Universal Health Care

[GMDino]

The POTUS doesn't like it.

The Democrats are pushing for Universal HealthCare while thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U system is going broke and not working. Dems want to greatly raise taxes for really bad and non-personal medical care. No thanks!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 5, 2018

Unfortunately he was wrong/lied/misinformed because he gets all his intel from Fox & Friends:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/donald-trump-nhs-march-attack-11973119

Quote:Donald Trump has launched a damning attack on the NHS, saying Britain's treasured system of universal healthcare is "going broke and not working".



The US President was rebuked by Theresa May's office today just 48 hours after 60,000 people hit the streets to demand Tory ministers fund the NHS properly.

Saturday's rally, backed by the Mirror, saw Labour and protesters blame "eight years of Tory underfunding" for cancelled operations, ambulance delays, staff stress and long waits in A&E.


But comparing the march to his own domestic battle over healthcare, billionaire Republican Trump claimed it showed universal care cannot be afforded at all.


He tweeted: "The Democrats are pushing for Universal HealthCare while thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U system is going broke and not working.
READ MORE

• Thousands march in London to 'Fix the NHS' and demand government deal with health service crisis
  

"Dems want to greatly raise taxes for really bad and non-personal medical care. No thanks!"
The comment opened up a dramatic new diplomatic row with Theresa May - who has repeatedly claimed the NHS has the funds it needs.


Mrs May's Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt disowned the US President's jibe immediately.
He tweeted: "I may disagree with claims made on that march but not ONE of them wants to live in a system where 28m people have no cover.


"NHS may have challenges but I’m proud to be from the country that invented universal coverage - where all get care no matter the size of their bank balance."


Theresa May's official spokesman said Mr Hunt spoke for the government, adding: “The Prime Minister is proud of having an NHS that is free at the point of delivery.”


Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn tweeted: "People were marching because we love our NHS and hate what the Tories are doing to it. Healthcare is a human right."

Quote:[/url]Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

The Democrats are pushing for Universal HealthCare while thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U system is going broke and not working. Dems want to greatly raise taxes for really bad and non-personal medical care. No thanks!
7:11 AM - Feb 5, 2018

Quote:
Jeremy Hunt

@Jeremy_Hunt

I may disagree with claims made on that march but not ONE of them wants to live in a system where 28m people have no cover. NHS may have challenges but I’m proud to be from the country that invented universal coverage - where all get care no matter the size of their bank balance https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/960486144818450432 …
8:19 AM - Feb 5, 2018

Quote:Jeremy Corbyn

@jeremycorbyn

Wrong. People were marching because we love our NHS and hate what the Tories are doing to it. Healthcare is a human right. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/960486144818450432 …
8:44 AM - Feb 5, 2018

Quote:
[url=https://twitter.com/piersmorgan]Piers Morgan

@piersmorgan

Wrong, Mr President.
Our NHS is a wonderful, albeit imperfect, health system - and the envy of the world.
By comparison, the US healthcare system is a sick joke & the envy of no-one. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/960486144818450432 …
9:04 AM - Feb 5, 2018

The People's Assembly and Health Campaigns Together, the groups which organised Saturday's march, issued a joint letter to Trump saying: 
"The NHS has existed since 1948 in the UK after the devastation of the Second World War.


"It has been a shining example to the world of what can be achieved when we put the needs of the collective good over the interests of a few wealthy individuals.


"Unfortunately, our current government have been persuaded to increasingly adopt policies which represent those of your Government, they have decided to move us more to an American-style system which is widely acknowledged to be one of the most expensive, inefficient and unjust healthcare systems in the world.


"This is why our NHS is currently struggling and why leading Professors including Professor Stephen Hawking are bravely battling politicians who wish to turn it into a system like yours.This is what our demonstration was about.


"We don’t agree with your divisive and incorrect rhetoric. No thanks."


Even TV host Piers Morgan - often a defender of the President - tweeted: "Wrong, Mr President. Our NHS is a wonderful, albeit imperfect, health system - and the envy of the world. By comparison, the US healthcare system is a sick joke & the envy of no-one."
READ MORE

• Piers Morgan turns on 'old friend' Donald Trump over 'wrong' NHS tweet
  

Labour Shadow Health Minister Justin Madders said: “Even Donald Trump knows, you can’t trust the Tories with our NHS.


“The President is right to focus on Saturday’s march in which thousands of people joined Labour in protesting eight years of austerity, which have drastically worsened patient outcomes and demoralised the workforce.


“A universal, publicly provided NHS free at the point of use remains the most cost effective and efficient mode of healthcare provision - a fact the President would probably consider 'fake news'."


Mr Trump's comments came shortly after former Ukip leader Nigel Farage appeared on one of the president's favourite US TV news shows to talk about the NHS.


Mr Farage's appearance on Fox And Friends appeared to be the reason for Mr Trump's Twitter comment.


In a follow-up message, the president thanked the show for "exposing the truth".

The Prime Minister was previously forced to slap down her US ally after he pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and retweeted videos from the far-right group Britain First.

The US does not have free universal healthcare and Trump is trying to undo many of Barack Obama's reforms, which made insurance compulsory for most people and extended taxpayer-funded cover for the poor.

Actor Ralf Little was among leaders of the 'Fix it Now' protest which marched on a chilly Downing Street on Saturday.

He lambasted Jeremy Hunt over lack of preparations for winter, saying: "Time and time again we have to assemble, like we're doing today in the rain, to remind the government that there's neither political mandate nor popular opinion to privatise it, to underfund it, or to go to war with the people that run it, but that's what's happening."

