Vice Presidential Debate

[GMDino]

My biggest disappointment was Harris avoided some questions that she should/could have handled better:  Court packing, shutdown plans, etc.

I expect Pence to dodge them...he does Trump's bidding period.

On a personal level my friends on social media posting how Harris was "angry and aggressive" was disheartening.  A strong female just can't catch a break with the right.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: My biggest disappointment was Harris avoided some questions that she should/could have handled better:  Court packing, shutdown plans, etc.

I expect Pence to dodge them...he does Trump's bidding period.

On a personal level my friends on social media posting how Harris was "angry and aggressive" was disheartening.  A strong female just can't catch a break with the right.

A woman can be strong without coming off as a snotty, mean girl b!@ch.  Just watch her facial expressions and body language.  It was awful.  The whole time she kept making me think of the whole Angry black woman talk to the hand schtick.  My wife, who doesn't follow this stuff at all, but happened to watch with me was very turned off by Harris' personality.

I am not a fan of Liz Warren, but what I remember from her debates is that she was strong and had good arguments without all the angry, snotty bitchiness.

I personally think Harris and Trump are trying to duke it out to see who has the crappiest personality.

IMO, if you were just looking at demeanor, Pence crushed Harris.  

Something personal about myself and my son.  We both have mild autism and I also have ADHD.  Probably explains a lot, huh?  Ha ha!!
Anyway, one of the things with Autism is trouble understanding facial expressions and body language.  My parents would work with me on understanding facial expressions and body language when I was young.  I'm not saying I am more in tune with facial expressions and body language, just that I always subconsciously pay very close attention to those things and try to interpret them.  

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: My biggest disappointment was Harris avoided some questions that she should/could have handled better:  Court packing, shutdown plans, etc.

I expect Pence to dodge them...he does Trump's bidding period.

On a personal level my friends on social media posting how Harris was "angry and aggressive" was disheartening.  A strong female just can't catch a break with the right.

So you're friends with sexists? According to most Democrats' logic, that makes YOU a sexist, too! :shock:

Seriously, though, why is it that whenever someone on the right is somewhat critical of a non-white and/or non-male person they're being racist and/or sexist?

[CJD]

(10-08-2020, 12:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So you're friends with sexists? According to most Democrats' logic, that makes YOU a sexist, too! :shock:

Seriously, though, why is it that whenever someone on the right is somewhat critical of a non-white and/or non-male person they're being racist and/or sexist?

Eh, it's the same reason if you tell a black man he speaks surprisingly well (or use terms like "articulate") it is a touchy subject.

Women who are strong willed have put up with being called a ***** or bossy or mean so much when men are not held to that same regard (female bosses deal with this a lot more than male bosses who exhibit the same behaviors) so there's a red alert any time that criticism is brought up.

For example, were the people who were condemning Kamala for being aggressive or angry Trump supporters? Because even on his best day, he is infinitely more angry and aggressive. So are they condemning her for her behavior when they prop up someone demonstrably worse? Or are they just complaining that a woman dared have a strong opinion or outlook?

Just like when a person calls a black man articulate, was he really being articulate beyond your reasonable expectations? Or were you just expecting him to be so "ghetto" and incapable of speaking properly that even the basic level of communication considered "impressive?"

The expectation for someone to not meet a relatively low bar is not a great place to start when evaluating a person, after all.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-08-2020, 09:45 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Also, the Trump tax change did some pretty awful things regarding property tax and the personal exemption. If I remember correctly, if you pay more than $10,000 in property tax per year, you probably lost money in the tax change because they capped how much property tax you were allowed to deduct from your taxes.

I have a (appraised at) $400,000.00 home and I pay only $2,700 and change in property taxes a year.

Either we're taxed too low up here or you guys are getting horrifically-gouged; only people that pay over $10,000.00 in property taxes here in Ontario are if you live in downtown Toronto or if you have a 1.5 million dollar home.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 12:12 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Eh, it's the same reason if you tell a black man he speaks surprisingly well (or use terms like "articulate") it is a touchy subject.

