UK poisoning

[Belsnickel]

(04-09-2018, 10:10 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Well for one thing, the UK has a lot of English so there's that.   

But really, I don't think most people really dislike Europe.  I don't know the number, but millions of Americans go there every year.  I saw one guy here call Europeans stupid idiots, but I don't see a prevalence of it anywhere.  Then again I'm not looking for it.  

There is more of it than we tend to realize, though it is mostly from people that are rather ignorant on many fronts. I wouldn't say it is a necessarily popular position, but the ones that hold it are often loud and dumb.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-07-2018, 06:10 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: That "right to secede" is what we now refer to as an "alternative fact".... as witnessed in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Hungary and Czechoslovakia were occupied by the soviets. The constitution right I referenced referred to the ones listed below.

Now if you want to get into article 74 and it’s issue then that is certainly fair. It’s clearly the banana in the tailpipe. The EU did the exact same thing.

Quote:Article 71. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics unites:

the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic
the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Azerbeijan Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Moldovian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Kirghiz Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Turkmen Soviet Socialist Republic,
the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic.

Quote:Article 74. The laws of the USSR shall have the same force in all Union Republics. In the event of a discrepancy between a Union Republic law and an All-Union law, the law of the USSR shall prevail.

[hollodero]

Appreciate the answers, sorry for only addressing the last one.

(04-09-2018, 10:10 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Well for one thing, the UK has a lot of English so there's that.   

But really, I don't think most people really dislike Europe.  I don't know the number, but millions of Americans go there every year.  I saw one guy here call Europeans stupid idiots, but I don't see a prevalence of it anywhere.  Then again I'm not looking for it.  

Of course many Americans don't dislike Europe, it's just a portion I'd call the harder right, for lack of a better word. And my assessment is certainly not just based on these boards, although to be fair on here it's also not just the usual suspect. I've also read that Europeans act like stupid children voting for authoritarian s* whose actions make the Nazis look good in comparison. And it's not a too seldom thing that people go way over the top in such manners. (Don't get me wrong, I sure have a lot to say about Trump and FOX and other American things that are intangible to me as well, and a debate is always fine, but I'd never go as far as to call Americans stupid idiots. And I'd consder that the normal thing to do.)

Speaking of over the top, it sure starts with the Donald badmouthing May and Khan in the immediate aftermath of a terrorist attack, which was quite rude to say the least. In general people have to say quite much about the London mayor, which again is strange because European leaders never slam US mayors, e.g. for having crime rates higher than London's, especially not after a city fell victim to a tragedy or a vicious attack. It's also calling Merkel names, calling Sweden rape capitol and whatnot, there's a bunch of those. In the end, the most salient thing always is how European people are portrayed. As an example, the "no-go zones". Now sure the EU is severely flawed and some migrants make problems and all that, so not argueing all that, but no-go zones make me angry. And the reason is that these guys would tell Europeans who try to set the record straight blind and stupid. Even when you tell first-hand that no, there are no areas in my city the police wouldn't dare to go in and where the rule of law no longer prevails, they insist. They insist I and all the others are way too stupid to see what dailywire & co. are describing, we are brain-washed etc. etc., you get the picture. I could go on, but I won't, but yes I do see an attitude against Europe from the right, and it's a negative one and goes further than freedom fries.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-09-2018, 07:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Appreciate the answers, sorry for only addressing the last one.


Of course many Americans don't dislike Europe, it's just a portion I'd call the harder right, for lack of a better word. And my assessment is certainly not just based on these boards, although to be fair on here it's also not just the usual suspect. I've also read that Europeans act like stupid children voting for authoritarian s* whose actions make the Nazis look good in comparison. And it's not a too seldom thing that people go way over the top in such manners. (Don't get me wrong, I sure have a lot to say about Trump and FOX and other American things that are intangible to me as well, and a debate is always fine, but I'd never go as far as to call Americans stupid idiots. And I'd consder that the normal thing to do.)