[SunsetBengal]

Sounds to me that the POTUS wasn't all that far off base, with his tweet about the Brit's march. Seems to me like their system has been having some "issues", as a result of the 8 years of Austerity measures. Perhaps they were just embarrassed that Trump chose to draw attention to them via tweet?

Edit: I see nothing great or magical about the idea of "Universal Health Care", it's a noble idea, but impractical for Nations with large populations. I seem to remember reading articles about both the British and Canadian versions of Health Care, they detailed stories of long waits for procedures, people dying before their surgery was approved, etc.

I think that our "blended" system does well enough. If you have employer sponsored care, great you're set! If you're broke, the people will pay your bills anyway, because government Medicaid.

[Belsnickel]

So, a couple of things. One, universal healthcare and single-payer systems are not synonymous. Single-payer is a way to achieve universal coverage, but this is a problem with wording that has been going on for some time. Two, the march was to save NHS. Brits are by and large fond of having single-payer and the march was against the efforts by the right-wingers in the country to destroy the system from within by defunding it.

[BmorePat87]

Trump's understanding of policy can be summed up by whatever was on Fox and Friends this morning.

[StLucieBengal]

The NHS is broke. There are real problems over there.

[GMDino]

(02-05-2018, 08:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, a couple of things. One, universal healthcare and single-payer systems are not synonymous. Single-payer is a way to achieve universal coverage, but this is a problem with wording that has been going on for some time. Two, the march was to save NHS. Brits are by and large fond of having single-payer and the march was against the efforts by the right-wingers in the country to destroy the system from within by defunding it.

Gotcha on the two systems.  I probably should have put more thought into the title of the thread.

(02-05-2018, 08:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump's understanding of policy can be summed up by whatever was on Fox and Friends this morning.

Bingo.

[Belsnickel]

(02-06-2018, 12:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: Gotcha on the two systems.  I probably should have put more thought into the title of the thread.

You were just quoting what has been said. It's not your fault our president's understanding of policy is the equivalent of a middle-schooler's.

[*michaelsean*]

Wait. Piers Morgan is a frequent defender of Trump? I've been more effective at shutting everything out than I thought.

[GMDino]

(02-06-2018, 09:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Wait.  Piers Morgan is a frequent defender of Trump?  I've been more effective at shutting everything out than I thought.

Absolutely.  He loves him some Trumpbutt.

Some would say literally.  (NSFW)

[Millhouse]

So is this about universal healthcare, or Trump tweeting about it?

Because in an ideal world with a very small military, a non-crumbling infrastructure, no illegal immigrants, and no greed, I would be ok with it as long as intelligent people ran it.

Since the U.S. is far off from those things, just doesnt seem practical.

[Belsnickel]

(02-06-2018, 12:38 PM)Millhouse Wrote: So is this about universal healthcare, or Trump tweeting about it?

Because in an ideal world with a very small military, a non-crumbling infrastructure, no illegal immigrants, and no greed, I would be ok with it as long as intelligent people ran it.

Since the U.S. is far off from those things, just doesnt seem practical.

This post is, again, conflating universal healthcare and single-payer. Single-payer is one way to achieve universal healthcare/coverage, but they are not synonyms. For instance, the ACA was an attempt at achieving universal healthcare, but it was not single-payer. It is a miserable failure of a policy, but it was an attempt.

[Griever]

I'd rather my taxes went up a little for this than I would for a wall that wont even work to address the issue

[*michaelsean*]

(02-06-2018, 01:18 PM)Griever Wrote: I'd rather my taxes went up a little for this than I would for a wall that wont even work to address the issue

But you have to convince all the other people that they will have to pay tax into this too.  The wealthy can't come close to footing the bill.  

[StLucieBengal]

I don’t want single payer. But I would actually consider it in the spirit of working with the other side. If strict immigration controls were put into place and cancelling social security.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-06-2018, 05:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don’t want single payer.  But I would actually consider it in the spirit of working with the other side.  If strict immigration controls were put into place and cancelling social security.

So long as the thieving bastards pay me back what I've already paid in, we're golden.

[Belsnickel]

(02-06-2018, 05:15 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: So long as the thieving bastards pay me back what I've already paid in, we're golden.

Hahahahaha! You think they still have your money!

[*michaelsean*]

(02-06-2018, 10:05 AM)GMDino Wrote: Absolutely.  He loves him some Trumpbutt.

Some would say literally.  (NSFW)

How did that happen?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-06-2018, 05:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hahahahaha! You think they still have your money!

Oh hell no.....they've already stolen that.  That's where the REAL treason comes into play.  They should be tried for treason and dealt with accordingly.  If not, "let them eat cake", if you catch my drift.  I'm sick and damn tired of these "two" parties.  It's time for a radical overhaul.  This finger pointing and bickering is designed populace division.

[Benton]

It won’t matter too long. Our current system, with politicians fighting price controls, combined with our economy, more workers earning fewer benefits, will have one of two things happening. Massive amounts of people who can’t pay bankrupting critical access providers (direction we’re heading) or there will be too few people who can afford services and the healthcare bubble pops.

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2018, 11:08 AM)Benton Wrote: It won’t matter too long. Our current system, with politicians fighting price controls, combined with our economy, more workers earning fewer benefits, will have one of two things happening. Massive amounts of people who can’t pay bankrupting critical access providers (direction we’re heading) or there will be too few people who can afford services and the healthcare bubble pops.

This.

People that claim we "can't afford" universal health care do not realize that we are already paying for it through bankruptcies and high insurance premiums.

When a health care provider writes off a loss every other patient ends up paying for it.  and the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States is health care debts.