducated and scared. Those people will be looking for and assuming the worst no matter what is thrown out there. This doesn't mean that racists and bigots don't exist in America. There are a few, yes. But not very many in terms of % of the US population. But to use the words "many people" is just so so absurd. Get some actual real life perspective.

I got a better idea. How about you start opening your eyes and ears and get some "real life" perspective.

Or perhaps there is a reason you don't do that....

[djam]

(01-31-2017, 11:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: Everyone things terrorist attacks are terrible.

Most people don't even know how we vet now so they want more...despite no refugees being involved in terrorist attacks in the US.

The 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.  Saudi Arabia is not part of the travel ban.

See it's just using fear to ban people because...fear.

No its not, its called protecting our borders and our people from senseless attacks. It's a very basic form of government actually. Its one of the very first jobs they are supposed to do lol. I'm sorry that your emotions have let that become a civil rights issue for you, but thats not anyone else's fault. You can be sad over it all you want --you've obviously not traveled abroad very much. But the bottom line is that they are going to try to fix it, and we will probably, down the road of course, get a very good look at which philosophy is most effective at saving the needless loss of life. Perhaps we could revisit this topic when there is real evidence to make an actual analogy.

[Dill]

(01-31-2017, 10:46 AM)PDub80 Wrote: With such narrow views of the world and the country you live in it's no wonder a lot of you guys have the opinions you have. Maybe instead of squawking back and forth to people who parrot your views go try and open your ears and listen to others. The hen house some of you guys hang out in has so much chicken poop in it that's it's clogged up your ears.

I have spoken to many many many Christians, Muslims, people from the South, Dems, GOP, non-religious people, rich, poor, different ages and on and on about subjects such as this throughout the entire election process and nobody has once even hinted at kicking Muslims out of the US, internment camps, etc. I have deliberately brought that up to gauge public opinion and every single person and group I have spoken with has immediately dismissed it as a horrible idea, and un-American. It's a knee-jerk panic reaction of the uneducated and scared. Those people will be looking for and assuming the worst no matter what is thrown out there. This doesn't mean that racists and bigots don't exist in America. There are a few, yes. But not very many in terms of % of the US population. But to use the words "many people" is just so so absurd. Get some actual real life perspective.

Is it ok to use scientific polls and election results?

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 12:00 PM)djam Wrote: No its not, its called protecting our borders and our people from senseless attacks. It's a very basic form of government actually. Its one of the very first jobs they are supposed to do lol. I'm sorry that your emotions have let that become a civil rights issue for you, but thats not anyone else's fault. You can be sad over it all you want --you've obviously not traveled abroad very much. But the bottom line is that they are going to try to fix it, and we will probably, down the road of course, get a very good look at which philosophy is most effective at saving the needless loss of life. Perhaps we could revisit this topic when there is real evidence to make an actual analogy.

His order "protects our borders" by banning people from countries that have never had a refugee attack us, but allows them from places where terrorists HAVE attacked us.

I don't believe that these refugees have "civil rights" in the US.  I just think he went too far based on some sort of misguided understanding of the world and wanting to prove his base that he is tough and a man of his word.

Sadly he didn't even do that right.

[Vas Deferens]

amusing when someone who uses 'lol' in abundance calls others 'emotional'

Child please.

[*bfine32*]

(01-31-2017, 11:58 AM)Bengalzona Wrote:















I got a better idea. How about you start opening your eyes and ears and get some "real life" perspective.

Or perhaps there is a reason you don't do that....

Did Dino hack your account?

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did Dino hack your account?

Gotta admit...that WAS a great post.  Thanks.

[Bengalzona]

(01-31-2017, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did Dino hack your account?

No. I was just told that my claim that there are many people in this country that want a full-on Muslim ban was "unsubstantiated, sensationalist, and untrue".

For the record, many does not necessarily equate to most. In fact, in a nation of 300.000.000 people, 1% of the population (3,000,000) would generally be sufficient to constitute "many" in my mind.

BTW- My unstated point in the original post was to suggest that the administration is responding to cry from a large group within our society. It was not to condemn the administration for that response nor to complain about their response.

[djam]

(01-31-2017, 12:22 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: amusing when someone who uses 'lol' in abundance calls others 'emotional'

Child please.

