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We had White slaves in America, too.
#1
I'm not of Irish decent, but I often wonder why their story isn't as portrayed in history books as the black American's story of slavery.



https://peoplestrusttoronto.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves/


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They came as slaves: human cargo transported on British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. Some were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.

But are we talking about African slavery? King James VI and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbour.

The Irish slave trade began when James VI sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies.

By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia.

Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (£50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than £5 Sterling). If a planter whipped, branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce.

Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish mothers, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their children and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls (many as young as 12) with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

There is little question the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more, in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is also little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry.

In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end its participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded this chapter of Irish misery.

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong. Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories.

But, why is it so seldom discussed? Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims not merit more than a mention from an unknown writer?

Or is their story to be the one that their English masters intended: To completely disappear as if it never happened.

None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.
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#2
OK Rolleyes
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#3
Hard to say. I've known about this for quite some time. Most people just don't realize this sort of thing. Africans we enslaved in greater numbers and there was an entire industry based solely on that market, but Irish, and some from other countries as well, were also enslaved in this country.

I think because while the Irish did have a rough go of it for a bit they aren't experiencing the same prejudices in this century that the black community is that we tend to forget how we once treated them.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
#4
Well most ethnic groups have been enslaved at one point or another.
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#5
(06-16-2015, 07:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not of Irish decent, but I often wonder why their story isn't as portrayed in history books as the black American's story of slavery.



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#6
Because only black lives matter.
#7
(06-16-2015, 07:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not of Irish decent, but I often wonder why their story isn't as portrayed in history books as the black American's story of slavery.

Any slavery is bad, no doubt.  I don't think you're going to find many people that will even attempt to justify it.  I also don't think that you'll find many people that will try to put the treatment of Irish people in the same boat with the treatment of black people.  There just isn't much to compare there.
LFG  

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#8
Anybody that has a decent grasp on history shouldn't be shocked at this.  The Americas, West Indies, Australia, New Zealand, and many others were started off mainly as penal colonies.  Prisoners, political dissidents, and all sorts of undesirables were shipped to vast corners of the British Empire.  A lot of immigrants received less than warm welcomes to the good ol' USA and many of all races and color were sold into some sort of servitude.
#9
(06-16-2015, 10:34 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Any slavery is bad, no doubt.  I don't think you're going to find many people that will even attempt to justify it.  I also don't think that you'll find many people that will try to put the treatment of Irish people in the same boat with the treatment of black people.  There just isn't much to compare there.

Really?  The Irish folk that escaped to settle in Appalachia have forever been the butt of jokes.  William is a common Irish name, thus with them settling in the hills, the birth of the term "hillbilly".  Not to mention the part of the forced interbreeding with the Africans, to get a better dollar per person on the Irish.
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Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations

-Frank Booth 1/9/23
#10
(06-16-2015, 11:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  The Irish folk that escaped to settle in Appalachia have forever been the butt of jokes.  William is a common Irish name, thus with them settling in the hills, the birth of the term "hillbilly".  Not to mention the part of the forced interbreeding with the Africans, to get a better dollar per person on the Irish.

So....you're citing the use of the word "hillbilly" as a reason that Irish people were enslaved and mistreated to the level that black people were?  What a hillbilly thing to say.... Smirk

Seriously....like I said in my first post.  All slavery is horrible.  The treatment that black people received for centuries makes it stand out a little bit from others. There is no American comparison to the treatment of African slaves....except for maybe the treatment of the continental natives.
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#11
(06-16-2015, 07:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hard to say. I've known about this for quite some time. Most people just don't realize this sort of thing. Africans we enslaved in greater numbers and there was an entire industry based solely on that market, but Irish, and some from other countries as well, were also enslaved in this country.

I think because while the Irish did have a rough go of it for a bit they aren't experiencing the same prejudices in this century that the black community is that we tend to forget how we once treated them.

Yup





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#12
(06-17-2015, 12:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yup

Pretty much.
#13
(06-16-2015, 11:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  The Irish folk that escaped to settle in Appalachia have forever been the butt of jokes.  William is a common Irish name, thus with them settling in the hills, the birth of the term "hillbilly".  Not to mention the part of the forced interbreeding with the Africans, to get a better dollar per person on the Irish.

Being the butt of jokes is a far cry from the treatment the free blacks received in this country. The city I live in is pretty much a border in Appalachia between German settlers and Scotch/Irish. Everyone was, and is, the butt of some joke around here. It's the same everywhere, really. I mean, being blond is synonymous with being dumb, but that doesn't equate to the same prejudices and treatment the black community has endured.

