What "crisis" on Mexican border?

[fredtoast]

Illegal crossing on the Mexican border are at the lowest levels EVER.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2017/12/05/wheres-the-immigration-crisis-u-s-border-patrol-reports-illegal-border-crossings-at-record-low/#61943dd94b73

So why all the screaming about the "crisis" on our southern border? Because Trump has to sell hate and fear to get re-elected. Trump is a brilliant sales man and he knows how to motivate his base. He has convinced his followers that the biggest threat to them is "losing their country".

Trump has not been able to repeal and replace the ACA.

His tax cuts are not "supercharging" the economy the way he suggested they would, and while popular with some people they are also seen as a gift to the wealthy by many.

He has some traction with North Korea right now, but I think he realizes he is not going to get what he wants without giving up a lot. Once his base sees that he can not get what he wants just by threatening, and will actually have to negotiate and give up some things they will not be as impressed.

So that leaves his last big selling point as "protecting us from Mexico". Even though illegal crossing are at an all time low. And even though illegal crossing only account for about a third of illegal immigrants Trump still has to sale the border issue as a "crisis".

I wonder if there will be any Republicans brave enough to stand up against this. Republicans used to be opposed to wasting billions in government spending to fix a crisis that does not exist, but everything has changed. They just don't seem to care anymore.

[*bfine32*]

Stupid Trump has illegal border crossing at a record low. If only he knew how illegal border crossings were supposed to work

[SunsetBengal]

I'm confused. Was the OP about a non-crisis on the boarder? Or was it just airing a laundry list of things the OP doesn't like about the President?

[*bfine32*]

(05-07-2018, 09:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm confused.  Was the OP about a non-crisis on the boarder?  Or was it just airing a laundry list of things the OP doesn't like about the President?  

He was just saving time. Eventually any thread started in the forum turns into a laundry list of what folks don't like about POTUS. He just started it off that way,

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2018, 09:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm confused.  Was the OP about a non-crisis on the boarder?  Or was it just airing a laundry list of things the OP doesn't like about the President?  

(05-07-2018, 09:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He was just saving time. Eventually any thread started in the forum turns into a laundry list of what folks don't like about POTUS. He just started it off that way,

Let me lead you by the hands.

First I showed you how there was no "Crisis" regarding illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican border.  Then I explained why our President was lying so much about it.  Because there would be no need for a thread explaining to everyone that there is no crisis on the border if so many people were not falling for this story from the President.  So it is all part of one major issue.  

And since some people can not even understand the concept of criticizing Trump I explained why he was leqning so much on this lie to rally his base.  It is because he is not really succeeding on his other promises.

Sorry you guys could not make the connection.

Understand now?

[Luvnit2]

It sure is fun watching libs whine about the POTUS. I know I thought Obama was the worst President in history and suffered for 8 long years. Now we get to watch the other side be irrelevant for years. The left has become unhinged, have no platform other than bash President Trump who just takes the hits and turns them in his favor over and over again. He is doing exactly what he campaigned on, create jobs being #1 priority stimulating the economy. Improve the GDP, improve border security (his goal is noone crosses due to human and drug trafficking), remove ISIS and fix mess Obama created with NK.

Obama told the biggest lies that impacted hundreds of millions of people personally. You will save $2500 on your health insurance and keep your doctor. Huge lies that killed the middle class financially as Obama plan made middle class pay for health insurance for those deemed to not be able to afford it. I find the morality of baby killers a joke, they all need  to look in the mirror as they live a lie die daily pretending it is OK to kill unborn babies, if not they have serious morale character flaws.

[GMDino]

There's a lot to unpack here.  Let's get started!

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It sure is fun watching libs whine about the POTUS. I know I thought Obama was the worst President in history and suffered for 8 long years.

Opinion!  but at least it's honest opinion!

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Now we get to watch the other side be irrelevant for years.

Not sure what this means.  The GOP has proven to be very ineffective when they are "relevant" (in control of congress) while the Democrats clean up their messes.

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The left has become unhinged, have no platform other than bash President Trump

I suppose if one chooses to ignore that Trump's "agenda" is just to try and prove he is smarter and better than Obama that would seem like a sensible sentence to write.  For those of us in the real world we see a current POTUS that seems to form policy via a tweet after watching Fox and Friends.  That makes it very difficult to know if he is serious and how it should be responded to.

