Wallace to Cheney: Iran's Centrifuges 'Went From 0 To 5,000' While You Were VP

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-06-2015, 10:38 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Of course he'd like a war. Jake may be protective of his income, but he is very generous with other people's sons, husbands and fathers.

When did I say I wanted a war? 

If you'll notice my first response in this thread, I called Cheney out for being a guy that just wants to go to war.

You're not talking to a fox news watching republican here son, so you'll have to do a little better than your typical mother jones comebacks.

And further, screw you for insinuating that I'm generous with the lives of Americans.  I'm not the one that votes for the party that is responsible for the death of a million babies every year. 

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Oh no....fred knows the details "very well".

1) 24 waiting period on inspections

Any site that is given notice of an inspection will be under constant surveillance for the 24 hour period so that nothing can be removed.  It is also impossible to dismantle a centrifuge in 24 hours.

(09-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: 2) Sanctions gone

Of course the sanctions are gone.  the only purpose of the sanctions was to get the Iranians to negotiate.  But if Iran violates the agreement the sanctions go back in place automatically.

(09-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: 3) Kerry told lawmakers that negotiators said there was no better deal available, and since 2003 Iran has not pursued a nuclear bomb.  If that's true, what do we need a deal for in the first place?

Not sure if this is a serious question.  The point of the deal was to prevent Iran from pursuing a nuclear weaponms program.  Don't know why you would even ask this question

(09-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: 4) Anything Iran is "giving up" as a part of this deal is offset by the economic gain they will get because of the removal of sanctions.

Do you even understand what the term "negotiations" means?  Do you even know the point of this deal.  Iran has been prevented from pursuing a nuclear weapons program.  How do they regain nuclear weapons by having the sanctions lifted?  How could any deal have been possible if Iran never received anything in return for giving up the pursuit of a nuclear weapon?  

(09-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: 5) The White House is "comfortable" that Iran will self-inspect and deliver honest reports.

No they are not and you can not provide a link to the administration saying anything like this. The whole issue of "self-inspecting" has to do with the requirements of the International Atomic Energy Agency (not the White House).  This deal is not between the United States and Iran.  It is an international agreement between Iran and several other nations.  Since this a multinational agreement the inspections will be carried out by an international agency instead of the United States.

The info you got from inside the echo chamber has since been questioned and has even been redacted from many early versions of the story.  The leak claimed that Iranian scientists would be taking the samples, but in fact the IAEA has claimed that it is not uncommon for the Iranian scientists to actually take the samples with an IAEA inspector present. 

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2015, 10:44 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: When did I say I wanted a war? 

How can you be against both diplomacy and war?  What is the third option?

You condemned Obama for "doing nothing" in Syria and the Ukraine.  So what exactly did you want him to do?

[Benton]

Since we're all numbers in this thread...

1- Is anyone surprised? Cheney is an ass whose only answer to the wrongs he's committed is "Obama did it."

2- Anyone who thought Iran went from 0-5,000 in four years was a moron anyway.

3- WTF is up with Fox News reporting the news?

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-06-2015, 11:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How can you be against both diplomacy and war?  What is the third option?

You condemned Obama for "doing nothing" in Syria and the Ukraine.  So what exactly did you want him to do?

Anything other than what he did. Point remains no matter what he did, of course.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-06-2015, 11:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you even know the point of this deal.

No, I don't.  The sanctions were working, and I don't see the point in fixing something that isn't broke. 

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-07-2015, 06:44 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: The sanctions were working,

LOL

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-07-2015, 11:24 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: LOL

What about the sanctions weren't working?

What does this agreement accomplish that sanctions didn't?

What exactly did the US gain out of this deal? 

If any of your above answers are a guarantee that Iran doesn't build a nuclear bomb, I'm going to "LOL" at you, because they haven't had a nuclear weapon program in place since 2003. 

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-08-2015, 12:53 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: What about the sanctions weren't working?

What does this agreement accomplish that sanctions didn't?

What exactly did the US gain out of this deal? 

If any of your above answers are a guarantee that Iran doesn't build a nuclear bomb, I'm going to "LOL" at you, because they haven't had a nuclear weapon program in place since 2003. 

LOL

[fredtoast]

(09-08-2015, 12:53 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: What about the sanctions weren't working?

What does this agreement accomplish that sanctions didn't?

What exactly did the US gain out of this deal? 

If any of your above answers are a guarantee that Iran doesn't build a nuclear bomb, I'm going to "LOL" at you, because they haven't had a nuclear weapon program in place since 2003. 

The international sanctions were only agreed upon in order to get Iran to negotiate.  Russia, China, and even some European countries would not agree to endless sanctions.

