What Americans thought of Jewish refugees on the eve of World War II

[Belsnickel]

(11-20-2015, 11:33 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I find it amusing that people like to compare Islam to Christianity even without radicalism involved. And what I find even more amusing is how many liberal democrats over here are trying to defend Islam when how many countries out there institute Sharia Law into the legislation? And worse how many Muslims would want to see it in place if it isnt already? Everything about Sharia Law is abhorrent to our modern civil liberties and our Bill of Rights which is the foundation of our Western societies.

That is actually not true. I'd suggest reading what all Sharia entails. I am not going to sit here and say it is all good, but there is a lot to it that isn't bad by modern standards. Countries that implement it, however, do no implement it in its entirety.

[BmorePat87]

(11-21-2015, 09:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That is actually not true. I'd suggest reading what all Sharia entails. I am not going to sit here and say it is all good, but there is a lot to it that isn't bad by modern standards. Countries that implement it, however, do no implement it in its entirety.

You're wrong, Matt. Bathing goes completely against our civil liberties! 

[StLucieBengal]

Sample of sharia law. Reply with the numbers of which ones you would like implemented.

Quote:1. The
mosque and state are not separate.

To this day, Islamic nations that
are deeply rooted
in shariah, like Iran and Saudi Arabia, do
not adequately separate the two realms, giving a lot of power to courts and
councils to ensure that legislation does not contradict the Quran (never mind
whose interpretation).

Most of the laws listed below come from this confusion.

Back-up article:
Mosque
and State

2. Jihad
may be waged against injustice or an unjust nation, as Islam defines the terms.

Classical texts say Islam is justice, and no Islam is injustice.
Therefore, a “just war” can be waged against a nation or people who do not
submit to Islam.

Yet we are told in the 1990 Cairo Declaration of Human
Rights, which is based on shariah, that humane rules must be followed (Article Three)
.
Does that article offer hope
that modern Islam can move past old Islam? Maybe.

However, the Quran, sacred traditions, classical law, and
historical Islam contradict or balance out some elements in Article Three.
Would there be a conflict between the old Islam and modern Islam, if war broke
out? Many Islamic clerics
issue fatwas
(religious rulings) to wage jihad.
Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital
and
The Early Muslim Community and
the Sword.

3. Jihad
may be waged to spread Islam and force conversions — a holy war.

Waging jihad to spread Islam and force conversions is a perfect description of
“holy war.” See Quran 8:39, 9:5, 9:11-12, 9:14, and 9:29; and then see 9:33; 61:9
and 48:28.

Yet, we have been told for
many years now that holy wars and forced conversions were never done in Islam. That’s
a myth imagined by Westerners.

However, read those
verses and click on the back-up articles:

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital,
The Mission of Muhammad and the
Sword, and The Early Muslim Community and
the Sword.

4. A
captive in jihad may be executed, enslaved, ransomed for money, exchanged for
other prisoners, or released freely.

Quran 47:4 and 33:25-27, 4:24 says those things (and the
last option — free release — is positive). Yet we are
told that in a jihad today everything must
be done humanely and justly.

However, the
back-up article, this fourth item, and the next four items in this list balance out that
claim. Would there be a conflict
between old Islam and
modern Islam, if war broke out?

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital
and Slavery

5. A
woman captive of jihad may be forced to have to sex with her captors (now
owners).

Quran 4:24 and
especially the sacred traditions and classical law allow this. The sacred traditions
say that while out on military campaigns under Muhammad’s leadership, jihadists
used to practice coitus interruptus with their female captives.

Women soldiers fighting terrorists today must be forewarned of the danger.

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital
and Slavery

6. Property
can be destroyed or confiscated during jihad.

Quran 59:2 and 59:5 discuss those rules. Sacred traditions
and classical law expand on the Quranic verses. Modern Islamic law officially
improves on the Quran: see Article Three of
the 1990 Cairo Declaration of Human Rights, which is nonetheless based on
shariah, but it outlaws wanton destruction of property. Would there be any conflict
between old Islam
and modern Islam in a war today?