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: who just takes the hits and turns them in his favor over and over again. .

If you mean bad approval ratings, record high turnover in appointees and more indictments in two years than any POTUS ever...sure.

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: He is doing exactly what he campaigned on, create jobs being #1 priority stimulating the economy. Improve the GDP, improve border security (his goal is noone crosses due to human and drug trafficking), remove ISIS and fix mess Obama created with NK.

Do you have ANY statistics to back any of that up?  Or, better yet, anything Trump has proposed or done to reach those goals?

Because all of that...all of it...was trending that way before Trump was ever elected.  Simply maintaining the status quo isn't something to give him a lot of credit for.

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Obama told the biggest lies that impacted hundreds of millions of people personally. You will save $2500 on your health insurance and keep your doctor. Huge lies that killed the middle class financially as Obama plan made middle class pay for health insurance for those deemed to not be able to afford it.

Yes, because bankruptcies from medical bills wasn't destroying anyone's lives before the ACA.

Luckily Trump kept that "campaign promise" of better, cheaper health care!  Right?  Anyone?

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find the morality of baby killers a joke, they all need  to look in the mirror as they live a lie die daily pretending it is OK to kill unborn babies, if not they have serious morale character flaws.

Whoa!  Quick change of gears there!  Seems abortion is something you oppose to the point of hating your fellow man!  Interesting "moral" take there.

What about the morals of people who have affairs and lie every day to everyone?

Are they a little better?  Or do we have to pick and choose which sins we will hold "our" side accountable to?

[Griever]

(05-08-2018, 10:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: Whoa!  Quick change of gears there!  Seems abortion is something you oppose to the point of hating your fellow man!  Interesting "moral" take there.

What about the morals of people who have affairs and lie every day to everyone?

Are they a little better?  Or do we have to pick and choose which sins we will hold "our" side accountable to?

This is someone on the right you are talking to

they only care about the fetus, and once it is born, they stop caring about it

pro-lifers should change it to pro-fetus

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It sure is fun watching libs whine about the POTUS. I know I thought Obama was the worst President in history and suffered for 8 long years. Now we get to watch the other side be irrelevant for years. The left has become unhinged, have no platform other than bash President Trump who just takes the hits and turns them in his favor over and over again. He is doing exactly what he campaigned on, create jobs being #1 priority stimulating the economy. Improve the GDP, improve border security (his goal is noone crosses due to human and drug trafficking), remove ISIS and fix mess Obama created with NK.

Obama told the biggest lies that impacted hundreds of millions of people personally. You will save $2500 on your health insurance and keep your doctor. Huge lies that killed the middle class financially as Obama plan made middle class pay for health insurance for those deemed to not be able to afford it. I find the morality of baby killers a joke, they all need  to look in the mirror as they live a lie die daily pretending it is OK to kill unborn babies, if not they have serious morale character flaws.

Unemployment dropped more under Obama than under Trump.  The Dow rose more under Obama than under Trump.  Trump was handed an economy that had been growing steadily and generating record corporate profits.  Trump just kept it going.  He did not have to clean up a Republican disaster like Obama did.

The ACA provided WORKING people help with health care costs because EVERYONE agreed that the old system was broken.  The ACA did not destroy the middle class.  That is an absurd claim.  Health care premiums have gone up, but no faster than they were rising before the ACA.  And so far the Republicans have not been able to enact a better plan.

Trump ran on a vague plan to "Make America Great Again".  Part of it was financial (Want to know how many coal miners have gotten their jobs back?).  But a big part of it was also cultural.  He wanted to save everyone from the dark skinned Mexicans and Muslims.  He lied constantly to demonize them.  His base was motivated more by fear of losing their cultural identity than suffering financially.  

"The Wall" is one of the biggest boondoggles ever. 

Illegal border crossings only account for about a third of illegal aliens, yet at a time when illegal border crossings are at a historic low many of his followers still buy the story that there is a "crisis" on the border that is going to destroy us all if we don't build a multi billion dollar wall that will not stop anyone with a ladder.

[hollodero]

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It sure is fun watching libs whine about the POTUS. I know I thought Obama was the worst President in history and suffered for 8 long years. 

