U.S./Saudi Arabia Relations

[Belsnickel]

So I was reading an opinion piece by a Muslim discussing the history and sects within Islam and making the argument for our disconnecting with Saudi Arabia. For some that may not know, Islam has several sects and groups within it, just like Christianity and Judaism. Beyond just the more well known Sunni and Shi'a branches, there is Wahhabism and Salafism which are the two largest überconservative branches of Islam that groups like AQ and ISIS use to support their ideology. They are large, but they are not mainstream. The problem is that one country in particular is Wahhabi, is the home of Wahhabism, and is responsible for the spread and funding of it in other countries. That country, is Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia doesn't just export oil, they export Wahhabism and they send the money they make from their oil exports along with it. It's not unknown to many here that Saudi sources have funded AQ and ISIS, and it's because these groups follow the state supported branch of Islam in that country.So in the midst of this war on terror that has been going on for well over a decade at this point, the two presidents have been rather cozy with the royal family. A royal family adherent to Wahhabism. A royal family that runs a country that does the same things that ISIS does in their territory. I'm just here to ask why we continue this relationship? Why do we not push for reform with Saudi Arabia? Should we even bother anymore and just cut ties?

Obviously, I think one giant reason is our lack of energy independence at this point. But I'd like to see what some other thoughts may be on this.

[6andcounting]

That about covers 100% it.

[SteelCitySouth]

Oil seems like an unlikely reason directly for the US...Only 12.5% of oil imports to the US comes form the Persian Gulf. 8.1% for Saudi Arabia.

To me it has always felt like it is our Allies dependency on Persian oil that we are protecting.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-10-2015, 12:26 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Oil seems like an unlikely reason directly for the US...Only 12.5% of oil imports to the US comes form the Persian Gulf.  8.1% for Saudi Arabia.

To me it has always felt like it is our Allies dependency on Persian oil that we are protecting.

agreed. We are fighting in Syria for Saudi Arabia right now. So they can get that pipeline to Europe. And the Russians want it.... If Assad stays in power the Russians get it .... If the MB takes over then the Saudi's get the pipeline.

I am all for freezing Saudi Arabia out. They are dangerous and why we let them send whoever here is beyond me.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 12:26 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Oil seems like an unlikely reason directly for the US...Only 12.5% of oil imports to the US comes form the Persian Gulf. 8.1% for Saudi Arabia.

To me it has always felt like it is our Allies dependency on Persian oil that we are protecting.

As far as current standings, I agree. I have to think there is some level of hedging out bets, though. Where we are trying not to piss them off in case we do need their oil as well as helping out the cause of our allies.

[Benton]

Basically, we underwrite extremists to have a place to operate out of in case we have to fight the extremists we're paying for.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 01:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: agreed. We are fighting in Syria for Saudi Arabia right now. So they can get that pipeline to Europe. And the Russians want it.... If Assad stays in power the Russians get it .... If the MB takes over then the Saudi's get the pipeline.

After looking into the sides of the conflict there right now, it honestly looks more like a Shia/Sunni war being fought with Wahhabists kicking in against both. Looking at both Iran and Hezbollah backing Assad, who himself is Shia, this is a conflict much deeper than anything about oil. It's the same issue we see throughout the region. A Shia, a member of the minority population, take the leadership role and the Sunnis aren't happy with it. When a member of the religious minority is in charge of a country where the other sect is the majority, there is turmoil. Shia Muslims don't like being ruled by Sunni, and vice versa.

[*michaelsean*]

Let them stop selling us oil. See how that works out for them.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-10-2015, 01:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Let them stop selling us oil.  See how that works out for them.

I wish we would just get with Russia and close off the Middle East from selling oil all together. Wouldn't mind exporting and drilling more at home.

[SteelCitySouth]

(12-10-2015, 01:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I wish we would just get with Russia and close off the Middle East from selling oil all together.  Wouldn't mind exporting and drilling more at home.

This make little to no sense at all.  Our consumption of middle east oil is low to begin with.  Also why drain our reserves further when "he with the last of the oil will maintain the strongest military".

also...Russia...LOL

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 01:37 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: also...Russia...LOL

I don't get the recent fascination with Russia some folks have these days. I'm given to understand from some people that among those in power and in many of the populous there is a sense of nostalgia occurring. They long for the days of the USSR as a world power and want to get back to that, including the animosity with the U.S.

Obviously this isn't my first hand knowledge, but more like third hand, but given the popularity of Putin and what he has been doing, I would say it seems pretty legit.

[Benton]

(12-10-2015, 01:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't get the recent fascination with Russia some folks have these days. I'm given to understand from some people that among those in power and in many of the populous there is a sense of nostalgia occurring. They long for the days of the USSR as a world power and want to get back to that, including the animosity with the U.S.

Obviously this isn't my first hand knowledge, but more like third hand, but given the popularity of Putin and what he has been doing, I would say it seems pretty legit.

That's a good theory.

Personally, I think they misunderstood the cold war. I think they thought when it was over, Russia would be the 51st state. We'd put a McDonald's there, take all their oil, pile up their nukes and drink all their vodka. Instead, they just sort of faded away and we didn't get to "win" anything.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 02:31 PM)Benton Wrote: That's a good theory.

Personally, I think they misunderstood the cold war. I think they thought when it was over, Russia would be the 51st state. We'd put a McDonald's there, take all their oil, pile up their nukes and drink all their vodka. Instead, they just sort of faded away and we didn't get to "win" anything.

Indeed. While there was the fall of the wall and the loss of territory for them, there was no definitive end to it, really. It may not be a sense of nostalgia for them, at all, but the folks in power now see it all as still ongoing.

[SteelCitySouth]

(12-10-2015, 03:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Indeed. While there was the fall of the wall and the loss of territory for them, there was no definitive end to it, really. It may not be a sense of nostalgia for them, at all, but the folks in power now see it all as still ongoing.

I wouldn't say that it's ongoing but I also wouldn't say that our relations are good or that our interests parallel either.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 03:33 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I wouldn't say that it's ongoing but I also wouldn't say that our relations are good or that our interests parallel either.

Oh, definitely not. We have people here that keep that up as well.

[Arturo Bandini]

Maybe focusing on an alternative energy than oil is the way. But lobbies are strong.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2015, 04:43 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Maybe focusing on an alternative energy than oil is the way. But lobbies are strong.

Now you're just talking nonsense!

[Rotobeast]

(12-10-2015, 01:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't get the recent fascination with Russia some folks have these days. I'm given to understand from some people that among those in power and in many of the populous there is a sense of nostalgia occurring. They long for the days of the USSR as a world power and want to get back to that, including the animosity with the U.S.

Obviously this isn't my first hand knowledge, but more like third hand, but given the popularity of Putin and what he has been doing, I would say it seems pretty legit.

I think it is people who feel disconnected from our country and have a gross misconception of Russia. 

[Bengalzona]

There is a lot of talk behind the scenes among high-level diplomats of supporting a political division among the entire middle east into three new 'Stans: Kurdistan, Sunnistan and Shi'itestan. This is the spill over of the actual current division of Iraq. I always thought this was a bit naive, considering that there are other factions in the region. But apparently the Kurds, ISIS and Shi'ites really dig this idea.

[GMDino]

Only caught part of this this morning on the way to the store.

http://www.npr.org/2015/12/13/459554586/saudi-arabia-s-misunderstood-relationship-with-extremism