US Inability to Count Votes is a National Disgrace. And Dangerous.

[*PhilHos*]

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-us-inability-to-count-votes-is

Quote:The U.S. Inability To Count Votes is a National Disgrace. And Dangerous.
Nations far poorer and less technologically advanced have no problem holding quick, efficient elections. Distrust in U.S. outcomes is dangerous but rational.

Glenn Greenwald

The richest and most powerful country on earth — whether due to ineptitude, choice or some combination of both — has no ability to perform the simple task of counting votes in a minimally efficient or confidence-inspiring manner. As a result, the credibility of the voting process is severely impaired, and any residual authority the U.S. claims to “spread” democracy to lucky recipients of its benevolence around the world is close to obliterated.

At 7:30 a.m. ET on Wednesday, the day after the 2020 presidential elections, the results of the presidential race, as well as control of the Senate, are very much in doubt and in chaos. Watched by rest of the world — deeply affected by who rules the still-imperialist superpower — the U.S. struggles and stumbles and staggers to engage in a simple task mastered by countless other less powerful and poorer countries: counting votes. Some states are not expected to finished their vote-counting until the end of this week or beyond.

The same data and polling geniuses who pronounced that Hillary Clinton had a 90% probability or more of winning the 2016 election, and who spent the last three months proclaiming the 2020 election even more of a sure thing for the Democratic presidential candidate, are currently insisting that Biden, despite being behind in numerous key states, is still the favorite by virtue of uncounted ballots in Democrat-heavy counties in the outcome-determinative states. [One went to sleep last night with the now-notorious New York Times needle of data guru Nate Cohn assuring the country that, with more than 80% of the vote counted in Georgia, Trump had more than an 80% chance to win that state, only to wake up a few hours later with the needle now predicting the opposite outcome; that all happened just a few hours after Cohn assured everyone how much “smarter” his little needle was this time around].


???? ?
@IntelDoge
NYT needle showing 71% chance of Trump winning North Carolina now, "leaning Trump". 82% chance of him winning Georgia, "probably Trump".
???? ? @IntelDoge

NYT needle now "probably Trump" in Georgia, and "tilting Trump" in North Carolina. 84% chance of Trump winning Georgia, 56% chance of Trump winning North Carolina.
November 4th 2020

25 Retweets64 Likes
NYT’s predictive needle for Georgia at 8:40 pm ET, Tuesday night.


Travis Allen ??
@TravisAllen02
The New York Times projection needle just shifted 40 points from Trump to Biden in Georgia!
November 4th 2020

57 Retweets426 Likes
NYT’s predictive needle for Georgia less than four hours later, at 12:12 a.m., early Wednesday morning.

Given the record of failures and humiliations they have quickly compiled, what rational person would trust anything they say at this point? A citizen randomly chosen from the telephone book would be as reliable if not more so for sharing predictions. And the monumental failures of the polling industry and the data nerds who leech off it, for the second consecutive national election, only serve to sow even further doubt and confusion around the electoral process.

A completely untrustworthy voting count is now the norm. Two months after the New York state primary in late June, two Congressional races were in doubt by what The New York Times called “major delays in counting a deluge of 400,000 mail-in ballots and other problems.” In particular:

Thousands more ballots in the city were discarded by election officials for minor errors, or not even sent to voters until the day before the primary, making it all but impossible for the ballots to be returned in time.

It took a full six weeks for New York to finally declare a winner in those two primary races for Congress.

The coronavirus pandemic and the shutdowns and new votings rules it ushered in have obviously complicated the process, but the U.S. failure to simply count votes with any degree of efficiency, in a way that inspires even minimal confidence in the process, pre-dates the March, 2020 nationwide lockdowns. Even if one dismisses as aberrational the protracted, Court-decided, and still-untrusted outcome of the 2000 presidential election — only four national election cycles ago — the U.S. voting process is rife with major systemic failures and doubt-sowing inefficiencies that can be explained only as a deliberate choice and/or a perfect reflection of a collapsing, crumbling empire.