Speaking of over the top, it sure starts with the Donald badmouthing May and Khan in the immediate aftermath of a terrorist attack, which was quite rude to say the least. In general people have to say quite much about the London mayor, which again is strange because European leaders never slam US mayors, e.g. for having crime rates higher than London's, especially not after a city fell victim to a tragedy or a vicious attack. It's also calling Merkel names, calling Sweden rape capitol and whatnot, there's a bunch of those. In the end, the most salient thing always is how European people are portrayed. As an example, the "no-go zones". Now sure the EU is severely flawed and some migrants make problems and all that, so not argueing all that, but no-go zones make me angry. And the reason is that these guys would tell Europeans who try to set the record straight blind and stupid. Even when you tell first-hand that no, there are no areas in my city the police wouldn't dare to go in and where the rule of law no longer prevails, they insist. They insist I and all the others are way too stupid to see what dailywire & co. are describing, we are brain-washed etc. etc., you get the picture. I could go on, but I won't, but yes I do see an attitude against Europe from the right, and it's a negative one and goes further than freedom fries.

Are you conflating anti EU with being anti Europe? It is possible to be pro Europe and also be anti EU. At least in it current form.

I absolutely love Europe and all the history even though it’s not always pretty.

[Dill]

(04-09-2018, 07:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Now sure the EU is severely flawed and some migrants make problems and all that, so not argueing all that, but no-go zones make me angry. And the reason is that these guys would tell Europeans who try to set the record straight blind and stupid. Even when you tell first-hand that no, there are no areas in my city the police wouldn't dare to go in and where the rule of law no longer prevails, they insist. They insist I and all the others are way too stupid to see what dailywire & co. are describing, we are brain-washed etc. etc., you get the picture. I could go on, but I won't, but yes I do see an attitude against Europe from the right, and it's a negative one and goes further than freedom fries.

I get the same feeling sometimes when people start teaching me what the Middle East is like--the imminent danger all Muslims pose.

Sean Hannity has doubled down on the no go zones in Paris. I would not be surprised if one day the French start pouring coca cola in the streets in protest.

This connects to the right wing world view constructed over the last 20 years in the US, which consists of a whole system of irrefutable "facts" of which your no go zones are a piece. 

[Dill]

(04-09-2018, 03:09 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hungary and Czechoslovakia were occupied by the soviets.  The constitution right I referenced referred to the ones listed below.

Now if you want to get into article 74 and it’s issue then that is certainly fair.  It’s clearly the banana in the tailpipe.  The EU did the exact same thing.  

Lucy, you are surprising me. 

The Lithuanian SSR, for example, constantly had trouble controlling its populace because they OVERWHELMINGly wanted out from under the Soviet/Russian thumb.

But their "government" was set up by the USSR backed Lithuanian Communist Party and Russian post-war immigrants.  That thin sliver of the population which then controlled the government would never choose to break a away. And if they did, the USSR would see that they were replaced with someone who didn't.

So it doesn't reallly matter what the bulk of the people of Lithuanian wanted.  The moment the USSR could not cap protest there, the Russian backed SSR was toast. Same in the other "autonomous" republics. 

Chechnya could not break away even after the government shifted to the Federation.

So it doesn't really matter what the Constitution simply said because no one could simply break away.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-10-2018, 07:54 PM)Dill Wrote: Lucy, you are surprising me. 

The Lithuanian SSR, for example, constantly had trouble controlling its populace because they OVERWHELMING wanted out from under the Soviet/Russian thumb.

But their "government" was set up by the USSR backed Lithuanian Communist Party and Russian post-war immigrants.  That thin sliver of the population which then controlled the government would never choose to break a away. And if they did, the USSR would see that they were replaced with someone who didn't.

So it doesn't reallly matter what the bulk of the people of Lithuanian wanted.  The moment the USSR could not cap protest there, the Russian backed SSR was toast. Same in the other "autonomous" republics. 

Chechnya could not break away even after the government shifted to the Federation.

So it doesn't really matter what the Constitution simply said because no one could simply break away.

The USSR was contentious and at different times close to fracturing. A couple of articles kept it together longer than it should have been. Part of the reason I am all over the EU is that I see the same stuff happening to preserve the EU that the USSR did to preserve itself.

My wife was born into the USSR and still remembers parts even though she was young. A lot of people wanted to go back to the USSR strictly as a trade union with other benefits. No way the west would allow that to happen again I imagine. Which is odd thy let the EU go as far as they have down this road.