Trumps wall

[Benton]

(01-08-2017, 06:49 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ahh an anti-Semite, how refreshing.


We won't need more per mile than they use. We just have more miles to cover.  


For thise saying hire more agents, we already have 9.5 agents per mile on the payroll, and we've seen hiw ineffective they are. A wall with modern technology will increase their effectiveness. 


Ok so we will need to beef up marintine security. We already have customs for incoming shipments, might beef them up as well. 

just the basic wall is $25 billion.

what's the price tag on the high tech wall? And what will it do to stop companies like Tyson from bringing over truckloads of workers?

[Vas Deferens]

(01-08-2017, 10:40 PM)jason Wrote: Palestinians are also Semitic people.

Good point Jason. Looking forward to mikes take.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-08-2017, 08:41 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: what does my condemnation of isreal's apartheid state have to do with my views on judaism?  not seeing the connection there.  you said they have some sort of tunnel technology I merely asked the total milage across which this technology is deployed.  instead of answering the question, you stooped to deflecting by way of character assassination.  please feel free to get back to me if you have any relevant information to the question posed.  I suspect you have none.

quick follow up since you apparently have a knack for this sort of thing: are the jewish residents of isreal who oppose the settlements and current state's handling of affairs with palestine also 'anti-semites'?

Sorry snowflake, didn't realize labeling you would upset you.
I don't hear you bitching about Egypt protecting their borders in the contested areas, only Israelis. Hasn't Egypt been flooding the Gaza tunnels recently? They have even put up some underground fencing to prevent more tunnels.

And again, calling Israel an "illegal Apartheid State" is a misuse of a Label from Left.

For one: Israel is not an apartheid state.
Everyone living in Israel has equal rights. If it wasn't, then why do you have people like Salim Joubran (a Christian Arab) serving on the Israeli Supreme Court? They also have Arabs occupying Senior Positions in the Police Force and the Knesset (Arabs currently hold 10 seats). All Arabs (including women) are allowed to vote in Israel. Arab Majali Wahabi was an acting President (about 10 years ago) while the current President was under investigation and remained until the next Election. Then that same President who was under investigation was sentenced by George Karra (an Arab Judge).

There is no educational or separate amenities for Arabs/Israelis everyone is treated equally hospitals, workplace and education. In fact, incitement of racism is a Criminal Offense in Israel.

Arabs in Israel have more fundamental rights than they do in most Middle Eastern Countries (definitely includes women).

The Non-Whites in South Africa had none of that, they weren't allowed to vote, went to special schools, had separate amenities, were not allowed to hold any positions of power etc etc. That is a true "Apartheid State". 

So to claim that Israel is an "apartheid state" is a complete mis-use of the true definition of the label and I am calling you an anti-Semite because of your view. If you don't like it, grow thicker skin. I put up with being called a homophobe, bigot, islamphobe etc even when it's not true, so deal with it.

Now as to the Illegal part of trying to occupy the lands gained from the 6 day war. Every country expands via "jus ad bellum", Israel did strike first, but they were provoked by Egypt. who breached a cease-fire and closed the Israeli Shipping access to the Straits of Tiran. To the victor go the Spoils.

The US was built specifically on Conquest, should we go back to territorial maps dated in 1700's?

I hate getting off topic. So to bring it back around.

I have no idea how much tunneling technology is needed per mile, as far as I can tell, this information has not been released to the public. If you have information stating otherwise, please feel free to share. Also as far as I can tell there is about 181 miles of wall that Israel monitors, and I could very well be wrong because I don't follow them as closely as I do the US.

[Benton]

(01-09-2017, 04:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sorry snowflake, didn't realize labeling you would upset you.
I don't hear you bitching about Egypt protecting their borders in the contested areas, only Israelis. Hasn't Egypt been flooding the Gaza tunnels recently? They have even put up some underground fencing to prevent more tunnels.

And again, calling Israel an "illegal Apartheid State" is a misuse of a Label from Left.