Recall the mass confusion that ensued back in January, in the very first Democratic Party primary election in the Iowa caucus, where a new app created and monetized by a bunch of sleazy Democratic operatives caused massive delays, confusion and an untrustworthy outcome. Later in the process, many Super Tuesday states — including California — were still counting votes weeks or even longer after the election was held (more than a week after the Democratic primary, California had still only counted roughly 75% of the ballots cast, depriving Bernie Sanders of a critical narrative victory on election night).

The 2018 midterm elections were also marred by pervasive irregularities. The Washington Post noted “thousands of reports of voting irregularities across the country…. with voters complaining of broken machines, long lines and untrained poll workers improperly challenging Americans’ right to vote.”


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
@AOC
Voter suppression in NY is rampant and repressive.

@NYGovCuomo is acting in the interests of Wall St, Big Pharma, and luxury developers by allowing 1.8 million New Yorkers to languish without representation.

Right in line with GOP tactics to suppress ppl of color at the polls. https://t.co/fsUaixkqrv
Rachel Silberstein @RachelSilby

By not calling a special election, Cuomo has virtually ensured that 1.8 million NYers (according to @NYPIRG) will be without representation during this year's budget negotiations https://t.co/AWoMuzkXd2
January 23rd 2018

27 Retweets53 Likes

And the full extent of the “irregularities” and treacherous outright cheating by the Democratic National Committee in the 2016 primary race between Clinton and Sanders was never fully appreciated given how pro-Clinton the press was. As just one example, “200,000 New York City voters” — many in pro-Sanders precincts — “had been illegally wiped off the rolls and prevented from voting in the presidential primary” (for one of the best-documented histories of just how pervasive were the shenanigans and cheating in the 2016 Democratic primary across multiple key states, listen to this TrueAnon episode).

However one wants to speculate about the motives for all of this, one thing is clear: it does not need to be this way. To eliminate all doubts about that fact, just look at Brazil.

After the pervasive voting problems in the 2018 midterms, I wrote an article with my Brazilian colleague Victor Pougy describing the extraordinary speed and efficiency with which Brazil — a country not exactly renowned for its speed and efficiency — counts its votes.

Brazil is not a small country. It is the fifth most-populous nation on the planet. Although its population is somewhat smaller than the U.S.’s (330 million to 210 million), its mandatory voting law, automatic registration, and 16-year-old voting age means the number of ballots to be counted is quite similar (105 million votes in Brazil’s 2018 presidential election compared to 130 million votes in the 2016 U.S. presidential election). And on the same date of its national elections, it, too, holds gubernatorial and Congressional elections in its twenty-seven states.

And yet Brazil — a much poorer and less technologically advanced country than the U.S., with a much shorter history of democracy — holds seamless, quick vote counts about which very few people harbor doubts. The elections are held on a Sunday, to ensure as many people as possible do not have work obligations to prevent voting, and polls close at 6:00 p.m.

For the 2018 presidential run-off election that led to Jair Bolsonaro’s victory, 90% of all votes were counted and the results released by 6:00 p.m. on the day of the election: the time the last state closed its polls. The full vote tally was available within a couple of hours after that. The same was true of the first-round voting held three weeks earlier — which also included races for governor, Senator and Congress in all the states: full vote totals were released by computer shortly after the polls closed and few had any doubts about their accuracy and legitimacy.

Hundreds of millions of Americans went to bed on Tuesday’s election night seeing Trump in the lead in key states, with the data experts of major outlets indicating that his victory in many of those states was highly likely. They woke up to the opposite indication: that Biden is now a slight favorite to win several if not all of those remaining key states. But what is clear is that it will be days if not longer before the votes are fully counted, with judicial proceedings almost certain to prolong the outcomes even further.

No matter what the final result, there will be substantial doubts about its legitimacy by one side or the other, perhaps both. And no deranged conspiracy thinking is required for that. An electoral system suffused with this much chaos, error, protracted outcomes and seemingly inexplicable reversals will sow doubt and distrust even among the most rational citizens.

The next time Americans hear from their government that they need to impose democracy in other countries — through wars, invasion, bombing campaigns or other forms of clandestine CIA “interference” — they should insist that democracy first be imposed in the United States. An already frazzled, intensely polarized and increasingly hostile populace now has to confront yet another election in the richest and most technologically advanced country on earth where the votes cannot be counted in a way that inspires even minimal degrees of confidence.