Most U.S. sanctions will remain in place.  The United States had had sanctions in place against Iran since 1995 based on terrorism and human rights violations.  Those will not be lifted.  Only a small portion of U.S. sanctions were enacted because of the nuclear weapon problem.  MOst of those were from other countries.  And that was the onnly reason they were so effective.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The international sanctions were only agreed upon in order to get Iran to negotiate.  Russia, China, and even some European countries would not agree to endless sanctions.

Most U.S. sanctions will remain in place.  The United States had had sanctions in place against Iran since 1995 based on terrorism and human rights violations.  Those will not be lifted.  Only a small portion of U.S. sanctions were enacted because of the nuclear weapon problem.  MOst of those were from other countries.  And that was the onnly reason they were so effective.

You didn't answer or address any of my questions, aside from basically saying that most of the effective sanctions were from other countries.

[Blutarsky]

(09-06-2015, 11:26 PM)Benton Wrote: 3- WTF is up with Fox News reporting the news?

It always has. You just can't stand hearing the truth about your side.
Were also you surprised at the harsh questioning by the FOX staff toward the Republican candidates during the debate?

[fredtoast]

(09-08-2015, 03:25 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: You didn't answer or address any of my questions, aside from basically saying that most of the effective sanctions were from other countries.

These sanctions were from other countries that would not agree to endless sanctions.

You asked why we needed an agreement if sanctions were working.

The answer is that we could not get countries like Russia, China, and some Europeans to agree to just continue sanctions forever. The amount of relief from the US lifting sanctions was actually very small. US businesses are still severely limited in trade with Iran based on other sanctions that remain in place.

[Benton]

(09-08-2015, 05:27 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: It always has. You just can't stand hearing the truth about your side.
Were also you surprised at the harsh questioning by the FOX staff toward the Republican candidates during the debate?

[Blutarsky]

(09-08-2015, 12:53 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: What exactly did the US gain out of this deal? 

Nothing. Not even the release of the 3 American prisoners.

[Blutarsky]

(09-06-2015, 08:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's called diplomacy.

Something we had bee seriously lacking in the previous administration.


As to being "lazy" it seems he's done more to work towards solving or easing these problems that those hard workers from the Bush admin.

Diplomacy to Obama means asking for forgiveness from the world because America is the reason why everyone else is suffering. Diplomacy to Obama is bowing before world leaders, appeasement, and kissing ass.
Yes, we were lacking that in the previous administration.
The proof is in the pudding- continuing to concede the sanctions until Iran got everything they wanted.
They are laughing at us.

Obama is not lazy, he knows exactly what he's doing.

[Blutarsky]

Iran cant develop a nuclear weapon for 15yrs....how about never?


The U.S. cannot be assured that they won't cheat. Inspectors not allowed in without permission. Must have evidence to boot.
Well why the heck not, there isn't a better regime to place our trust in.

Major financial sanctions to be lifted within a year...  a government that leads the world in state sponsored terrorism could always use the extra cash.
An you wonder why Israel is so pissed.

The Iran deal in 200 words. Based on these summaries the "deal" doesn't look good.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-deal-qa.html

[Benton]

(09-08-2015, 06:52 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: Iran cant develop a nuclear weapon for 15yrs....how about never?


The U.S. cannot be assured that they won't cheat. Inspectors not allowed in without permission. Must have evidence to boot.
Well why the heck not, there isn't a better regime to place our trust in.

Major financial sanctions to be lifted within a year...  a government that leads the world in state sponsored terrorism could always use the extra cash.
An you wonder why Israel is so pissed.

The Iran deal in 200 words. Based on these summaries the "deal" doesn't look good.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-deal-qa.html

If you put a reasonable time table on it, the other side is more likely to consider it a reasonable deal. If you say "we'll sit down in X amount of time and review everything again" you'll get some communication. If you pull a Cheney and say "don't do it" you'll have them go from 0-5,000 because that's an absurd approach.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-08-2015, 06:51 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: Diplomacy to Obama means asking for forgiveness from the world because America is the reason why everyone else is suffering. Diplomacy to Obama is bowing before world leaders, appeasement, and kissing ass.
Yes, we were lacking that in the previous administration.
The proof is in the pudding- continuing to concede the sanctions until Iran got everything they wanted.
They are laughing at us.

Obama is not lazy, he knows exactly what he's doing.

Yes. He is a mole for Jeremiah Wright; he's intentionally goddamning America. Hell, before he leaves office, I wouldn't be surprised if he drops a couple nukes on us just for fun.

 

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 07:56 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Yes. He is a mole for Jeremiah Wright; he's intentionally goddamning America. Hell, before he leaves office, I wouldn't be surprised if he drops a couple nukes on us just for fun.

 

He could nuke California and if he were on the ballot he'd still win that state in a landslide.