Glad you made it out ok... :) I think a big diference is you suffered because of policies you didn't agree with. The actual suffering only partly consists of that aspect.

Meaning, people opposed to Trump also suffer through a record breakiong number of untruths, a chaotic adminstration including very questionable hirings, severe ethics breaches, the slandering of law officials, the perpetuation of conspiracies, inflammatory rhetorics, ludicrous personal conduct, the whole Russia aspect (big deal even if Trump were innocent), asinine tweets, a severely damaged reputaton worldwide - AND also policies.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-08-2018, 12:04 PM)hollodero Wrote: Glad you made it out ok... :) I think a big diference is you suffered because of policies you didn't agree with. The actual suffering only partly consists of that aspect.

Meaning, people opposed to Trump also suffer through a record breakiong number of untruths, a chaotic adminstration including very questionable hirings, severe ethics breaches, the slandering of law officials, the perpetuation of conspiracies, inflammatory rhetorics, ludicrous personal conduct, the whole Russia aspect (big deal even if Trump were innocent), asinine tweets, a severely damaged reputaton worldwide - AND also policies.

Ummm, our taxes have been lowered, immigration laws enforced, economy up, about to see the end of the Korean War, there is no Russia thing, and our rep is just fine....leading peace in Korea will do that for you.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 12:23 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ummm, our taxes have been lowered, immigration laws enforced, economy up, about to see the end of the Korean War, there is no Russia thing, and our rep is just fine....leading peace in Korea will do that for you.

Lower taxes have not "supercharged" the economy.  All they have done is massively increased the deficit projections.

Immigration laws being enforced are having no effect on anyone other than the families being torn apart.

The economy has been going up long before Trump took office.

We are not about to give up what North Korea wants to de-nuclearize.

Every elected official in every party agrees that Russia tampered with our last presidential election despite Trumps claim that it never happened.

[*Nately120*]

(05-07-2018, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Stupid Trump has illegal border crossing at a record low. If only he knew how illegal border crossings were supposed to work

I'm pretty sure a guy who has hired as many illegals as Trump has an idea of how these things work.

(05-08-2018, 09:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It sure is fun watching libs whine about the POTUS. I know I thought Obama was the worst President in history and suffered for 8 long years. Now we get to watch the other side be irrelevant for years. The left has become unhinged, have no platform other than bash President Trump

In all fairness, bashing Obama seemed to be the best campaign strategy for the GOP so why shouldn't the left wing take notes now that Trump is in office?  You yourself admit that you were convinced Obama was the worst president in history and that his 8 year term was absolute hell on earth, so the left wing is going to do the same thing for the 4-8 years Trump is in office.  And yes, it's fun watching the left convince themselves that this country is a total hellhole just like the right wing did from 2008-2016.

It's astounding how much people just love to be miserable.  If you listen to the complaints then you'll be convinced that 2008-2024 will go down in history as the absolute worst time to be alive in this country.  My god, why couldn't I have been born full of AIDS in Africa, or maybe lived during a time when people died of old age at 32?

Waah waah waaahhhhhhh, I had to suffer through 8 years of Obama!  I need some sort of participation trophy for being such a good trooper!

But anyways, political success is based upon bashing the other side, not actually saying anything good about your own.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-08-2018, 12:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lower taxes have not "supercharged" the economy.  All they have done is massively increased the deficit projections.

Immigration laws being enforced are having no effect on anyone other than the families being torn apart.

The economy has been going up long before Trump took office.

We are not about to give up what North Korea wants to de-nuclearize.

Every elected official in every party agrees that Russia tampered with our last presidential election despite Trumps claim that it never happened.

I have seen increased business since the tax cuts went into effect. So something is giving people more money to spend.

We see a direct effect of Enforcement of immigration laws here and it’s wonderful. A lot of people are either leaving or getting affairs in order.

Economy is on steroids now, plus now everyone can relax since trump is dropping regulations as well.

Some Russians bought some Facebook ads for black lives matter in hopes to divide us.

[fredtoast]

I see we are starting to get off track again.

Let me ask all of you fans of the wall why you think Trump is talking so much about a "crisis" on the border at the same time that illegal border crossings are at an all time low? Especially since illegal border crossings only account for about a third of all illegal immigrants in the US.

What is your explanation for that?

