Venezuela

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/venezuela-supreme-court-grants-itself-legislative-powers/ar-BBz3wv6?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Quote:Venezuela's Supreme Court took over legislative powers Thursday, after ruling the opposition-majority National Assembly was in contempt of court in an ongoing power struggle with leftist President Nicolas Maduro.

"As long as the National Assembly's contempt of court and invalidity persist, parliamentary powers shall be exercised directly by (the Supreme Court's) constitutional chamber or by the body it stipulates to safeguard the rule of law," the high court said in a ruling issued late Wednesday.

The court ruled in August 2016 that the opposition majority in the National Assembly was in contempt for swearing in three lawmakers who were suspended over alleged electoral fraud -- charges the opposition condemns as a trumped-up bid to curb its power.

This can't be good. Venezuela is either going to have a Civil War, or turn into a Dictatorship.

[GMDino]

(03-30-2017, 10:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/venezuela-supreme-court-grants-itself-legislative-powers/ar-BBz3wv6?OCID=ansmsnnews11



This can't be good. Venezuela is either going to have a Civil War, or turn into a Dictatorship.

Or the next country we go into to "bring democracy to".

And certainly not because of oil.

Nope.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-30-2017, 10:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or the next country we go into to "bring democracy to".

And certainly not because of oil.

Nope.

Saddam offered the US huge oil deals. They turned it down. Iraq provided the US only about 4.2% of it's oil imports in 2016.

Top 3 places the US imports oil from:
1. Canada
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Mexico

The US produces about 46.9% of it's own oil, and that number is simply going to rise now that they're taking some restrictions from getting it.



...But please, don't let facts and reality get in the way of a nice self righteous smugfest. Glad to have you back from suspension.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Venezuela is a perfect example of how pure socialism fails and eventually turns into autocratic rule. The Chavezistas like Sean Penn and Jeremy Corbyn like to pretend that capitalism and US "imperialism" are responsible for all the world's ills. The fact is that pure socialism has never worked and will never work. Of course, Maduro blames the imperialist dogs in the US for his countries woes (and GMDabo likely does as well). It must be nice to always have a scapegoat to blame your utter failures on.

[Belsnickel]

(03-31-2017, 02:19 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Venezuela is a perfect example of how pure socialism fails and eventually turns into autocratic rule. The Chavezistas like Sean Penn and Jeremy Corbyn like to pretend that capitalism and US "imperialism" are responsible for all the world's ills. The fact is that pure socialism has never worked and will never work. Of course, Maduro blames the imperialist dogs in the US for his countries woes (and GMDabo likely does as well). It must be nice to always have a scapegoat to blame your utter failures on.

That's always the thing about pure systems, they never work in practice, only in theory. Pure capitalism or socialism, great on paper, crap in reality. Pure democracy, great on paper, crap in practice. These things try to account for human behavior but they ultimately fail at doing so. And that human behavior will mess it up every time.

[GMDino]

(03-30-2017, 11:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Saddam offered the US huge oil deals. They turned it down. Iraq provided the US only about 4.2% of it's oil imports in 2016.

Top 3 places the US imports oil from:
1. Canada
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Mexico

The US produces about 46.9% of it's own oil, and that number is simply going to rise now that they're taking some restrictions from getting it.



...But please, don't let facts and reality get in the way of a nice self righteous smugfest. Glad to have you back from suspension.

Someone missed  the 

We can have a discussion about Iraq if you like.  This was about Venezuela, right?

Glad to be back.

[Aquapod770]

(03-30-2017, 10:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/venezuela-supreme-court-grants-itself-legislative-powers/ar-BBz3wv6?OCID=ansmsnnews11



This can't be good. Venezuela is either going to have a Civil War, or turn into a Dictatorship.

I think they just need to try Democratic Socialism  

[Rotobeast]

(03-30-2017, 10:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or the next country we go into to "bring democracy to".

And certainly not because of oil.

Nope.

I know there's a ninja, but I actually agree with this.

I've stated here before that I've worried that Venezuela would be our next theater.

We'll go to help keep the peace and distribute aid, but we'll be hit by rebels....yadda...yadda...

[GMDino]

(03-31-2017, 10:39 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I know there's a ninja, but I actually agree with this.

