Vaccine Mandates: Biden & Dems Hypocrites?

[BFritz21]

(01-21-2022, 07:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Agree 100%.

Did I compare them?

My point was he has no problem forcing the lady to have a child she doesn't want who in turn will be forced to get vaccines that are already required. Where is the choice and freedom in that?

Did anyone force her to get pregnant and start a life?

If it's part of her body, does the woman have two sets of DNA?

[*Nately120*]

(01-21-2022, 08:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did anyone force her to get pregnant and start a life?

Possibly, but good luck getting people to believe that #metoo stuff. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-21-2022, 08:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did anyone force her to get pregnant and start a life?

If it's part of her body, does the woman have two sets of DNA?

Do people ever have sex with no intentions of having a child?

This is going no where. Never mind don't answer.

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2022, 07:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm not trying to defend anyone's stance on anything in this reply, but I do feel a point of clarification is in order.  The Covid vaccine is more akin to a flu shot than a vaccine like Mumps, Diphtheria, Polio etc.  It does not stop you from either getting or transmitting the virus.  So, comparing it to mandatory vaccines, that actually prevent the disease entirely in the vast majority of recipients (99% plus) is not fair or accurate.  

While the vaccines do not provide 100% protection against infection or transmission, they do reduce the rate of both. Your statement is false based on the studies. The rate of protection may not be the same, but they do provide that protection.

[BFritz21]

(01-21-2022, 08:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Possibly, but good luck getting people to believe that #metoo stuff. 

Rapes account for a very, very, very, very small percentage of pregnancies. 

(01-21-2022, 08:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Do people ever have sex with no intentions of having a child?

This is going no where. Never mind don't answer.

Yes but people know the risks when they have sex.

Horrible argument.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-21-2022, 07:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Agree 100%.

Did I compare them?

As worded it certainly appears so.

Quote:My point was he has no problem forcing the lady to have a child she doesn't want who in turn will be forced to get vaccines that are already required. Where is the choice and freedom in that?

See, here you're actually degrading your own position.  Brad's issue is with Covid vaccine mandates.  All the other vaccines I mentioned are not mandated, despite the diseases they inoculate one against being, largely, more dangerous than Covid.  While you certainly need them to attend public school, they are absolutely not mandated.  These vaccination are not "forced", as you put it, at all.  Also, they are far older vaccines that have been thoroughly vetted.  While I am certainly no vaccine conspiracist (I have been vaccinated against Covid myself as has all of my family) there is certainly a distinction between these long since proven vaccines and the Covid vaccines, which, by dint of time elapsed if nothing else, cannot have been fully vetted for long term side effects or other issues.  The FDA is certainly not infallible and one need look no further than thalidomide for an example of this.  In any event, my point stands, the Covid vaccine is more on par with the flu shot than these other vaccines, which makes the mandate for them even more odd for those inclined to be skeptical.


So, and I apologize if I'm misstating anyone's position, Brad's issue is with the mandate and the reasons behind it, not the vaccine.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-21-2022, 08:42 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Rapes account for a very, very, very, very small percentage of pregnancies. 

Yes but people know the risks when they have sex.

Horrible argument.

So I assume you are entirely pro choice now? Since you don't want to be a hypocrite. And you appear to be a firm supporter of the my body my choice.

[BFritz21]

(01-21-2022, 08:49 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: So I assume you are entirely pro choice now? Since you don't want to be a hypocrite. And you appear to be a firm supporter of the my body my choice.

Not real sure how you could come to that conclusion from what I posted but that doesn't really surprise me.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-21-2022, 08:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: While the vaccines do not provide 100% protection against infection or transmission, they do reduce the rate of both.

Absolutely correct.

Quote:Your statement is false based on the studies. The rate of protection may not be the same, but they do provide that protection.

