West Virginia Teacher Strike

[Belsnickel]

I think something a lot of people don't consider with regard to public employees is that many are living paycheck to paycheck. Many of these employees, and this is especially true of teachers, are entrusted with things we place a high value on. Our children, our families, our resources. When you have an educated professional that you say "I want you to take care of this thing I value a ton" but you aren't willing to ensure those professionals are at least financially stable then you are risking the well being of what you have entrusted to the professionals.

When people come to work with the added stressors of not being sure how to pay the doctor's bill they just got, not being able to properly maintain their vehicle to come to work, not being able to have a balanced diet because processed food is cheaper and easier to make (which is important because they may have to work more than one job), etc., etc., then they are not able to put everything they can into the job. You get lower job performance when people are not compensated adequately.

I'm not saying we need to be wealthy, and I don't think any of the teachers striking would say that either. All that's being said is that if you want to improve the job public employees, including teachers, do, then you need to be willing to show you value what they do in taking care of the things you value.

[Griever]

(03-02-2018, 12:11 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm only advocating for reasonable wages.

But just for an interesting conversation, how would you determine which teachers to give raises too? What would you measure to determine merit?

obviously the white ones

but on topic

this was bound to happen eventually, how long have teachers been shit on and underpaid?

[GMDino]

(03-02-2018, 10:27 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think something a lot of people don't consider with regard to public employees is that many are living paycheck to paycheck. Many of these employees, and this is especially true of teachers, are entrusted with things we place a high value on. Our children, our families, our resources. When you have an educated professional that you say "I want you to take care of this thing I value a ton" but you aren't willing to ensure those professionals are at least financially stable then you are risking the well being of what you have entrusted to the professionals.

When people come to work with the added stressors of not being sure how to pay the doctor's bill they just got, not being able to properly maintain their vehicle to come to work, not being able to have a balanced diet because processed food is cheaper and easier to make (which is important because they may have to work more than one job), etc., etc., then they are not able to put everything they can into the job. You get lower job performance when people are not compensated adequately.

I'm not saying we need to be wealthy, and I don't think any of the teachers striking would say that either. All that's being said is that if you want to improve the job public employees, including teachers, do, then you need to be willing to show you value what they do in taking care of the things you value.

As a more general point that is why I support a change to our healthcare system here.  My wife got prescribed a cream for a rash that would have been $700 for a ten day supply.  With our insurance it was $75.00.  But how do people do it with no or worse coverage?  We're killing people with the cost of even the simplest things in this country.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 10:48 AM)Griever Wrote: obviously the white MALE ones

but on topic

this was bound to happen eventually, how long have teachers been shit on and underpaid?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 11:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: As a more general point that is why I support a change to our healthcare system here.  My wife got prescribed a cream for a rash that would have been $700 for a ten day supply.  With our insurance it was $75.00.  But how do people do it with no or worse coverage?  We're killing people with the cost of even the simplest things in this country.

Or Viagra.  My Dr asked if i needed Viagra.  I was like sure why not.  $750.  I passed.  

[GMDino]

(03-02-2018, 11:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Or Viagra.  My Dr asked if i needed Viagra.  I was like sure why not.  $750.  I passed.  

" "

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 11:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: " "

Kinda stinks.   I've never used it, and wanted to find out what the big deal is.  She could have at least given me samples.  

[Griever]

(03-02-2018, 11:25 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Kinda stinks.   I've never used it, and wanted to find out what the big deal is.  She could have at least given me samples.  

maybe you should have given HER a sample

[GMDino]

(03-02-2018, 11:25 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Kinda stinks.   I've never used it, and wanted to find out what the big deal is.  She could have at least given me samples.  

I thought they did give out samples.  


Maybe she figured even that wouldn't help you.  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 11:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought they did give out samples.  


Maybe she figured even that wouldn't help you.  

I thought so too. She later told me she could give me a 50% off coupon, but I ain't paying $375 either.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 11:36 AM)Griever Wrote: maybe you should have given HER a sample

There ain't enough Viagra in the world to make that happen. My optometrist on the other hand...

I feel as if this may have gone slightly off topic, and I could carry at least a little bit of the responsibility.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-02-2018, 02:18 AM)Benton Wrote: Private schools don't always pay more than public schools. In many instances, they pay less, but teachers work there due to smaller class sizes, to get their own child's tuition reduced or just for a better work environment. And as we move further away from public education, they'll likely opt to pay lower wages. 

For profit education is unsurprisingly for profit. If you can pay staff a lower rate, you're going to pay a lower rate. That's just business. Once public systems are abolished, there's no real wage scale for teachers. 