Women who are strong willed have put up with being called a ***** or bossy or mean so much when men are not held to that same regard (female bosses deal with this a lot more than male bosses who exhibit the same behaviors) so there's a red alert any time that criticism is brought up.

For example, were the people who were condemning Kamala for being aggressive or angry Trump supporters? Because even on his best day, he is infinitely more angry and aggressive. So are they condemning her for her behavior when they prop up someone demonstrably worse? Or are they just complaining that a woman dared have a strong opinion or outlook?

Just like when a person calls a black man articulate, was he really being articulate beyond your reasonable expectations? Or were you just expecting him to be so "ghetto" and incapable of speaking properly that even the basic level of communication considered "impressive?"

The expectation for someone to not meet a relatively low bar is not a great place to start when evaluating a person, after all.

I don't doubt there are situations where women face extra scrutiny or unfair pejoratives due to their gender, but that doesn't mean that every single criticism leveled at women is because the criticizer is sexist.

[GMDino]

(10-08-2020, 12:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So you're friends with sexists? According to most Democrats' logic, that makes YOU a sexist, too! :shock:

Seriously, though, why is it that whenever someone on the right is somewhat critical of a non-white and/or non-male person they're being racist and/or sexist?

To me it wasn't just being "Critical" becuase it is directed toward only women and minorities.

The same people who love when Trump "talks tough" think Harris telling Trump to let her finish makes her "angry".

It's the age old adage that women are too emotional to be POTUS but Trump's constant yelling and whining is seen as "passion".

In another forum Tom Brady is seen as having "drive" and is "competitive" when he screams and throws things but OBJ is "a child" with no self control.

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 11:51 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: A woman can be strong without coming off as a snotty, mean girl b!@ch.  Just watch her facial expressions and body language.  It was awful.

It is weird though that when Trump acts all unlikeable bastard, people claim this is what the country needs and a nice person won't cut it.

Meanwhile, Harris has to be all soft and smiles.

Why is that?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 01:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: It is weird though that when Trump acts all unlikeable bastard, people claim this is what the country needs and a nice person won't cut it.

Meanwhile, Harris has to be all soft and smiles.

Why is that?

I don't think that is totally accurate.  I think Trump is an ass a lot of the time also.

To me Harris just has an unlikeable, snotty personality.  I believe that is one of the reasons why she didn't go far in the primaries.  Voters just didn't like her.  Nothing to do with being a woman.

Dems should have went with Gabbard.  Gabbard = much better personality and far more likeable than Harris.

[CJD]

(10-08-2020, 12:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't doubt there are situations where women face extra scrutiny or unfair pejoratives due to their gender, but that doesn't mean that every single criticism leveled at women is because the criticizer is sexist.

Yea, it's a case by case thing, for sure.

[GMDino]

(10-08-2020, 01:23 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't think that is totally accurate.  I think Trump is an ass a lot of the time also.

To me Harris just has an unlikeable, snotty personality.  I believe that is one of the reasons why she didn't go far in the primaries.  Voters just didn't like her.  Nothing to do with being a woman.

Dems should have went with Gabbard.  Gabbard = much better personality and far more likeable than Harris.

Is that HDS? 

[BigPapaKain]

(10-08-2020, 01:23 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't think that is totally accurate.  I think Trump is an ass a lot of the time also.

To me Harris just has an unlikeable, snotty personality. 

Because Trump is such a bubbly happy go lucky be your friend type.

Just say what you mean when you say you don't like her personality but continue to make excuses for Trump's.

[CJD]

(10-08-2020, 12:30 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:

I have a (appraised at) $400,000.00 home and I pay only $2,700 and change in property taxes a year.

Either we're taxed too low up here or you guys are getting horrifically-gouged; only people that pay over $10,000.00 in property taxes here in Ontario are if you live in downtown Toronto or if you have a 1.5 million dollar home.

Yea, property taxes are pretty crazy in America. For example, property tax in Cincinnati is 1.77%. 

So a 564,000 dollar home would be 10,000 dollars property tax.

In areas like New York or New Jersey, there are a fair number of people with higher than 10,000 in property tax.