All slaves are treated poorly. All throughout history slaves are property. They are beaten, worked to death, and bred like the chattel they are considered to be. Everywhere, any time, that is how slavery works. After their emancipation, however, the black community has had a much more difficult time that still has some strong echos reverberating to this day that make their story a much more difficult one than those of the white slaves in this country.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
#14
There has been slaves or some form of slavery since the begining of man.
There was a difference in the treatment of the two. Chattel slavery was perpetual, a slave was only free once they they were no longer alive. It was hereditary, the children of slaves were the property of their owner; the status of chattel slave was designated by ‘race’, there was no escaping your bloodline; a chattel slave was treated like livestock.
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#15
I thought this was going to be a thread about husbands.
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#16
Interesting.....I was aware of this, as I am of Irish descent.

Hillbilly isn't the only inflammatory adjective.....the recent onslaught of bashing gingers as soulless could be thrown in for good measure too.

While I agree that it isn't anywhere near the hardships the African slaves endured after their emancipation, does it make it ok to look the other way as these derogatory monikers are tossed around so cavalierly? I just find it odd that some ethnic slurs are frowned upon, while others are embraced........or is it that some ethnic groups just shrug it off, while others have a lower tolerance?

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#17
(06-17-2015, 11:42 AM)Wyche Wrote: Interesting.....I was aware of this, as I am of Irish descent.  

Hillbilly isn't the only inflammatory adjective.....the recent onslaught of bashing gingers as soulless could be thrown in for good measure too.  

While I agree that it isn't anywhere near the hardships the African slaves endured after their emancipation, does it make it ok to look the other way as these derogatory monikers are tossed around so cavalierly?  I just find it odd that some ethnic slurs are frowned upon, while others are embraced........or is it that some ethnic groups just shrug it off, while others have a lower tolerance?

It is an interesting topic, to be sure. It can also include the discussion of cultural appropriation, such as the NAACP stuff in the headlines. For someone to appropriate black culture in such a way is a faux pas like no other, but every year there are millions in America that appropriate both German and Irish culture for a short time. Is it because of the timespan? Is it because Irish and Germans are white?

The nuances of acceptibility of these sorts of things, whether it be derogatory remarks/jokes or cultural appropriations is something I don't come close to understanding in whole. I think with the Irish in particular they have embraced many of the things that were once derogatory. This isn't to say all of them have, but many of the really Irish types I know don't mind the tamer slurs, at least coming from Americans. If a Brit uses some of them, though, it's a bit different.

I just don't tend to use any slurs like that, really. It's better that way. Every single one of us probably has a slur that applies to them that may get under their skin. I mean, we're called seppos across the pond, short for septic tank, Cockney rhyming for yank, because we're both full of shit. There are plenty more derogatory slurs for Americans on their own, let alone whatever hyphenated American version you are. We're all mutts anyway, so what does it really matter at this point?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
#18
(06-17-2015, 12:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It is an interesting topic, to be sure. It can also include the discussion of cultural appropriation, such as the NAACP stuff in the headlines. For someone to appropriate black culture in such a way is a faux pas like no other, but every year there are millions in America that appropriate both German and Irish culture for a short time. Is it because of the timespan? Is it because Irish and Germans are white?

The nuances of acceptibility of these sorts of things, whether it be derogatory remarks/jokes or cultural appropriations is something I don't come close to understanding in whole. I think with the Irish in particular they have embraced many of the things that were once derogatory. This isn't to say all of them have, but many of the really Irish types I know don't mind the tamer slurs, at least coming from Americans. If a Brit uses some of them, though, it's a bit different.

I just don't tend to use any slurs like that, really. It's better that way. Every single one of us probably has a slur that applies to them that may get under their skin. I mean, we're called seppos across the pond, short for septic tank, Cockney rhyming for yank, because we're both full of shit. There are plenty more derogatory slurs for Americans on their own, let alone whatever hyphenated American version you are. We're all mutts anyway, so what does it really matter at this point?

Agree wholeheartedly......

As for the rest, it has always been an interesting topic for me.  I've never really taken any offense to the musings, but then again, I've never been called to task by a Brit!LOL


EDIT: I also just avoid any slurs to begin with......why bother? Sure, my closest friends and I may call each other names in closed confines, but in public is just.......not thinking, to put it politely.

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#19
The Irish and lets not forget Scottish as well, we're kidnapped by the English and sold into slavery in the Americas. Yes, some were "Indentured" meaning they were slaves until whatever debt was paid then were set free. Others were lifelong slaves, bought, paid for and treated like slaves until, if I remember correctly, until the Slave Revolt in the 1600's. White and black slaves rose up against their master and tried to make it to Florida, which was a free territory held by the Spanish I think. After this uprising, the laws were changed in the colonies, but not in Central and South America where white slaves were still treated as such.

Then again, I could be remembering all of this wrong. It was a long time ago when I learned about this and a brain injury has things scrambled and will be scrambled until I die, lol.
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#20
Often forgot how they used to abduct white children off the streets of England and send them to be slaves.

No one tells the whole story about slavery. And it's a shame that loads of people actually think only blacks were slaves.

Great thread Sunset





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