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital and The Quran and the Sword

7. Jihad
may be waged to collect spoils.

Quran 8:1, 8:7, 8:41, and 48:20 show this clearly. Early
Islam followed the old Arab custom of raiding caravans, but as its military
grew, the raids were elevated to jihad. The spoils of war were coveted. Which Islam
would prevail in a war today — the old one or the modern one?

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital and The Quran and the Sword

8. A
second-class submission tax, called the jizyah,
must be imposed on Jews and Christians (and other religious minorities) living
in Islamic countries.

Quran 9:29
offers three options to Jews and Christians: (1) Fight and die;
(2) convert to Islam; (3) or keep their religion, but pay a tribute or
submission tax, the jizyah, while
living under Islam.

In Islamic
history, vanquished Jews and Christians became known as dhimmis. This word appears in Quran 9:8 and 9:10, meaning a
“treaty” or “oath,” but it can also mean those who are “condemned” “reviled” or
“reproved” (Quran 17:18, 17:22; 68:49). The word “submission” in Quran 9:29 can
also be translated as “humiliation,” “utterly humbled,” “contemptible” or
“vile.” It can mean “small” as opposed to “great.”

Islamic nations today still seek to impose this second-class religion tax.

Back-up
articles: Jihad
and Qital and The Quran and the Sword

9. Slavery
is allowed.

It is true that freeing slaves was done in original Islam
(Quran 5:89 and 24:33), and the Quran says to be kind to slaves (Quran 4:36),
but that is not the entire story.

In addition to those verses, Quran 4:24, 23:1-7; 33:52 allow
the institution. Muhammad owned slaves, even one who was black (so says a
sacred tradition). He was militarily and politically powerful during his later life
in Medina, but he never abolished slavery as an institution.

Officially,
Islamic nations have outlawed slavery (Article 11, which is still based on shariah). That
proves Islam can reform on at least one matter. Can it reform on the other
shariah laws? And we are told that “no other nation or religious group in
the world treated slaves better than the Muslims did.” The back-up
article and next two items in this list contradict that claim.

The legacy of slavery still runs deep in Islamic countries even today.

Back-up
article: Slavery

10. A
male owner may have sex with his slave-women, even prepubescent slave-girls.

See Quran 4:24 and 23:1-7; but it is classical law that permits sex
with prepubescent slave girls and describes them as such. Some Muslim
religious leaders and others still advocate this practice, taking the slaves as concubines (though sex
with prepubescent slave-girls is another matter).

Back-up
article: Slavery

11. Slaves
may be beaten.

That’s what sacred traditions and classical laws say. See Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of
Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery

Back-up
article: Slavery

12. Apostasy
laws, including imprisonment or execution, may be imposed on anyone who leaves
Islam (an apostate).

Normally this is a prescribed punishment, but it is also
political, since it is about freedom of religion. Surprisingly the Quran does
not cover punishing apostates down here on earth, though in the afterlife they
will be punished. Does this modern Islam can reform old Islam? Quran 4:88-89,
9:73-74, and 9:123, read in that sequence, might deal with earthly punishments.
Mainly, however, the sacred traditions and classical law permit harsh treatment
for anyone who leaves Islam.

Islamic courts and
laws still impose these
punishments today,
or religious scholars today argue for the law.

Back-up article: Freedom
of Religion

13. Blasphemy
laws, including imprisonment or execution, may be imposed on critics of Islam
or Muhammad.

These verses should be read in historical sequence, for they
show that as Islam’s military power increased, the harsh treatment of mockers
and critics also intensified, as follows: Quran 3:186, 33:57-61, 9:61-66, 9:73
and 9:123. Sacred traditions, classical laws, and historical Islam are
unambiguous about the punishments, recording the people, often their names, who
were assassinated for mocking Muhammad and the Quran.