For one: Israel is not an apartheid state.
Everyone living in Israel has equal rights. If it wasn't, then why do you have people like Salim Joubran (a Christian Arab) serving on the Israeli Supreme Court? They also have Arabs occupying Senior Positions in the Police Force and the Knesset (Arabs currently hold 10 seats). All Arabs (including women) are allowed to vote in Israel. Arab Majali Wahabi was an acting President (about 10 years ago) while the current President was under investigation and remained until the next Election. Then that same President who was under investigation was sentenced by George Karra (an Arab Judge).

There is no educational or separate amenities for Arabs/Israelis everyone is treated equally hospitals, workplace and education. In fact, incitement of racism is a Criminal Offense in Israel.

Arabs in Israel have more fundamental rights than they do in most Middle Eastern Countries (definitely includes women).

The Non-Whites in South Africa had none of that, they weren't allowed to vote, went to special schools, had separate amenities, were not allowed to hold any positions of power etc etc. That is a true "Apartheid State". 

So to claim that Israel is an "apartheid state" is a complete mis-use of the true definition of the label and I am calling you an anti-Semite because of your view. If you don't like it, grow thicker skin. I put up with being called a homophobe, bigot, islamphobe etc even when it's not true, so deal with it.

Now as to the Illegal part of trying to occupy the lands gained from the 6 day war. Every country expands via "jus ad bellum", Israel did strike first, but they were provoked by Egypt. who breached a cease-fire and closed the Israeli Shipping access to the Straits of Tiran. To the victor go the Spoils.

The US was built specifically on Conquest, should we go back to territorial maps dated in 1700's?

I hate getting off topic. So to bring it back around.

I have no idea how much tunneling technology is needed per mile, as far as I can tell, this information has not been released to the public. If you have information stating otherwise, please feel free to share. Also as far as I can tell there is about 181 miles of wall that Israel monitors, and I could very well be wrong because I don't follow them as closely as I do the US.

Not finding a lot on what it would cost, but did come across this article from last year.

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/05/israeli-company-that-helped-build-gazas-wall-is-less-sure-about-donald-trumps/

Quote:The U.S. government is hardly unfamiliar with these techniques. Many, if not all, are already in use in some capacity. But a massive, fairly recent effort to use them to patrol more of the border and prevent unauthorized entry resulted in an epic waste of money.

In 2005, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) started the Secure Border Initiative (SBI), aiming to expand the use of fencing and virtual detection to block undocumented immigration.
A multi-billion contract with Boeing called for a system called SBINet to control a network of cameras and sensors intended to identify unauthorized entry and alert authorities.
During initial tests, the system was repeatedly triggered in error by things like rain. A 2010 Government Accountability Office report noted that “since March 2008, the number of new SBInet defects has increased faster than the number of defects that have been fixed, which is not a trend that is indicative of a maturing system.” Finally, in 2011, after a billion dollars had already been spent, DHS axed the program altogether.

Which reminded me of "SkyNet" or "SpyNet" as some people were calling it back when we tried it before.

But if at first you don't succeed, spend another billion.

[Vas Deferens]

(01-09-2017, 04:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sorry snowflake, didn't realize labeling you would upset you.

This kind of crap really devalues your point, FYI.  I could really care less what you call me on these boards, but I'm sure as hell going to point it out when someones rebuttals employ ad hominem as often as yours.  

Quote:I don't hear you bitching about Egypt protecting their borders in the contested areas, only Israelis. Hasn't Egypt been flooding the Gaza tunnels recently? They have even put up some underground fencing to prevent more tunnels.

When were we talking about Egypt?  

Quote:And again, calling Israel an "illegal Apartheid State" is a misuse of a Label from Left.


For one: Israel is not an apartheid state.
Everyone living in Israel has equal rights. If it wasn't, then why do you have people like Salim Joubran (a Christian Arab) serving on the Israeli Supreme Court? They also have Arabs occupying Senior Positions in the Police Force and the Knesset (Arabs currently hold 10 seats). All Arabs (including women) are allowed to vote in Israel. Arab Majali Wahabi was an acting President (about 10 years ago) while the current President was under investigation and remained until the next Election. Then that same President who was under investigation was sentenced by George Karra (an Arab Judge).