[*michaelsean*]

I don’t really doubt the overall integrity, but we are looking at Nov 12 or 13 for NC? Just stupid. At least update things as you get them.

[fredtoast]

Greenwald just stirring the pot to challenge the legitimacy of the election.

[NATI BENGALS]

I'm not really embarrassed. We are in the middle of a global pandemic and we had a record turnout I believe. Many more votes than normal were cast in a manner that requires hand counting.

[GMDino]

This is a unique year in the that sheer number of mail in ballots is so much greater.  Several states (including PA) tried to negotiate counting them before election day but (most republican) legislatures opposed that so the late start.

With the country more and more voting "R" or "D" you get these super close elections where counting to the very end can affect the outcome.

Without checking I can say that NC always allowed mail in for a week after the election but if they did it wouldn't have matter in most elections prior to 2016.  The result just wasn't in as much question.

I don't think we have a "problem" counting votes but I do agree that we could do it much better.

[NATI BENGALS]

I think I agree with waiting to count them. I wouldn't want to risk the leaking of vote tallies before election day.

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2020, 05:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think we have a "problem" counting votes but I do agree that we could do it much better.

A big part of the problem is that we have 50 different states using 50 different sets of rules.

[BmorePat87]

The Constitution reserves this power for the states, creating 50 independent political bodies (51 if you count DC) with their own set of rules. Given the pandemic, I am not surprised at how this is turning out. Mail ballots take longer and you must wait for them. Honestly, it hasn't taken too long.

In addition to that, our unique system of the electoral college combined with the winner take all allocation of electors adopted by the states means that our incredibly close states require further scrutiny to ensure the correct winner is called. Even with the different state laws, this would have been called for Biden last night if only the popular vote mattered. The fact that we need to see who wins the razor thin margins in a few states is the thing holding this up.

Ironically, federalism and the electoral college are the source of your frustration.

[Belsnickel]

What's interesting, here, is that most people don't realize that the "results" we're all watching live aren't the official results, anyway. Virginia's official results aren't released until the 16th. The contentiousness of this election, plus the pandemic, has caused a maelstrom of issues that are unique to this situation. We all know I am not a big fan of our electoral system and see many ways to improve it, but using this current mess as an example in this way comes across as disingenuous, to me.

[*Nately120*]

(11-04-2020, 06:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting, here, is that most people don't realize that the "results" we're all watching live aren't the official results, anyway. Virginia's official results aren't released until the 16th. The contentiousness of this election, plus the pandemic, has caused a maelstrom of issues that are unique to this situation. We all know I am not a big fan of our electoral system and see many ways to improve it, but using this current mess as an example in this way comes across as disingenuous, to me.

True, there are so many confounding variables in this election.  To me the issue is less about how we count the votes and more about how many voters would honestly admit they'd be ok with simply not counting the votes for the other side if they could get away with it.  Sure, they'd try to come up with some sort of "they're cheating, anyway" excuse to combat the cognitive dissonance one feels when he denounces democracy, but the issue remains.

[hollodero]

I have to say, I feel when it comes to national disgraces, the counting process is not far up the list.

E.g. it gets already beaten by a president constantly declaring voter fraud and propagating dark conspiracies and demanding the count to be stopped when he is ahead.

Or say the Trump twitter feed. THIS is a disgrace of unspeakable terms. Your elections are just weird.

[Benton]

Well, when you use a system designed a couple hundred years ago, you can't exactly expect modern results. When the process was established, it took weeks to reach some parts of what is now the u.s. but we live in an instant gratification society where people expect results immediately.

The odd part is, lots of folks who would prefer a faster, more updated approach are the same ones who say you can change anything because it works well for them today.

[HarleyDog]

I would like to see a day when you can vote from your computer at home. However, likely that will never happen due to cyber security threat. Plus, I think it would be near impossible to identify if the voter was really that person voting. But yes, this election is humiliating for who we are. These parties (including ALL parties) should come together and agree on a system along with the states. Probably an impossible feat because one will always think the other has some sort of advantage, but we should figure something out and soon.