Islamic nations and pockets of
Islam in non-Muslim countries still impose these punishments
today.

Back-up article: Free
Speech

Punishments

14. Drinkers
and gamblers may be flogged.

Quran 2:219, 4:43, and 5:90-91, in that sequence, show that
Islam gradually prohibited alcohol. The last passage also prohibits “gaming” of
sorts. The sacred traditions and classical law discuss punishing gamblers and
alcoholics. One tradition says to execute unrepentant alcoholics who do not
stop. But usually drinkers were flogged forty or eighty times, with garments,
palm branches, or sandals in early Islam.

Islamic countries can impose these punishments today,
or religious and legal scholars still argue for it.

Back-up article: Muhammad, the Quran, and
Prohibition

15. An
injured plaintiff (a private citizen) has the options of forgiving or exacting
legal and literal revenge — physical eye for physical eye.

Categorized as qisas (like for like), Quran 5:45 is the
main verse (and see 2:187-189). Sacred traditions and classical laws spell out
which punishments should be inflicted on which offenses.

Islamic courts, depending on which way the plaintiff
directs, today may ask a doctor to surgically remove an eye or disfigure the
face or body in
some other way. Currently, qisas can be applied to children
in Iran.

The whole purpose of courts is to remove the punishment of
wrongs and injuries from the plaintiffs who are private citizens; otherwise, blood feuds and personal revenge make
punishments uneven — never mind excessive.

Back-up article: Law of Retaliation

16. The hand of a male or female thief may be cut off.

Quran 5:38 imposes this punishment. The traditions and classical law clarify that the theft has to be a valuable item; or mutilation might not be inflicted during a famine,

But amputation is still done today in Islamic countries and argued for by religious leaders or
legal scholars to understand it as if it is still
valid.

Back-up article: Thieves, Give Muhammad a Hand!

17. A
highway robber may be crucified or his alternate hand and foot cut off.

Quran 5:33 permit these punishments. Yes, from that verse
other punishments can be inflicted, but the point here is that execution for first-degree
murder with aggravated circumstances is one thing, but mutilation and
crucifixion is excessive.

Some Islamic nations can
still impose them
today, or religious and
legal scholars still
argue for understanding the punishments,
as if they are still valid.

Back-up article: Crucifixion and Mutilation

18.
Homosexuals may be imprisoned, flogged, or executed.

Surprisingly, the Quran is not all that clear on this
subject, but the traditions and classical laws are.

Islamic nations to this day still impose those punishments, and
religious leaders still
argue for harsh
punishments.

Back-up article: Homosexuality

19.
Fornicators may be flogged.

Quran 24:2 says this. The hadith and classical laws can
impose additional penalties like exile of the male for a year.

Modern Islamic nations still inflict this penalty, and religious or legal scholars still
argue for it.

Back-up article: Adultery
and Fornication

20.
Adulterers may be stoned to death.

The verse that says to stone adulterers to death went
missing from the Quran, so says Umar, a companion of Muhammad and the second
caliph (ruled 634-644). But he left no doubt that this penalty was done under
Muhammad’s direction, and the sacred traditions and classical laws confirm it.
But a few rules of evidence must be followed, like confession of the adulterer
or four eyewitnesses. In some interpretations of the law, if a
woman is raped, but cannot produce four just and pious men who witnessed it,
then she is slandering the alleged rapist (or gang rapists) — never mind that
the four just and pious eyewitnesses did nothing to stop it, but stood there
and watched it.

Some modern Islamic nations still do this, and religious and legal scholars argue for it.

Back-up article: Adultery
and Fornication

21.
False accusers of sexual crimes may be flogged eighty times.

Quran 24:1-4 speak of corporal punishment for sexual sins.
Verse 4 says that if an accuser cannot produce four eyewitnesses to corroborate
his accusation, then he will be flogged (see Quran 24:13).

Some modern Islamic nations can still
impose the penalty for slander, and religious scholars still
argue for it.