Private schools do pay less. But only because there is a public school which over pays a large section of teachers who aren’t pulling their weight.

Dump public education and see private wages rise for those who are earning it

[StLucieBengal]

(03-02-2018, 12:11 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm only advocating for reasonable wages.

But just for an interesting conversation, how would you determine which teachers to give raises too? What would you measure to determine merit?

That is an interesting question.

How about using parent reviews/administration reviews. This would force teachers to be more in touch with parents which would engage them more in their child’s education.

Allowing parents to sign up for specific teachers. And paying a premium to those who are highly rated. All that premium money going to the teacher in the form of a bonus.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 12:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Private schools do pay less.  But only because there is a public school which over pays a large section of teachers who aren’t pulling their weight.  

Dump public education and see private wages rise for those who are earning it

   Are we still paying for the kids to attend these schools?  I don't want a lot of people with no education because they couldn't pay for it.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-02-2018, 12:38 PM)michaelsean Wrote:    Are we still paying for the kids to attend these schools?  I don't want a lot of people with no education because they couldn't pay for it.

We are paying for them now and are failing.

At least this way they have skin in the game .

[*michaelsean*]

(03-02-2018, 12:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We are paying for them now and are failing.    

At least this way they have skin in the game .

I know we are, but in your scenario are we paying?  A lot of people couldn't afford $1000 let alone what these schools would cost.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-02-2018, 12:50 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I know we are, but in your scenario are we paying?  A lot of people couldn't afford $1000 let alone what these schools would cost.

Yeah.....with all the taxes these crooks in government are already stealing, if I have to pay to send my children to primary education, I'm out.  I'm moving some damn where.  My grandfathers didn't land at Normandy and Guadalcanal for this shit to be going on.

[*Synric*]

(03-02-2018, 10:01 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's sad. We have some similar things going on in Virginia with DOC employees. When compared to the private sector in our state, we actually compensate our employees worse than WV. We have been trying to raise compensation for the high-turnover positions which includes DOC and some healthcare folks. Our state police are also among the hardest hit. Our state pays them worse than just about every locality, so they go and get trained, get an assignment, get to know the locals and then sign on with them for higher pay. Unfortunately, there are no options for any of us here. No public sector unions at all.

My little brother is a correction counselor so I get to hear all about it lol. He averages only about 22k a year teachers and police average about 32 and judges about 42. The state has them by the balls because the DOC cannot strike or talk to the media because they are under a lifetime gag order.

Police in West Virginia get alot of state money. They have the toughest academy program in the country and their special unit (SWAT) is so well trained people from all over the world come to study their training techniques.

[masterpanthera_t]

(03-02-2018, 03:12 PM)Synric Wrote: My little brother is a correction counselor so I get to hear all about it lol. He averages only about 22k a year teachers and police average about 32 and judges about 42. The state has them by the balls because the DOC cannot strike or talk to the media because they are under a lifetime gag order.

Police in West Virginia get alot of state money. They have the toughest academy program in the country and their special unit (SWAT) is so well trained people from all over the world come to study their training techniques.

Wow, that's something I would have never guessed. At least with all the news coverage and media attention, I knew that teachers and cops get paid paltry sums compared to many other professions, but even a judge makes less than some freshly minted undergraduates from engineering programs? I'm assuming judges are former lawyers who've been elected/appointed after a decent amount of time spent litigating. Considering the cost of law school (probably over $100K, easy), and the debt that these guys are under when they get out of school, it would seem even judges might be living paycheck to paycheck (I'm slightly exaggerating, but not overly). I can see at least why some judges' impartiality could be questioned, if they're under such financial stress, and a correlation to why these positions have become so politicized. 

I've made quite a few assumptions up above, so if I'm missing something please fill it in.

[Belsnickel]

(03-02-2018, 03:52 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Wow, that's something I would have never guessed. At least with all the news coverage and media attention, I knew that teachers and cops get paid paltry sums compared to many other professions, but even a judge makes less than some freshly minted undergraduates from engineering programs? I'm assuming judges are former lawyers who've been elected/appointed after a decent amount of time spent litigating. Considering the cost of law school (probably over $100K, easy), and the debt that these guys are under when they get out of school, it would seem even judges might be living paycheck to paycheck (I'm slightly exaggerating, but not overly). I can see at least why some judges' impartiality could be questioned, if they're under such financial stress, and a correlation to why these positions have become so politicized. 

I've made quite a few assumptions up above, so if I'm missing something please fill it in.

I think those figures might be off: http://www.ncsc.org/~/media/Microsites/Files/Judicial%20Salaries/2018-Judicial-Salaries.ashx

WV is listed with a (I'm guessing) median salary for the lowest courts of around $126k.