Well.....Well....Well...

[*Nately120*]

(06-28-2018, 11:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Like "Lock her up!" and "Mexico will pay for the wall!"?

Oh yeah well you can keep your doctor and I did not have sex with that woman!

[Belsnickel]

(06-28-2018, 11:29 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I may be splitting hairs, but I think it's Trump and not the government.  Trump is still thought of as outside the government or the establishment.  

I disagree. The frequency with which he violates longstanding norms and goes without any sort of reprimand from those within his own party leadership indicates to me that they have embraced him as part of the establishment.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-28-2018, 11:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I disagree. The frequency with which he violates longstanding norms and goes without any sort of reprimand from those within his own party leadership indicates to me that they have embraced him as part of the establishment.

No not them, his supporters.  Regular citizens.

[*Nately120*]

(06-28-2018, 11:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I disagree. The frequency with which he violates longstanding norms and goes without any sort of reprimand from those within his own party leadership indicates to me that they have embraced him as part of the establishment.

Yea but democrats let their version of Trump run wild, too

[Belsnickel]

(06-28-2018, 11:41 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yea but democrats let their version of Trump run wild, too

I hope this is sarcasm. If it is, I'm sure I will appreciate it at some point when I am not reading a book by experts on democracy that are explaining the formulae used to dismantle democracies in South America and eastern Europe.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-28-2018, 11:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I hope this is sarcasm. If it is, I'm sure I will appreciate it at some point when I am not reading a book by experts on democracy that are explaining the formulae used to dismantle democracies in South America and eastern Europe.

I can't wait to party with you, cowboy.

[*Nately120*]

(06-28-2018, 11:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I hope this is sarcasm. If it is, I'm sure I will appreciate it at some point when I am not reading a book by experts on democracy that are explaining the formulae used to dismantle democracies in South America and eastern Europe.

I am being sarcastic, for now.  It's possible that the 2016 election changed the game whereby the most electable candidate is the one who will make the "other side" as angry as possible if he/she gets elected.

[Belsnickel]

(06-28-2018, 11:53 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I can't wait to party with you, cowboy.

I read the most uplifting books, I know.

People in my office will see what I'm reading and go "I hope that is some assigned reading" and I really wish I could respond that it is. But the truth is that this sort of political stuff is what I like to read in my spare time, as well. It does come in handy for research, though, because I have more information to pull from.

And to be clear, the book is not a "let's tear down democracy!" type of book, it is a book on how to identify the signs of an authoritarian and how best to combat the rise of one in their opinions.

(06-28-2018, 11:54 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I am being sarcastic, for now.  It's possible that the 2016 election changed the game whereby the most electable candidate is the one who will make the "other side" as angry as possible if he/she gets elected.

Oh, I have no doubt. It's actually one reason I kind of want to get more involved. I want to play a role in preventing both parties from becoming like that.

[Dill]

(06-27-2018, 05:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: For politicians, it's pretty easy: get rid of them. Well, easy to SAY, I know. But, you want to get rid of bad bahavior? You de-incentivize it. Allow the negative consequences of the bad behavior to occur. IMO, trying to prove the "other side" is worse just a justification of bad behavior.

It is easy to say, yes. Defining "bad behavior" seems to be part of the problem. One person's bad behavior is another's version of "strong leadership."  How do you de-incentivize bad behavior when voters reward it?  They question then becomes why do they reward it.

I have to go all sociological again: when people feel stressed because of changing social circumstances, like declining wages or an influx of "different" people in the neighborhood, when they feel powerless, then they are more likely to tolerate behavior they otherwise might not in support of a champion they think might restore the status quo. Or even to think such behavior is now good. You are probably old enough to remember when the Republican party was all anti-deficit and anti-tariff and anti-Russia and pro personal responsibility and traditional morality. 

Trying to understand behavior in a larger historical/social context is what I am aiming for when I look for tendencies in party as well as individual behavior. There is larger endgoal here than just finger wagging at the other side

[*PhilHos*]

(06-27-2018, 05:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Muslims do not support support rape of children any more than Christians support killing firstborn children to get what they want.

Trump has changed you Phil.  You didn't use to be like this.

He did? I thought I was always a smart ass.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-27-2018, 10:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: What happens when people are more riled up that the woman who lies to them daily can't get a piece of chicken than just about anything else?

http://wset.com/news/local/west-virginia-man-charged-after-police-said-he-threw-feces-at-the-red-hen

Quote:Tuesday, people turned to the street with their signs in hand to protest the restaurant, which has remained closed since the incident.