Absolutely incorrect.  I did not say, or even infer, that they provided no protection.  My flu shot analogy is perfectly apt, the vaccine, in most cases, reduces the risk of exposure, reduces the severity of symptoms and reduces the chance of the vaccinated transmitting the virus.  Hence, as I said, the vaccine is far more comparable to a flu shot then the other vaccines I mentioned, which largely, close to 100%, completely prevent the disease in question.

Your rebuttal does not address my actual argument.

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2022, 09:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Absolutely correct.


Absolutely incorrect.  I did not say, or even infer, that they provided no protection.  My flu shot analogy is perfectly apt, the vaccine, in most cases, reduces the risk of exposure, reduces the severity of symptoms and reduces the chance of the vaccinated transmitting the virus.  Hence, as I said, the vaccine is far more comparable to a flu shot then the other vaccines I mentioned, which largely, close to 100%, completely prevent the disease in question.

Your rebuttal does not address my actual argument.

Imply.

But you did state that the COVID vaccine "does not stop you from either getting or transmitting the virus." That was a false statement as it has been proven that it can.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-21-2022, 08:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As worded it certainly appears so.


See, here you're actually degrading your own position.  Brad's issue is with Covid vaccine mandates.  All the other vaccines I mentioned are not mandated, despite the diseases they inoculate one against being, largely, more dangerous than Covid.  While you certainly need them to attend public school, they are absolutely not mandated.  These vaccination are not "forced", as you put it, at all.  Also, they are far older vaccines that have been thoroughly vetted.  While I am certainly no vaccine conspiracist (I have been vaccinated against Covid myself as has all of my family) there is certainly a distinction between these long since proven vaccines and the Covid vaccines, which, by dint of time elapsed if nothing else, cannot have been fully vetted for long term side effects or other issues.  The FDA is certainly not infallible and one need look no further than thalidomide for an example of this.  In any event, my point stands, the Covid vaccine is more on par with the flu shot than these other vaccines, which makes the mandate for them even more odd for those inclined to be skeptical.


So, and I apologize if I'm misstating anyone's position, Brad's issue is with the mandate and the reasons behind it, not the vaccine.

Depending on the state. They can be required. It isn't "need" it is required to exercise the basic right that is education. For example https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Minimum-Requirement-K-12.pdf
Home schooling is considered private school in Texas.
If you want your kid to be educated. They are required to get immunized in the liberal wasteland of Texas.

Some guy named George Washington required an inoculation against smallpox back when he was in charge. Possibly one of the many reasons we are where we are right now (USA). Wonder what was scientifically vetted better, the method George Washington forced on people back then or the vaccines going around now?


How do you think a "long since proven vaccine" gets started?

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-21-2022, 08:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Not real sure how you could come to that conclusion from what I posted but that doesn't really surprise me.

Ok let me break it down for you.

You are against vaccine mandates? Because of personal freedom. My body my choice. Right?

So according to your logic. Either you are a hypocrite. Or you are pro choice.


Really not hard to follow since I'm using your same argument.

[BFritz21]

(01-21-2022, 09:43 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ok let me break it down for you.

You are against vaccine mandates? Because of personal freedom. My body my choice. Right?

So according to your logic. Either you are a hypocrite. Or you are pro choice.


Really not hard to follow since I'm using your same argument.

You're trying to twist the argument back on me since you can't answer the question.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-21-2022, 09:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You're trying to twist the argument back on me since you can't answer the question.

I know you are but what am I?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-21-2022, 09:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Imply.

But you did state that the COVID vaccine "does not stop you from either getting or transmitting the virus." That was a false statement as it has been proven that it can.

Can is not the same as will, which was the crux of my point from the very beginning.  You're a smart dude, I can't imagine you didn't already determine that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-21-2022, 09:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Depending on the state. They can be required. It isn't "need" it is required to exercise the basic right that is education. For example https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Minimum-Requirement-K-12.pdf
Home schooling is considered private school in Texas.
If you want your kid to be educated. They are required to get immunized in the liberal wasteland of Texas.