Back-up article: Adultery
and Fornication

Marital,
Domestic, and Women’s Issues

Quran 2:228 and 4:34
states that mankind is superior to womankind in a variety of legal and domestic
contexts. Quran 2:223 says
wives are fields, and their husbands can go into them whenever and however they
like. How does this inferiority work out in the law and society?

22. A woman
inherits half what a man does.

Quran 4:11 says
it, and the hadith (traditions) and classical law confirm it.

Modern Islamic nations still
do this, and religious leaders still argue for it.

Back-up article: Women’s
Status and Roles

23. A
woman’s testimony in a court of law counts half of a man’s testimony, since she
might “forget.”

Quran 2:282 says
it in the context of business law. But the hadith (traditions) explains that
women’s minds are deficient; classical law expands this curtailment to other areas
than business.

Modern Islamic nations still
do this, and religious scholars still
argue for
it.

Back-up article: Women’s
Status and Roles

24. A
man may legally and irrevocably divorce his wife, outside of a court of law, by
correctly pronouncing three times “you are divorced.”

Quran 2:229 says
this, and the traditions and classical law explain and confirm it. A judge in a
modern Islamic country will ensure that the husband did not speak from a fit of
irrational rage (anger is okay) or intoxication, for example. Then the court
will validate the divorce, not daring to overturn it, since the Quran says so.

Sometimes this homemade and irrevocable divorce
produces a lot of regret in
the couple and manipulation from
the husband in Islam today.

Back-up article: Divorce
and Remarriage

25. A
wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man, has sex
with him, and then this second man divorces her.

Quran 2:230 says this, and the
traditions and classical law confirm it. Supposedly, this rule is designed to
prevent easy divorce (see the previous point),
but it produces a lot of pain, in Muslims today.

Back-up
article: Divorce
and Remarriage

26. Husbands
may hit their wives.

Quran 4:34 says it, and the traditions and classical law confirm it. There is a sequence of steps a husband follows before he can hit her, but not surprisingly this rule creates all sorts of abuse and confusion
in Islamic society today.

Back-up article: Domestic
Violence

27. A
man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

Quran 4:3 (and
33:50-52) allow this, but only if a man can take care of them. The traditions
and classical law confirm it. Modern Muslims still push for this old marital arrangement even in the USA, and many Islamic nations still
allow it. But some Muslims are fighting polygamy. The
hadith (traditions) paints a picture of Muhammad’s household that was full of
strife between the wives.

Back-up article: Polygamy

28. A
man may simply get rid of one of his “undesirable” wives.

Quran 4:128 says
this. The traditions say about the verse that the wife whom Muhammad wanted to
get rid of was “huge” and “fat.” She gave up her turn to his favorite
girl-bride Aisha. He kept the corpulent wife. There is heartbreak in Islam today.

Back-up article: Polygamy

29. A mature
man may marry a prepubescent girl.

Quran 65:1-4, particularly verse 4, assumes, but does not command, the practice. The hadith says Aisha was six years old when she was engaged to Muhammad (he was in his fifties), and their marriage was consummated when she was nine. The hadith indicate she was prepubescent at nine. She never did bear him any children. Classical law says a father may give away his prepubescent daughter, but she also has a few rights.

Officially many Islamic nations have raised the legal marriage age, but pockets in the Islamic
world still follow this old custom. The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia okays marriage to ten-year-old girls. Work
is still needed to be done for the rights of girl brides,
particularly for their sexual health.

Back-up article: Marriage to Prepubescent Girls

30. A
woman must wear a head covering and maybe a facial veil, according to sound traditions
and authoritative classical law.

Quran 24:31, 33:53 and 33:59 are not as clear about the veil as
one might first think. The verses say to dress modestly, but should the head be
covered or just the neckline? What about the face (except the eyes)? Thus, modern Muslims are now in a big debate over the veil. However,
the traditions and classical law are clearer than the Quran: the veil over the
face (except the eyes).

