Universal Basic Income

[GMDino]

(01-13-2022, 10:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: I feel that what is important is that someone made up their mind based on what they believe and just because people have done actual research and it was provided to encourage education and discussion all of that will be ignored because the possibility of changing their mind is a foreign concept.


How can you ask for info, be provided info, and then say you won't read it because you don't know what it means.  All while questioning a position that was never proposed in the first place and expect to be taken seriously?

(01-13-2022, 11:18 AM)basballguy Wrote: Ok a couple things:

Show me where in that 500+ pages of "provided info" is what i asked for and I will happily read it.  

As for saying "questioning a position that was never proposed in the first place"  If you spent as much time skimming the thread as you did trying to be witty and condescending you might've seen where I got it from...

(01-12-2022, 10:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You do understand that what I said weren't being used were plans that aren't in place, right? They are policies that these experts have put together that aren't in place because our legislatures won't pass them. So you are misreading my post and trying to make it say something it isn't.

And some of those plans are in those white papers because some of those plans involve UBI.

(01-13-2022, 11:18 AM)basballguy Wrote: Instead you'd rather be a dick....but you must feel cool for saying that.  I'll make sure to rep you so you feel validated.  

[Belsnickel]

(01-13-2022, 11:21 AM)basballguy Wrote: That was in no way clear to me with how it was typed. I can see how you intended what you were saying now.

After all that then the point is still valid.  For almost every argument in favor of a UBI, there is already a government funded program. 

Government funded programs that aren't doing enough and are difficult to navigate. If they were doing what they should, we wouldn't have the poverty rates, homelessness rates, income inequality, etc. that we do. We can do better, and we should be doing better. That is the point of UBI.

[basballguy]

(01-13-2022, 03:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Government funded programs that aren't doing enough and are difficult to navigate. If they were doing what they should, we wouldn't have the poverty rates, homelessness rates, income inequality, etc. that we do. We can do better, and we should be doing better. That is the point of UBI.

Here we go again with your personal definition of "not doing enough" and "difficult to navigate".  How do you know they aren't doing enough?  Before covid, poverty and homlessness rates were steadily declining.  Welfare spending has tripled in the US over the last 20 years.  (https://roanoke.com/lifestyles/the-us-states-spending-the-most-on-welfare/collection_32a3bdb8-67bc-5b4a-ab63-36c146adaed3.html#1)

The US spends roughly 750bn a year right now on welfare...and that's going to people that need it.  How much do you think that's going to be if we started giving everyone money...especially the ones that don't need it?  

Again, you'll get no argument on the "we can do better" front.  We can always do better.  However, giving everyone in America a UBI of say 1k/month or 5k/year or whatever.....when you're only trying to help 10-15% of America....is not practical.  

[Belsnickel]

(01-13-2022, 03:59 PM)basballguy Wrote: Here we go again with your personal definition of "not doing enough" and "difficult to navigate".  How do you know they aren't doing enough?  Before covid, poverty and homlessness rates were steadily declining.  Welfare spending has tripled in the US over the last 20 years.  (https://roanoke.com/lifestyles/the-us-states-spending-the-most-on-welfare/collection_32a3bdb8-67bc-5b4a-ab63-36c146adaed3.html#1)

The US spends roughly 750bn a year right now on welfare...and that's going to people that need it.  How much do you think that's going to be if we started giving everyone money...especially the ones that don't need it?  

Again, you'll get no argument on the "we can do better" front.  We can always do better.  However, giving everyone in America a UBI of say 1k/month or 5k/year or whatever.....when you're only trying to help 10-15% of America....is not practical.  

I have discussed how in many models there are mechanisms in place that mean if you don't need the money, you aren't getting it. UBI can actually save money due to administrative cost reductions.

As for the rates going down, they do fluctuate. However, there are better models out there that could make them lower. That's the point of looking at policies like UBI. We could be doing better by adopting better policies.