I'm lucky enough to currently own a home with a tax abatement, so I only pay about $4,000 per year. But once that ends in 6 years, I think it goes up to $8,000 or so.

[GMDino]

It bleeds into a lot of the coverage of women politicians vs men.  What are they wearing, do they smile enough, did they raise their voice, etc.

Clinton wore too many pants suits and had fat ankles.  Her laugh was "annoying".

Didn't matter that she had a grasp of the topics and was knowledgeable.

Obviously not everyone criticizes that way but it is there and it is directed at women...not men.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-08-2020, 11:51 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: A woman can be strong without coming off as a snotty, mean girl b!@ch.  Just watch her facial expressions and body language.  It was awful.  The whole time she kept making me think of the whole Angry black woman talk to the hand schtick.  My wife, who doesn't follow this stuff at all, but happened to watch with me was very turned off by Harris' personality.

I am not a fan of Liz Warren, but what I remember from her debates is that she was strong and had good arguments without all the angry, snotty bitchiness.

I personally think Harris and Trump are trying to duke it out to see who has the crappiest personality.

IMO, if you were just looking at demeanor, Pence crushed Harris.  

Something personal about myself and my son.  We both have mild autism and I also have ADHD.  Probably explains a lot, huh?  Ha ha!!
Anyway, one of the things with Autism is trouble understanding facial expressions and body language.  My parents would work with me on understanding facial expressions and body language when I was young.  I'm not saying I am more in tune with facial expressions and body language, just that I always subconsciously pay very close attention to those things and try to interpret them.  

How did you get into the Air Force with that history?

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 01:23 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't think that is totally accurate.  I think Trump is an ass a lot of the time also.

Granted, you're right. I just heard it quite often, that yeah he's an ass at times, but an ass is what the country needs right now. Not from you I guess, so I probably should not have directed that remark towards you.

(10-08-2020, 01:23 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: To me Harris just has an unlikeable, snotty personality.  I believe that is one of the reasons why she didn't go far in the primaries.  Voters just didn't like her.  Nothing to do with being a woman.

Dems should have went with Gabbard.  Gabbard = much better personality and far more likeable than Harris.

Gabbard is not liked amongst democrats though, for several reasons, including her previous anti-homosexuality stances, her relationship to and comments about Assad and the support she gets from Russian bots and some right-wing extremists. Also, she did not fill the "black woman" box, of which I share your scepticism.

As for Harris, I do not particularly like her either, I just hope it's not underlying bias I'm not aware of. But I thought her attack line on Biden was a cheap shot and her using primary debate time to discuss Trump's twitter account was cringeworthy. Also she threatened parents with jailtime if their kids were cutting classes :) which seems a bit extreme.

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 02:15 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How did you get into the Air Force with that history?

Don't know about ADHD, but I wonder why mild autism or aspergers would be reason not to admit someone to Air Force or anything really. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 01:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: The same people who love when Trump "talks tough" think Harris telling Trump to let her finish makes her "angry".

What's wrong with someone being angry at being interrupted? 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 01:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: It bleeds into a lot of the coverage of women politicians vs men.  What are they wearing, do they smile enough, did they raise their voice, etc.

Clinton wore too many pants suits and had fat ankles.  Her laugh was "annoying".

Didn't matter that she had a grasp of the topics and was knowledgeable.

Obviously not everyone criticizes that way but it is there and it is directed at women...not men.

You sure about that? Trump's looks are never criticized? He's never referred to as 'orange'? People don't make fun of his weight? Or his hair?

[BmorePat87]

(10-08-2020, 11:51 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: A woman can be strong without coming off as a snotty, mean girl b!@ch.  Just watch her facial expressions and body language.  It was awful.  The whole time she kept making me think of the whole Angry black woman talk to the hand schtick.  My wife, who doesn't follow this stuff at all, but happened to watch with me was very turned off by Harris' personality.

I am not a fan of Liz Warren, but what I remember from her debates is that she was strong and had good arguments without all the angry, snotty bitchiness.

Throw in "uppity" to stick the landing on this master class of stereotyping.