Back-up
article: Veils

[GMDino]

(11-21-2015, 03:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sample of sharia law.   Reply with the numbers of which ones you would like implemented.  

Cite...your....source.

[BmorePat87]

(11-21-2015, 04:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Cite...your....source.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/james-m-arlandson-thirty-shariah-laws-that-are-bad-for-all-societies

[GMDino]

(11-21-2015, 04:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/james-m-arlandson-thirty-shariah-laws-that-are-bad-for-all-societies

Glad someone did it.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-21-2015, 04:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Cite...your....source.

Haha I guess the direct cites from the Quran wasnt enough

Feel free to respond with which you would want to live by....

[Vas Deferens]

(11-21-2015, 05:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Haha I guess the direct cites from the Quran wasnt enough

Feel free to respond with which you would want to live by....

Do you understand why citing a source is important?

I'm assuming you do.  Also assuming you know why one would misrepresent or omit a citation. 

[GMDino]

(11-21-2015, 05:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Haha I guess the direct cites from the Quran wasnt enough

Feel free to respond with which you would want to live by....

That had nothing to do with it.

You tendency to use racist sites as your sources was.  I haven't had time to check out the author OR his interpretations of the verses.

But since you agree with him you assume it is the God's truth.  Just like with the video that was easily debunked.

[*bfine32*]

(11-21-2015, 03:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sample of sharia law.   Reply with the numbers of which ones you would like implemented.  

I could roll with 24

[Belsnickel]

(11-21-2015, 03:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're wrong, Matt. Bathing goes completely against our civil liberties! 

To be fair, free healthcare and communal support for those that need it are against the values of some, I suppose.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-21-2015, 06:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: That had nothing to do with it.

You tendency to use racist sites as your sources was.  I haven't had time to check out the author OR his interpretations of the verses.

But since you agree with him you assume it is the God's truth.  Just like with the video that was easily debunked.

Lol racist sites

That's the most overused word on these boards.

The ever changing definition of racist.... It has more changes than rich women in Beverly Hills.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-21-2015, 07:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: To be fair, free healthcare and communal support for those that need it are against the values of some, I suppose.

I think it's more about where it comes from... Not whether we should help the less fortunate.

[fredtoast]

I oppose Sharia law.

I also oppose Christian based laws.

The interesting part is how much they have in common.

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2015, 07:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think it's more about where it comes from...   

For once I agree with Lucie.

To many people claim they want to help the poor.........as long as they don't have to contribute anything.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-21-2015, 07:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: For once I agree with Lucie.

To many people claim they want to help the poor.........as long as they don't have to contribute anything.

I think this is why people support the government doing it versus individually. I think you can meet in the middle and use local gov/people or even statewide. Get the Feds out of it which usually just take up funds to push paper around anyway.

I don't like any gov solution for this but it's just not a realistic option at this point.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-21-2015, 07:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I oppose Sharia law.

I also oppose Christian based laws.

The interesting part is how much they have in common.

No law should be based on religion. Religion can influence a person on a moral level. But we need secular laws.

[GMDino]

(11-21-2015, 07:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol racist sites

That's the most overused word on these boards.  

The ever changing definition of racist....   It has more changes than rich women in Beverly Hills.

I posted the definition...do you disagree with it?

And yes...you have cited racist sites and people as your sources in the past.  You could just own it...but you won't.  You'll just move the goal line again.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2015, 12:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: I posted the definition...do you disagree with it?

And yes...you have cited racist sites and people as your sources in the past.  You could just own it...but you won't.  You'll just move the goal line again.

Who gets to determine if they are racist?

[Vas Deferens]

(11-21-2015, 07:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol racist sites

That's the most overused word on these boards.  

The ever changing definition of racist....   It has more changes than rich women in Beverly Hills.

LOL is the most over-used word on these boards.  Guess who the perpetrator is?  Buy a ***** thesaurus.