I think the last heavily contested election was Gore Vs, Bush and it came down to Dade county Florida back in early 2000's. If we learn anything and we can teach our kids anything from this, it's that you have to get out and vote because it makes a difference.

[*bfine32*]

Yeah, we look inept as a Nation.

I know I'd be poking fun at other countries and I have a feeling I wouldn't be alone.

[CKwi88]

This was my wife's first time voting in the US (hooray for same day registration in CT) and she was quite appalled by the primitiveness. I observed a few elections during the better part of my 20s spent overseas, and between the national uniformity and electronic voting I found myself wondering which was the third world country

[treee]

I'm having difficulty taking the notion seriously. The polls just started closing 24 hours ago and we know the results of a vast majority of the states during an election with so many extenuating circumstances. I think we've done a pretty damn good job all things considered.

[NATI BENGALS]

(11-04-2020, 09:51 PM)treee Wrote: I'm having difficulty taking the notion seriously. The polls just started closing 24 hours ago and we know the results of a vast majority of the states during an election with so many extenuating circumstances. I think we've done a pretty damn good job all things considered.

That's how I feel. Shit, it's hard getting coworkers on the same page and we are talking 200 people not the entire USA. Plenty of people are not comfortable in close quarters with strangers during a pandemic. Then you got Rudy and a bunch of super spreader clowns coming in trying to look over your shoulder and crowd your space. Talk about screwing up the process. 

[Dill]

(11-04-2020, 05:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-us-inability-to-count-votes-is

Hundreds of millions of Americans went to bed on Tuesday’s election night seeing Trump in the lead in key states, with the data experts of major outlets indicating that his victory in many of those states was highly likely. They woke up to the opposite indication: that Biden is now a slight favorite to win several if not all of those remaining key states. But what is clear is that it will be days if not longer before the votes are fully counted, with judicial proceedings almost certain to prolong the outcomes even further.

What is wrong with the official explanation for this apparent anomoly?  I'd like to know.

Both CNN and MSNBC had for a week warned people of red and blue "mirages" created by the timing of the mail in ballot vote.

When most Democrats vote by mail, and the votes from polling places are counted first in some states, then there will be the appearance of a Trump landslide. That is why people will go to be bed seeing Trump in the lead.

As the legally cast and mailed ballots of the Democrats who did not vote at polling places begin to count, the imbalance is righted. Some places will then surge blue.

Without that background, this reporting process can surely be spun into conspiracy--one more move in the ongoing deep state effort to get rid of the people's president.  

While other networks were reporting numbers, Laura Ingraham's guests claimed myriad examples of Trump ballots lost and observers prevented from observing and Dems "filling in blanks" on stacks of ballots. 

Might as well have added that 100,000 Trump ballots were found in Hunter Biden's laptop case. The tone and slant of Fox's actual election reportage was not much different from that of the other networks, though Trump surrogates have had chances to challenge him on points, such as calling Arizona early.

[Dill]

(11-04-2020, 09:51 PM)treee Wrote: I'm having difficulty taking the notion seriously. The polls just started closing 24 hours ago and we know the results of a vast majority of the states during an election with so many extenuating circumstances. I think we've done a pretty damn good job all things considered.

(11-04-2020, 11:18 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: That's how I feel. Shit, it's hard getting coworkers on the same page and we are talking 200 people not the entire USA. Plenty of people are not comfortable in close quarters with strangers during a pandemic. Then you got Rudy and a bunch of super spreader clowns coming in trying to look over your shoulder and crowd your space. Talk about screwing up the process. 

Agreed on both counts. 

[Dill]

(11-04-2020, 07:33 PM)hollodero Wrote: I have to say, I feel when it comes to national disgraces, the counting process is not far up the list.

E.g. it gets already beaten by a president constantly declaring voter fraud and propagating dark conspiracies and demanding the count to be stopped when he is ahead.

Or say the Trump twitter feed. THIS is a disgrace of unspeakable terms. Your elections are just weird.

Yow. Got it right again.   



Our political shell games just don't work on Hollo. 
They do on us though.