I've stated here before that I've worried that Venezuela would be our next theater.

We'll go to help keep the peace and distribute aid, but we'll be hit by rebels....yadda...yadda...

I don't think we'll "invade".  Maybe one of those home grown overthrow scenarios?

Although you'd think we'd have done it by now if they were serious about it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-31-2017, 08:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's always the thing about pure systems, they never work in practice, only in theory. Pure capitalism or socialism, great on paper, crap in reality. Pure democracy, great on paper, crap in practice. These things try to account for human behavior but they ultimately fail at doing so. And that human behavior will mess it up every time.

You and I have had this discussion, we're completely on the same page.  It's also why I had to laugh at Sander's pie in the sky promises like free college for everyone.  I can't tell you the number of people I've had disagreements with on whether actual communism would work.  They always argue that it's never really been tried and my answer is that it never will.  Human nature being what it is the guy who works three times harder and gets the same share as the guy who did nothing is going to resent the hell out of the "freeloader".

Back to Venezuela, I don't know how anyone (i'm looking at you Sean Penn and Oliver Stone) fell for Chavez's autocratic government covered in a very thin veneer of populist socialism.  Chavez was a tin pot clown, but he had some charisma.  Maduro has the charisma of McLovin and the collapse in commodities is going to really hit an economy that depends almost solely on oil production.  The thin veneer was wiped away long ago, it's going to be revolution or armed suppression soon.  All the "socialist" leaders in Central and South America eventually fall to despotism, look for Evo Morales to be next.

[xxlt]

(03-31-2017, 11:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You and I have had this discussion, we're completely on the same page.  It's also why I had to laugh at Sander's pie in the sky promises like free college for everyone.  I can't tell you the number of people I've had disagreements with on whether actual communism would work.  They always argue that it's never really been tried and my answer is that it never will.  Human nature being what it is the guy who works three times harder and gets the same share as the guy who did nothing is going to resent the hell out of the "freeloader".

Back to Venezuela, I don't know how anyone (i'm looking at you Sean Penn and Oliver Stone) fell for Chavez's autocratic government covered in a very thin veneer of populist socialism.  Chavez was a tin pot clown, but he had some charisma.  Maduro has the charisma of McLovin and the collapse in commodities is going to really hit an economy that depends almost solely on oil production.  The thin veneer was wiped away long ago, it's going to be revolution or armed suppression soon.  All the "socialist" leaders in Central and South America eventually fall to despotism, look for Evo Morales to be next.

For someone on the same page as Belsnickel (and I wasn't privy to the conversation you had with him so I am not sure why you allege you are on the same page, but machs nicht - it doesn't matter) you seem to have a lot more contempt for socialism (pure or diluted) than you do for capitalism. I am not saying you don't see the folly of capitalism (pure or diluted) I just wonder if you do why you seem to spend so little time talking about that and so much teaming screaming the "s" word. Just curious.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-31-2017, 11:44 AM)xxlt Wrote: For someone on the same page as Belsnickel (and I wasn't privy to the conversation you had with him so I am not sure why you allege you are on the same page, but machs nicht - it doesn't matter) you seem to have a lot more contempt for socialism (pure or diluted) than you do for capitalism. I am not saying you don't see the folly of capitalism (pure or diluted) I just wonder if you do why you seem to spend so little time talking about that and so much teaming screaming the "s" word. Just curious.

I suppose you'll have to find all the posts of mine "screaming" about socialism.  I've noticed you do this quite a bit, making large scale accusations and providing zero proof for them, even when challenged to do so.  There are some very good uses for socialism such as supporting our elderly or those who, by dint of medical issues, simply cannot support themselves.  In a pure capitalist system those people would always be ground under foot or forgotten.  Of course, capitalism has it's good points as well, it spurs innovation, promotes competition and rewards productivity.  It's why I stated Matt and I are on the same page on this issue as we both believe a hybrid system works best.  Now, as to what percentages each form is given, on that we probably disagree somewhat, hence my Bernie comment.

That being said do you have more accusations to hurl my way?  Just curious.