Everyone living in israel?  You're telling me you honestly believe that Palestinians living in the West Bank have the same rights as zionist settlers?  Why then is there a distinction between 'jewish nationals' (1950 Law of Return) and 'citizens of israel'?  

Quote:There is no educational or separate amenities for Arabs/Israelis everyone is treated equally hospitals, workplace and education. In fact, incitement of racism is a Criminal Offense in Israel.


Arabs in Israel have more fundamental rights than they do in most Middle Eastern Countries (definitely includes women).

The Non-Whites in South Africa had none of that, they weren't allowed to vote, went to special schools, had separate amenities, were not allowed to hold any positions of power etc etc. That is a true "Apartheid State". 

So to claim that Israel is an "apartheid state" is a complete mis-use of the true definition of the label ....[ctd]

I'm assuming your 'true definition' of apartheid only includes that which took place in south africa.  You may be surprised to know that many words evolve over time as they are utilized and applied to different situations.  Try this one out for size:

Quote:ICSPCA definition of the crime of apartheid[edit] A

Quote:International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid,
Article II[1]

For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

1. Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person
   
   1. By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
   2. By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
   3. By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;
      
2. Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;
3. Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognised trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;
4. Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettosfor the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;
5. Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;
6. Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.
   
   

Quote:... and I am calling you an anti-Semite because of your view. If you don't like it, grow thicker skin. I put up with being called a homophobe, bigot, islamphobe etc even when it's not true, so deal with it.

So you're calling me an anit-semite because I believe that israel (a country) committing criminal acts in the eyes of international law?  I ask you again, what does that have to do with my view of jews or judaism specifically?  I could care less who is oppressing who and what color boogieman their parents taught them to fear.  My contention is not with the religion of the player, but with which side of the oppression and atrocities they lie.  

I'm led to believe you're labeled a homophobic bigot for far more justifiable reasons.

Quote:Now as to the Illegal part of trying to occupy the lands gained from the 6 day war. Every country expands via "jus ad bellum", Israel did strike first, but they were provoked by Egypt. who breached a cease-fire and closed the Israeli Shipping access to the Straits of Tiran. To the victor go the Spoils.

The US was built specifically on Conquest, should we go back to territorial maps dated in 1700's?

So you would be ok with someone walking into your home today and telling you and your family to leave within 24 hours?  We're well beyond the 6 day war buddy.  Settlers are taking over lands to this day.  

Quote:I hate getting off topic. So to bring it back around.

I have no idea how much tunneling technology is needed per mile, as far as I can tell, this information has not been released to the public. If you have information stating otherwise, please feel free to share. Also as far as I can tell there is about 181 miles of wall that Israel monitors, and I could very well be wrong because I don't follow them as closely as I do the US.

Yes.  Lets get back on topic.  I wouldn't have the stomach to stick up for policies which deny sick children life saving medicines either.  One of the reasons its hard to pinpoint a milage is that it is constantly growing.  That should say something in and of itself to any level headed individual.  

Regardless, lets take your 181 as an example.  Using your logic, we would expend 10X on our southern wall.  I believe there is still SOME manner of percolation under these walls, correct?  If so, we could then go ahead and 10X that leakage as well theoretically.


Edit: I misspelled 'israel' multiple times. Obviously because I'm an anti Semite.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-09-2017, 09:00 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: This kind of crap really devalues your point, FYI.  I could really care less what you call me on these boards, but I'm sure as hell going to point it out when someones rebuttals employ ad hominem as often as yours.  



Yes.  Lets get back on topic.  I wouldn't have the stomach to stick up for policies which deny sick children life saving medicines either.  One of the reasons its hard to pinpoint a milage is that it is constantly growing.  That should say something in and of itself to any level headed individual.  

Regardless, lets take your 181 as an example.  Using your logic, we would expend 10X on our southern wall.  I believe there is still SOME manner of percolation under these walls, correct?  If so, we could then go ahead and 10X that leakage as well theoretically.


Edit:  I misspelled 'israel' multiple times.  Obviously because I'm an anti Semite.