Some guy named George Washington required an inoculation against smallpox back when he was in charge. Possibly one of the many reasons we are where we are right now (USA). Wonder what was scientifically vetted better, the method George Washington forced on people back then or the vaccines going around now?


How do you think a "long since proven vaccine" gets started?

You didn't refute a point I made.  You're also arguing with a person who thinks everyone should get vaccinated.  I just understand why some people are reticent and how this vaccine is not on par with those for the other viruses I have previously mentioned.   Seriously, it's like it's black or white with almost everyone, no counter argument can even be countenanced. 

[GMDino]

I never got a flu shot until I was in my 50's.  This year to be specific.  I wasn't in the "target" group that had a likelier chance of dying from it.  The people around who were all had their shots.

I also am able to stay home when I am sick.  I have a job that allows for that.  So I knew I wasn't taking a great risk for others.

Along comes covid which is more easily transmissible and killing more people faster.  No one has an immunity as it is a novel virus.  So I took greater steps to avoid people and the possibility of passing it along.  I still got covid from someone who was even MORE careful than I was. (Pre-vaccine).  We were fortunate to all survive and have it only for a short titme.

The vaccine not only limits the chances I will get it but that IF I pass it along that the next person will get sick.  And it dramatically reduces HOW sick I will get if I get it.  

I am pro-vaccine for myself and to protect others.

I know too many people who have died because they didn't think they needed a vaccine.  Some because of their politics, some because they thought "natural immunity" was better and some because of their religion.  All dead.  

Our hospitals are clogged with people who don't trust the science and doctors who then rush to the emergency room and get admitted when it is almost too late.  We have nurses in our family and my best friend is a doctor...I'm not making stuff up.  This is the reality still almost 2 full years later.

All that said if you don't want to get the vaccine then have at it.  Your choice.  Unless your job requires it.  Just like you can't refuse a drug test or break the dress code or whatever rule you signed up for.

I didn't think a national mandate would pass the courts.  And it didn't.  But that doesn't stop your job from requiring it, or a restaurant from demanding you have proof of vaccination to enter their private establishment.  I've already attended events that required the vaccination card AND masks during the event.

As to what that has to do with abortion (and I am STUNNED that no one agrees about ANOTHER abortion related topic  ) the day I can catch pregnancy from someone I will consider taking a vaccine to prevent that.

Just like the vaccine is your choice, no matter where you got your information, so is an abortion.  Until the fetus is granted the same rights they will receive as citizens then the woman is making the choice for both of them.  Just like your parents made the choice to get you vaccinated when you were a baby and like they made for you until you were of legal age.

This is a dumb argument that republicans/conservative should feel bad about making based on their abortion stance but don't because they are fully aware that all they have to do is rile up the base and the base won't see the hypocrisy in it.  

But if this is the LAST time this board has a discussion about abortion rights I'll eat my hat. 

[*Nately120*]

Neo-cons - We need to make the USA pro-life and end abortion!
Also Neo-cons - Don't let all those poor stinky Mexicans who were born in Mexico where abortion was illegal into this country, they'll wreck everything!

[BigPapaKain]

As soon as abortions start jumping from person to person, you'll have ground to stand on. Until then, I'll assume you're pro choice and will start voting Democrat.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I have to say, this thread, and some PM's I've received because of it, have been very eye opening. You can't even make a demonstrably true statement without being attacked. In the last five to six weeks I've had five of my officers, all vaccinated, test positive for symptomatic Covid. I've had two who tested positive and were asymptomatic, both fully vaccinated as well. Yes, if you are vaccinated you are far less likely to spread Covid or display the worst symptoms of it if you do catch it. But it is objectively true to point out that the Covid vaccine is much more akin to a flu shot than the Polio vaccine.


Pointing any of this out does not make someone anti-vax, a QAnon person or a religious nut. Seriously, some of you guys are just as bad as the rabid anti-vaxers.