[SunsetBengal]

This really does have the appearance of someone making a totalitarian takeover.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/world/americas/venezuelas-supreme-court-takes-power-from-legislature.html?_r=0

Quote:Oneida Guaipe, an opposition lawmaker from the country’s central coast, said the body would continue to do its work, even if its laws would now be ignored when it produced legislation. “This is demonstrating before the world the authoritarianism here,” she said. “The people chose us through a popular vote.”

The ruling was also a challenge to Venezuela’s neighbors, which met in Washington this week to put pressure on the country to hold elections, and to discuss a possible expulsion of Venezuela from the O.A.S. on the grounds that the country is not democratic.
Last week, the United States, Canada and a dozen of Latin America’s largest nations called for Mr. Maduro to recognize the National Assembly’s powers, a rare joint statement that reflected deep impatience with his government.

Not to mention..

Quote:Meanwhile, political prisoners continued to be arrested. In January, Mr. Maduro established a new “anti-coup commando” to round up political dissidents accused of treason. The group has taken aim at members of the opposition, arresting many, including a city councilman from central Venezuela and a deputy lawmaker in the National Assembly.
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In February, after CNN en Español, the network’s Spanish language channel, broadcast an investigation that linked Venezuela’s vice president to a passport fraud scheme in the Middle East, Mr. Maduro ordered the channel off the air. The government has blocked the Caracas bureau chief of The New York Times from entering the country since October.

Seems pretty serious.

[Rotobeast]

(03-31-2017, 10:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think we'll "invade".  Maybe one of those home grown overthrow scenarios?

Although you'd think we'd have done it by now if they were serious about it.

You have to wait until the hearts and minds are ripe for the picking.

As I've stated before, a lot of my speculation had to do with discussions I've had with a friend of mine, in the National Guard.
He stated they were preparing for jungle environment.

[xxlt]

(03-31-2017, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I suppose you'll have to find all the posts of mine "screaming" about socialism.  I've noticed you do this quite a bit, making large scale accusations and providing zero proof for them, even when challenged to do so.  There are some very good uses for socialism such as supporting our elderly or those who, by dint of medical issues, simply cannot support themselves.  In a pure capitalist system those people would always be ground under foot or forgotten.  Of course, capitalism has it's good points as well, it spurs innovation, promotes competition and rewards productivity.  It's why I stated Matt and I are on the same page on this issue as we both believe a hybrid system works best.  Now, as to what percentages each form is given, on that we probably disagree somewhat, hence my Bernie comment.

That being said do you have more accusations to hurl my way?  Just curious.

No, I never had any accusations to hurl your way, so I certainly don't have more. I made an observation. Your perception of your post history is, clearly different from mine. Flowers to you that you can have a difference of opinion or perception with Matt and express it pleasantly. Darts to me that when my opinion or perception differs from yours it causes you confusion and/or hardship.

I will say it was refreshing to read the sort of rational post I had at one time come to expect from you.

If your perception is that you criticize capitalism in equal proportion with your criticism of socialism I am quite sure the error was mine. I never observed evidence of your contempt for capitalism and your blanket dismissal of Sanders and other people and ideas seemed to me, like other comments you have made, to be indicative not of a balanced view of the subject (as articulated above) but of something quite different. Like I said, I wasn't privy to any conversation(s) establishing what page(s) you are or aren't on. Thanks for clearing that up for dumb ol' non-evidence based me.

For the record, I will be mindful in the future that no question is so innocent as not to be painted as an allegation, so I will ask fewer. And for the record, I thank you for answering the question even though it seemingly aggrieved you.

[Dill]

(04-01-2017, 01:31 AM)xxlt Wrote: If your perception is that you criticize capitalism in equal proportion with your criticism of socialism I am quite sure the error was mine. I never observed evidence of your contempt for capitalism and your blanket dismissal of Sanders and other people and ideas seemed to me, like other comments you have made, to be indicative not of a balanced view of the subject (as articulated above) but of something quite different. Like I said, I wasn't privy to any conversation(s) establishing what page(s) you are or aren't on. Thanks for clearing that up for dumb ol' non-evidence based me.

  Just for the record, I made the same "error," based on the same proof, which was far from zero if we get to count posts made on this thread.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-01-2017, 01:31 AM)xxlt Wrote: No, I never had any accusations to hurl your way, so I certainly don't have more. I made an observation. Your perception of your post history is, clearly different from mine. Flowers to you that you can have a difference of opinion or perception with Matt and express it pleasantly. Darts to me that when my opinion or perception differs from yours it causes you confusion and/or hardship.