Good one Katie, you really owned me. 


GMDino,
US Civil Rights is meant for its citizens. There is a legal process to become a citizen and then they can have civil rights. If one can argue that our civil rights stretches across borders to refugees form other countries, then one can argue that so can our other laws, which is total crap. There is nothing wrong with caring for those people and doing something to help them, but government taking them in via US taxpayers is flat out stupid. If you want to help, nobody is stopping you. Send some of your hard earned money to one of the very many non profits designed to help them. Nobody is stopping you. It would be very nobel actually. 

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 12:00 PM)djam Wrote: No its not, its called protecting our borders and our people from senseless attacks. It's a very basic form of government actually. Its one of the very first jobs they are supposed to do lol. I'm sorry that your emotions have let that become a civil rights issue for you, but thats not anyone else's fault. You can be sad over it all you want --you've obviously not traveled abroad very much. But the bottom line is that they are going to try to fix it, and we will probably, down the road of course, get a very good look at which philosophy is most effective at saving the needless loss of life. Perhaps we could revisit this topic when there is real evidence to make an actual analogy.

(01-31-2017, 12:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: His order "protects our borders" by banning people from countries that have never had a refugee attack us, but allows them from places where terrorists HAVE attacked us.

I don't believe that these refugees have "civil rights" in the US.  I just think he went too far based on some sort of misguided understanding of the world and wanting to prove his base that he is tough and a man of his word.

Sadly he didn't even do that right.

(01-31-2017, 12:32 PM)djam Wrote: Good one Katie, you really owned me. 


GMDino,
US Civil Rights is meant for its citizens. There is a legal process to become a citizen and then they can have civil rights. If one can argue that our civil rights stretches across borders to refugees form other countries, then one can argue that so can our other laws, which is total crap. There is nothing wrong with caring for those people and doing something to help them, but government taking them in via US taxpayers is flat out stupid. If you want to help, nobody is stopping you. Send some of your hard earned money to one of the very many non profits designed to help them. Nobody is stopping you. It would be very nobel actually. 

You're arguing something I never said.

[djam]

(01-31-2017, 12:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: You're arguing something I never said.

Sorry, I got mixed up trying to do a double quote and misread it. 

My personal take on refugee's is that if I were a Syrian refugee, I would personally not want flown to America and then bussed and dropped off at a shelter in Cornhole Iowa or whatever. I would not be mad at Americans if they didnt want me. I would be mad at whoever is responsible for making me flee my homeland and I would want to stay there or close by. Thats just me tho. Everyone is different, which is why its not the Governments job to get too far involved imo. Nobody will ever really agree on it.

[PDub80]

(01-31-2017, 12:31 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: No. I was just told that my claim that there are many people in this country that want a full-on Muslim ban was "unsubstantiated, sensationalist, and untrue".

For the record, many does not necessarily equate to most. In fact, in a nation of 300.000.000 people, 1% of the population (3,000,000) would generally be sufficient to constitute "many" in my mind.

BTW- My unstated point in the original post was to suggest that the administration is responding to cry from a large group within our society. It was not to condemn the administration for that response nor to complain about their response.

1% of anything is not many in the sense you were implying. A gross minority of anything is not many in the sense you were implying. Many was an ignorant, sensationalist use of the word in the sense you were implying.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1TIGY_enUS721US721&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=many+definition

He was elected by a large group of many, yes. To point at that group as the "many" who want Muslims kicked out of the US, are racist, xenophobic etc. etc. etc. is unsubstantiated, sensationalist, and untrue.

[GMDino]

(01-31-2017, 12:42 PM)djam Wrote: Sorry, I got mixed up trying to do a double quote and misread it. 

My personal take on refugee's is that if I were a Syrian refugee, I would personally not want flown to America and then bussed and dropped off at a shelter in Cornhole Iowa or whatever. I would not be mad at Americans if they didnt want me. I would be mad at whoever is responsible for making me flee my homeland and I would want to stay there or close by. Thats just me tho. Everyone is different, which is why its not the Governments job to get too far involved imo. Nobody will ever really agree on it.

Is it not possible to be mad at both?

Or to be mad that one has to flee their homes and not happy with where they end up.