[hollodero]

(05-08-2018, 12:23 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ummm, our taxes have been lowered, immigration laws enforced, economy up, about to see the end of the Korean War, there is no Russia thing, and our rep is just fine....leading peace in Korea will do that for you.

These are policies. Sure liberals are against those and "suffer" like you folks suffered under Obama. I talked things outside of that.

Since you mentioned them. If there's peace on the Korean peninsula, I will give Trump credit for that. I don't want to be opposed to anything just for the sake of being opposed. But there's such a long way to go there, and right now I see the Koreas as driving force towards peace, not so much Trump. He does get some credit, but as of now I can't see how it can be that much credit still. We'll have to wait and see. That's even what Trump hinself says in one of the rare moments he acts reasonable. You actually give him more credit than Trump himself does, something I thought to be impossible :)

Also, no expert on taxation, but these tax cuts are one of the most bizarre things for me. Not just for the way it was done, although I couldn't imagine laws being made that way, with last-minute scribblings on the side and whatnot, but aside from that. Trump cut taxes for corporations and the super rich, and then gave some tiny crumbs to everyone else. And if it wasn't clear before, he made those cuts non-permanent. And drove the deficit up in new heights, which before the election was the very reason to call Obama's US in turmoil and a disaster. And yet you're wiling to celebrate because some corporations give some additional crumbs to people, and Paul Ryan celebrates an additional 1,50 Dollars per week for one secretary :) Also, the timing of the cuts defies every economic logic, you don't incentivize in good economic times. If the next recession comes, you'll have no wiggle room for stimulus packages any longer.
The economy itself was inherited. Obama laid the ground work for that, love him or hate him, but the development started through his term and he actually defied a major financial crisis. You can't credit Trump for the economy without crediting Obama too.

As for Russia, there certainly is a thing. They meddled in your election, hacked into the power grid, obviously (unsuccessfully) attempted to hack voting machines, there are I don't know around 30 indictments, there's Manafort and Flynn as undeclared foreign agents and campaign aids, there's an investigation that, no matter what Nunes said, had some merits aside from the Steele dossier, which btw. is not "debunked". I once made a huge list of shady Russian deaings, meetings etc., if you still refute to acknowledge the point I will go look for it :) - In the end, you can say Trump is innocent (whatever makes you so sure about that), but yóu can't seriously claim there's "nothing".

(05-08-2018, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I see we are starting to get off track again.  

I apologize.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 12:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We see a direct effect of Enforcement of immigration laws here and it’s wonderful. 

What effect specifically?  

What benefit is there to these deportations?

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 12:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Some Russians bought some Facebook ads for black lives matter in hopes to divide us.

Is that all you know about the issue?

Really?

[*Nately120*]

(05-08-2018, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I see we are starting to get off track again.  

Let me ask all of you fans of the wall why you think Trump is talking so much about a "crisis" on the border at the same time that illegal border crossings are at an all time low?  Especially since illegal border crossings only account for about a third of all illegal immigrants in the US.

What is your explanation for that?

Fear and threats sell.  Just think how much easier it would be to sell a man a car if you could convince him first that if he didn't buy said car that his wife and daughter would be raped!  Much like infomercials, politicians create symptoms and then sell themselves to you as the cure.  Illegal immigrants are dangerous and invading, and now that I've convinced you of that you need me, the guy who will save you from that thing you didn't know was a threat until I told you about it.  Pretty convenient, eh?

That's what infomercials do.  They convince you that making a pancake is a giant pain in the ass and you can't do it right before giving you their solution to that pancake problem you just realized you have!  Thanks a lot, Pancake Plus!  Er, I mean, President!


EDIT: Oh, I just remembered those nefarious links you click that take you to a page that says "YOU HAVE 9854958 VIRUSES ON YOUR COMPUTER, CLICK HERE TO FIX THEM NOW!!!!" Classic. Threaten and provide solution to initial threat. That's some good marketing. Trust me, you have a problem. Trust me, I can fix it.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 12:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  plus now everyone can relax since trump is dropping regulations as well.  

Because what could possibly go wrong with lax regulation of the financial industry?

All you sheep just keep trusting them with your money.  Why could we possibly need any regulations on those guys.  They are rich.  Rich people never do bad things if they are not regulated by the government, right?