Hilarious, I rarely ever engage in Ad Hominem attacks, unless responding to one directed at me. I tend to be one of the few that tries to stick to the topic, and usually ignore the insults directed at me.

But for some weird reason, your post set me off.
Maybe I'm still pissed at Obama for throwing Israel under the bus, and pissing off some of our best allies during his term.

10 times leakage?
so if we are getting about 500k illegals annually, and we have a 10% leakage, then that means only 50k are actually getting in annually? Is that the leakage you are referring to?

[GMDino]

(01-10-2017, 03:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: .
Maybe I'm still pissed at Obama for throwing Israel under the bus, and pissing off some of our best allies during his term.

I'm sure the billions of dollars softened the blow.

I do wonder though:  Does buddying up with Russia NOT piss off some of our best allies?

[Belsnickel]

(01-10-2017, 03:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm sure the billions of dollars softened the blow.

I do wonder though:  Does buddying up with Russia NOT piss off some of our best allies?

I'm not sure how it was throwing them under the bus, anyway. The whole world knows they are building illegal settlements, including Israel, and it's not like we are building them and blaming Israel for it.

[*Nately120*]

(01-07-2017, 02:14 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Lots of Obama people in here!

I just assumed Republicans were too busy pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, giving people jobs, and using their guns to successfully shoot criminals to post on a message board.

[HarleyDog]

(01-10-2017, 07:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I just assumed Republicans were too busy pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, giving people jobs, and using their guns to successfully shoot criminals to post on a message board.

I'm not a republican.

[*Nately120*]

(01-10-2017, 09:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm not a republican.

Nor am I.  Got any change?

[HarleyDog]

(01-10-2017, 09:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Nor am I.  Got any change?

I have beer. Let's sit and have several and not talk about anything but sports, humor and the best dogs we've ever had.

[*Nately120*]

(01-10-2017, 10:21 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I have beer. Let's sit and have several and not talk about anything but sports, humor and the best dogs we've ever had.

I'm a cat person.  I guess we're enemies now.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-10-2017, 04:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not sure how it was throwing them under the bus, anyway. The whole world knows they are building illegal settlements, including Israel, and it's not like we are building them and blaming Israel for it.

It's not illegal if it falls within their borders.

[Belsnickel]

(01-16-2017, 04:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's not illegal if it falls within their borders.

And the ones they are facing criticism about, don't. At least, they are outside the borders the rest of the world recognizes.

[Benton]

(01-16-2017, 04:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: And the ones they are facing criticism about, don't. At least, they are outside the borders the rest of the world recognizes.

Israel recently released a new series of maps defining their boarders.  It's everything in gray.

[Beaker]

(01-16-2017, 07:16 PM)Benton Wrote: Israel recently released a new series of maps defining their boarders.  It's everything in gray.

Everyone in the world rents rooms in Israel?

[GMDino]

Hey!  He figured out how to pay for the wall!

The taxpayers can do it!

Twice!

Quote:The White House on Thursday endorsed a 20 percent tax on all imports to the United States, an idea congressional Republicans have proposed as part of a broader overhaul of corporate taxation. Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, told reporters that revenue from the tax would cover the cost of a wall on the United States-Mexico border.

Some of those revenues, however, are likely to come from American pockets.

President Trump had previously criticized the proposal as too complicated.

The proposal, which Mr. Spicer said the president discussed privately with congressional Republicans before giving remarks at a party retreat here, would be a major new economic proposal that could have far-reaching implications for consumers, manufacturers and relations between governments.

Mr. Trump would need new legislation to enact the proposal.

[Benton]

(01-16-2017, 08:56 PM)Beaker Wrote: Everyone in the world rents rooms in Israel?

Yes.

(01-26-2017, 07:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: Hey!  He figured out how to pay for the wall!

The taxpayers can do it!

Twice!

Outstanding. When the cost of food and vehicles goes up 20%, I'm sure the positive effect on the economy will be noticeable.

[GMDino]

If you want to buy a Trump suit that was made in Mexico, you'll need to pay a 20% import tax. pic.twitter.com/seiOUOdr4P

— Rashad Alaiyan (@rashadalaiyan) January 26, 2017