I will say it was refreshing to read the sort of rational post I had at one time come to expect from you.

If your perception is that you criticize capitalism in equal proportion with your criticism of socialism I am quite sure the error was mine. I never observed evidence of your contempt for capitalism and your blanket dismissal of Sanders and other people and ideas seemed to me, like other comments you have made, to be indicative not of a balanced view of the subject (as articulated above) but of something quite different. Like I said, I wasn't privy to any conversation(s) establishing what page(s) you are or aren't on. Thanks for clearing that up for dumb ol' non-evidence based me.

For the record, I will be mindful in the future that no question is so innocent as not to be painted as an allegation, so I will ask fewer. And for the record, I thank you for answering the question even though it seemingly aggrieved you.

Your condescension gets me hot.  I suppose considering Sander's "everyone gets a car" college plan ridiculous is evidence enough for you of a contempt for socialism.  What a boring monochromatic world you must reside in.


I'll further state that my posting style or general opinions have not changed from five or so years ago when I began posting in P&R.  The fact that I now seem to disagree more often with far left leaning posters on this board has to do with two things IMO; 1. the really crazy right wing posters either didn't migrate over here, have and don't post in P&R or have been banned.  2. The fact that right leaning politics has been dominating the national stage for the past year and a half or so has the far left members of P&R in the same tizzy that the far right leaning members were in for the Obama years.

In short, it's not me, it's you.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

No legislation? An all powerful court who can legislate from the bench with no accountability?

Sounds like an American liberal wet dream!

[xxlt]

(04-01-2017, 10:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your condescension gets me hot.  I suppose considering Sander's "everyone gets a car" college plan ridiculous is evidence enough for you of a contempt for socialism.  What a boring monochromatic world you must reside in.


I'll further state that my posting style or general opinions have not changed from five or so years ago when I began posting in P&R.  The fact that I now seem to disagree more often with far left leaning posters on this board has to do with two things IMO; 1. the really crazy right wing posters either didn't migrate over here, have and don't post in P&R or have been banned.  2. The fact that right leaning politics has been dominating the national stage for the past year and a half or so has the far left members of P&R in the same tizzy that the far right leaning members were in for the Obama years.

In short, it's not me, it's you.

You're so cute when you're in denial.

See, rather than calling a cliche' logic or assessing a plan as ridiculous only after completely distorting the actual plan to reaffirm my worldview, I look for evidence in the world around me. Evidence like an ascending right wing in politics almost always spelling disaster for the masses. Then, when I point out the number of times same has in fact been disaster for the masses, I get dismissed as commie extremist. It is ok though, I am used to it.

Again, I look for evidence. So, if universal health care is a reality for the majority of the civilized world, it puzzles me that THE GREATEST NATION UNDER GOD (underlined and bolded because Under God - or "Undegod?" - is as important to some people as Under Dog was to me as a child) can't keep up with the Merkels.

Same thing with universal college education. If those dumb asses over in Lefty Lands like Brazil, Finland, and Germany can figure it out, I have a hard time saying, "Captain America, who has the biggest brain in the world - along with the biggest wang - and a better brain (and wang) to boot because, after all, they are AMERICAN! can't figure out how to do it better, faster, and with more coeds orgasming to boot!" See, I am not part of the blame America first crowd, the crowd that says AMERICA can't do nuthin'! I am a part of the, let's put that big brain and that big pecker to work and show 'em over it What'sLEFTistan how we do it in the good ol' USA! If the back of my car wasn't covered in Love it or Leave it and Coiled up Snake bumper stickers I might have one that said just that.

And finally, gentle sociopathic reader, remember, while I sometimes respond to your posts, I always assume a broader readership, so don't assume everything that makes your peeper peep was meant for you. That said, I am glad to know I get you hot.

[xxlt]

(04-01-2017, 04:02 AM)Dill Wrote:   Just for the record, I made the same "error," based on the same proof, which was far from zero if we get to count posts made on this thread.

Check your abacus mate. Mine was broken. Bet yours was too.