I wonder if the manager considered all the repercussions of her decision to ask SHS to leave? That's not to say the response by all the Trump supporters is warranted and/or excusable, but she HAD to of known that SOMETHING like this would have happened. She had to have considered that, if she were lucky, it would be confined to online mudslinging and maybe a small group of protestors out front.

My question would be if the manager still thinks it was worth asking SHS to leave? Make no mistake: I'm not saying the response is warranted. But it seems that given what has happened, the restaurant would be better served in just letting SHS eat.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-28-2018, 01:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I wonder if the manager considered all the repercussions of her decision to ask SHS to leave? That's not to say the response by all the Trump supporters is warranted and/or excusable, but she HAD to of known that SOMETHING like this would have happened. She had to have considered that, if she were lucky, it would be confined to online mudslinging and maybe a small group of protestors out front.

My question would be if the manager still thinks it was worth asking SHS to leave? Make no mistake: I'm not saying the response is warranted. But it seems that given what has happened, the restaurant would be better served in just letting SHS eat.

So you think it's OK for Trump supporters to respond like that.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-28-2018, 01:08 PM)Dill Wrote: It is easy to say, yes. Defining "bad behavior" seems to be part of the problem. One person's bad behavior is another's version of "strong leadership."  How do you de-incentivize bad behavior when voters reward it?  They question then becomes why do they reward it.

Good points. And, again, no easy answers.

[GMDino]

(06-28-2018, 01:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I wonder if the manager considered all the repercussions of her decision to ask SHS to leave? That's not to say the response by all the Trump supporters is warranted and/or excusable, but she HAD to of known that SOMETHING like this would have happened. She had to have considered that, if she were lucky, it would be confined to online mudslinging and maybe a small group of protestors out front.

My question would be if the manager still thinks it was worth asking SHS to leave? Make no mistake: I'm not saying the response is warranted. But it seems that given what has happened, the restaurant would be better served in just letting SHS eat.

If she did I give her more respect for not being afraid to stand up for what she believes in despite what will be over the top and crazy responses from people who were completely unaffected by her actions.

If she didn't maybe she gives these crazy Trump supporters way too much credit.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-28-2018, 01:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So you think it's OK for Trump supporters to respond like that.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-28-2018, 01:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote:

I'm just going to guess at what that is. I can read the words.  

[*PhilHos*]

(06-28-2018, 01:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: If she did I give her more respect for not being afraid to stand up for what she believes in despite what will be over the top and crazy responses from people who were completely unaffected by her actions.

The thing is, it's not just about her. And I know, according to her, it was a restaurant-wide decision. However, it's not just about the employees either. It's about the customers and the restaurant itself. If she considered the possibility that it would turn into the shitshow it's become and still did it, ok. But if not ...

I'm just curious if she still thinks the mixture of bad/good publicity, the protestings (online and physical), the vandalism and all that has transpired was worth asking someone to leave who had done nothing wrong?

[GMDino]

(06-28-2018, 01:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The thing is, it's not just about her. And I know, according to her, it was a restaurant-wide decision. However, it's not just about the employees either. It's about the customers and the restaurant itself. If she considered the possibility that it would turn into the shitshow it's become and still did it, ok. But if not ...

I'm just curious if she still thinks the mixture of bad/good publicity, the protestings (online and physical), the vandalism and all that has transpired was worth asking someone to leave who had done nothing wrong?

Here's the thing:  I answered your question more as a thought experiment than in reality.

In reality it doesn't matter what SHE THOUGHT it matters what this "protestors" DID.

Why would ANYONE think that a guy would drive from another state to throw chicken crap at her building?  Ever.  No matter WHAT they did.

You can't reason or apply logic to these type of Trump supporters.  They are, in a word, deplorable.

[GMDino]

Some of this is NSFW.

Bad language.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-28-2018, 01:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Here's the thing:  I answered your question more as a thought experiment than in reality.

In reality it doesn't matter what SHE THOUGHT it matters what this "protestors" DID.

Well, I'm interested in finding out if the events that have happened have had any affect on her thoughts. Does she regret asking SHS to leave? Does she think she made a mistake? Does she still feel she made the right decision?

(06-28-2018, 01:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: You can't reason or apply logic to these type of Trump supporters.  They are, in a word, deplorable.

And I'm not. I'm wondering if these things weighed on her mind before making the decision and if they've made her re-think her decision at all. 

A lot of people will think that one thing is the right course of action but still choose to do something different for expediency sakes. And I wonder if the manager considers maybe she should have done, not the right thing, but the more expedient thing.